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Ratings Vs QPR

MOM

  • Lloris

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Dier

    Votes: 49 10.5%
  • Kaboul

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Verts

    Votes: 6 1.3%
  • Rose

    Votes: 11 2.4%
  • Bentaleb

    Votes: 3 0.6%
  • Capoue

    Votes: 43 9.2%
  • Chadli

    Votes: 93 19.9%
  • Eriksen

    Votes: 12 2.6%
  • Lamela

    Votes: 245 52.4%
  • Adebayor

    Votes: 6 1.3%
  • Dembele

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Kane

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Soldado

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    468

Spurs_Bear

Well-Known Member
Jan 7, 2009
17,094
22,286
Pochettino hardly set the world a blaze in an attacking sense at Espanyol. And despite having all these 20m+ footballers in every part of the team, and a supposedly more attacking ethos, over the course of their time in the EPL, AVB averaged 1.5 goals per game, Pochettino 1.35, and AVB averaged 1.8 ppg and Pochettino 1.38.

So AVB has basically outscored and outpointed Pochettino. And AVB was still above Pochettino in the league when he was sacked.

This is the worst paragraph you have ever posted in your entire life. There is so much wrong with it, even @yankspurs wont agree with your rose tinted glasses.

The only people that decided Poch's Soton players were 20m+ players is the silly ****s that bought them. There is no way that Lallana, is worth what he was bought for. Lovren is no better than what they already have, and again the £20m+ that was paid for him is a ridiculously inflated price.

So you've discredited Poch because he had a load of £20m+ players and didn't get them firing, yet you described Torres as a player who 'decided he didn't want to be good anymore', taking the blame solely away from Villas-Botch? Seriously?

Your last sentence. Wow Beece, just wow.
 

shaqTHFC

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2011
1,546
807
I think there's possibly some validity in what you say in terms of approach, but I think also both have been influenced by circumstance. AVB's Porto were incredibly frugal defensively, and that was almost certainly in part down to his methods, but they were also the highest scoring team and finished with a GD of +57 in 30 games - also in part down to his methods.

AVB's Chelsea did not have the Oscar's & Hazards, £50m Torres decided not to be good any more (a decision he has since stuck to with every subsequent manager) and it was AVB who played Sturridge more than any of his predecessors, though he was still a novice then.

Pochettino hardly set the world a blaze in an attacking sense at Espanyol. And despite having all these 20m+ footballers in every part of the team, and a supposedly more attacking ethos, over the course of their time in the EPL, AVB averaged 1.5 goals per game, Pochettino 1.35, and AVB averaged 1.8 ppg and Pochettino 1.38.

So AVB has basically outscored and outpointed Pochettino. And AVB was still above Pochettino in the league when he was sacked.

We scored exactly the same amount of goals under AVB in 12-13 (66) than we had under Redknapp in 11-12. And that team had lost Modric, VDV and Adebayor had fucked about pre season and been woefully off form during. Yes, Bale upped his output, but this was IMO entirely down to AVB figuring out that he was a forward, not a fucking left winger as "they" had continually told Redknapp.

I think managers are often at the whim of fortune in regards to the players they inherit/lose/acquire. In terms of players I think AVB didn't have much luck at both Cheslea or Spurs. Pochettino IMO, has lucked into a good set at the right time at both Southampton and Spurs, yet still didn't outperform AVB for goals or points.

I also think that paying more attention to and managing risk is what has made some of the great managers great and was one of the reservations I had with Pochettino (and people like Martinez).

With regards to the bolded part, I think there are a few things worth noting.

1.) Pochettino took over a bottom half PL team midway through a season, and thus had a much lower starting point in terms of quality compared to AVB, and even at their best the Southampton squad did not have as much quality as ours so the stats are more likely to be in AVBs favour there but it doesn't mean AVB>Poch.

2.) "All these 20m+ footballers in every part of the team" - unless I'm mistaken, only Lallana and Shaw went for over 20m which is hardly all over the team. I guess you could argue Schneiderlin's value but that's still 3/11 players in the starting lineup.

3.) I don't think judging on players supposed values is particularly valid anyway. Imo, Lallana and Shaw are only 20m+ players because Southampton negotiated their sales well and they're English. Not many of their players imo have/had a market value of 20m+. Pochettino was also responsible for making these players better and increasing their value too, just like AVB was given credit for doing so with Bale.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
This is the worst paragraph you have ever posted in your entire life. There is so much wrong with it, even @yankspurs wont agree with your rose tinted glasses.

The only people that decided Poch's Soton players were 20m+ players is the silly ****s that bought them. There is no way that Lallana, is worth what he was bought for. Lovren is no better than what they already have, and again the £20m+ that was paid for him is a ridiculously inflated price.

So you've discredited Poch because he had a load of £20m+ players and didn't get them firing, yet you described Torres as a player who 'decided he didn't want to be good anymore', taking the blame solely away from Villas-Botch? Seriously?

Your last sentence. Wow Beece, just wow.

Ignore the 20m player thing and my point still very much stands. AVB still out scored and out pointed pochettino over an identical amount of games and with pretty comparable teams (which is why I mentioned the 20m thing)

His Porto team were still the top scoring team in their league.

The argument being AVB is all about defending and poch all about attacking.

The facts dispute that claim.

And the point about Torres is that AVB isn't the only coach who has failed to get Torres working suggesting it is Torres not the coaches.
 

Spurs_Bear

Well-Known Member
Jan 7, 2009
17,094
22,286
Ignore the 20m player thing and my point still very much stands. AVB still out scored and out pointed pochettino over an identical amount of games and with pretty comparable teams (which is why I mentioned the 20m thing)

And the point about Torres is that AVB isn't the only coach who has failed to get Torres working suggesting it is Torres not the coaches.

No he didn't you monster. TOTTENHAM outscored SOUTHAMPTON. And the amount of data you are using is yet again FAR TOO SMALL.

PRETTY COMPARABLE TEAMS?????????

I've missed you so much you unbelievable nincompoop.
 

Khilari

Plumber. Sort of.
Jun 19, 2008
3,461
5,287
We scored exactly the same amount of goals under AVB in 12-13 (66) than we had under Redknapp in 11-12. And that team had lost Modric, VDV and Adebayor had fucked about pre season and been woefully off form during. Yes, Bale upped his output, but this was IMO entirely down to AVB figuring out that he was a forward, not a fucking left winger as "they" had continually told Redknapp.

Sorry to say this but you are essentially pulling out conclusions from solitary statistics, that we all know can be displayed to essentially support any side of an argument.

Firstly, why are we talking about AVB? Secondly, we as a team played some of the most despondent football I've seen in 5 years at White Hart Lane under AVB. I'm not sure which stats support what is essentially something you see whilst in the stands. We had no fluidity, no drive and sadly were extremely lucky that Bale hit World Class form when he did. Yes, AVB may have had a hand in this and certainly his support of Gareth Bale was excellent and one key component to his success. But the rest of the team were dire. I enjoyed watching Tim Sherwood's team much more even though there was a clear lack of a Plan B.
 

SpursDave88

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
2,193
5,831
Sorry to say this but you are essentially pulling out conclusions from solitary statistics, that we all know can be displayed to essentially support any side of an argument.

Firstly, why are we talking about AVB? Secondly, we as a team played some of the most despondent football I've seen in 5 years at White Hart Lane under AVB. I'm not sure which stats support what is essentially something you see whilst in the stands. We had no fluidity, no drive and sadly were extremely lucky that Bale hit World Class form when he did. Yes, AVB may have had a hand in this and certainly his support of Gareth Bale was excellent and one key component to his success. But the rest of the team were dire. I enjoyed watching Tim Sherwood's team much more even though there was a clear lack of a Plan B.

Or plan A
 

sloth

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2005
9,018
6,900
Ignore the 20m player thing and my point still very much stands. AVB still out scored and out pointed pochettino over an identical amount of games and with pretty comparable teams (which is why I mentioned the 20m thing)

His Porto team were still the top scoring team in their league.

The argument being AVB is all about defending and poch all about attacking.

The facts dispute that claim.

And the point about Torres is that AVB isn't the only coach who has failed to get Torres working suggesting it is Torres not the coaches.

The teams are not comparable at all. Ours is much, much better than theirs! We may disagree from time to time, but I usually have respect for your opinion, but on this you've completely lost the plot.
 

SlickMongoose

Copacetic
Feb 27, 2005
6,258
5,043
I'd say it's still an interesting question whether Southampton's team last season was a bunch of top class players (now being bought by bigger teams for lots of money) underperforming because of their manager, or whether the manager was making some OK players look good.

It can't be both, else surely they'd have finished higher.
 

CJMurray

****
Aug 3, 2011
3,565
10,563
I'd say it's still an interesting question whether Southampton's team last season was a bunch of top class players (now being bought by bigger teams for lots of money) underperforming because of their manager, or whether the manager was making some OK players look good.

It can't be both, else surely they'd have finished higher.

No way Southampton could have finished any higher than 8th last season. They had a decent squad sprinkled with several good, but second tier players (Lallana, Schneiderlin etc).
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
The teams are not comparable at all. Ours is much, much better than theirs! We may disagree from time to time, but I usually have respect for your opinion, but on this you've completely lost the plot.

Strange then that we were trying to sign nearly half of their team this summer.
 

Bulletspur

The Reasonable Advocate
Match Thread Admin
Oct 17, 2006
10,690
25,246
No way Southampton could have finished any higher than 8th last season. They had a decent squad sprinkled with several good, but second tier players (Lallana, Schneiderlin etc).
So why do we seem to be busting a gut to sign Schneiderlin if he is second rate?
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
No he didn't you monster. TOTTENHAM outscored SOUTHAMPTON. And the amount of data you are using is yet again FAR TOO SMALL.

PRETTY COMPARABLE TEAMS?????????

I've missed you so much you unbelievable nincompoop.


AVB's dreary risk averse Tottenham outscored Pochettino's up en at em all attack Southampton.

Is that better.

The amount of data was 54 games each. Hardly insignificant.
 

CJMurray

****
Aug 3, 2011
3,565
10,563
So why do we seem to be busting a gut to sign Schneiderlin if he is second rate?

Nothing wrong with being second tier, i'd say we're a second tier club. Schneiderlins a good player, better than most of our midfielders and importantly, knows how to play Poch's system, but he's just not a top tier player like the Vidal's and Pogba's of this world.
 

BringBack_leGin

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2004
27,719
54,929
AVB's dreary risk averse Tottenham outscored Pochettino's up en at em all attack Southampton.

Is that better.

The amount of data was 54 games each. Hardly insignificant.

AVB had one of the top 5 attackers (arguably the best outside of Messi and Ronaldo) for 38 of those games. During that time, Southampton had Championship proven Ricky Lambert. For those 38 games he also had in Sigurdsson and Dempsey two guys who’d scored nearly 30 between them in the Premier League the previous season. Southampton had Championship proven Ricky Lambert. He also had (but neglected to use) an in his prime Adebayor, someone who was not just Premiership proven, but had scored goals in large quantities throughout his career, including 18 for us the previous season. Southampton had Championship proven Ricky Lambert.

AVB then lost Bale, but had Soldado, who had scored fewer than only Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo in the previous 5 La Liga seasons. He had Lamela, who had scored 15 in the previous season’s Serie A. He had Chadli, who had scored 12 the previous season in Erevidsie. He had Capoue, who had scored 7 in the previous season’s Lique 1. He had Eriksen, who had scored 10 in the previous season’s Erevedsie. He had Paulinho, who had scored 1 in 4 on average over the previous 4 years for Corinthians. Southampton had the ultimately failed lunatic that is Dani Osvaldo, and Premiership Proven Ricky Lambert.
 

Spurs_Bear

Well-Known Member
Jan 7, 2009
17,094
22,286
AVB's dreary risk averse Tottenham outscored Pochettino's up en at em all attack Southampton.

Is that better.

The amount of data was 54 games each. Hardly insignificant.

AVB taking over a team that finished 4th.

Poch taking over a team at the bottom after sacking the manager.

Comparability personified.

Or not.
 

Gloryhunter

Well-Known Member
Jan 31, 2013
157
308
Stats may point AVB being a much manager/head coach than Pochy ever will be but somehow I believe what I saw. What I saw on Sunday was the best attacking display since the days when we had VDV and Modric. We didn't need anyone to Bale us out. Play wasnt sleep inducing. The desire and finesse were in abundance. A motivated Ade playing day one of the season and not rotting in the reserves. The third goal got me crying out... Wow!....Ok statically AVB and Dimmy our best managers ever in terms of PPG. Whatever. If Pochy can continue to dish out this brand of football, I will disregard the stats.
 

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