Ratings Vs QPR

MOM

  • Lloris

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Dier

    Votes: 49 10.5%
  • Kaboul

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Verts

    Votes: 6 1.3%
  • Rose

    Votes: 11 2.4%
  • Bentaleb

    Votes: 3 0.6%
  • Capoue

    Votes: 43 9.2%
  • Chadli

    Votes: 93 19.9%
  • Eriksen

    Votes: 12 2.6%
  • Lamela

    Votes: 245 52.4%
  • Adebayor

    Votes: 6 1.3%
  • Dembele

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Kane

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Soldado

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    468
Joined
Oct 19, 2004
Messages
39,837
AVB had one of the top 5 attackers (arguably the best outside of Messi and Ronaldo) for 38 of those games.
Wow there Mr LG, lets wind back a little. Bale was not the best attacker outside Messi and Ronaldo before AVB got hold him. That is part of the point.

For those 38 games he also had in Sigurdsson and Dempsey two guys who’d scored nearly 30 between them in the Premier League the previous season. Southampton had Championship proven Ricky Lambert.
Where do you get 30 goals from, it was 24 ? yes, Dempsey had had a decent couple of season but in his three previous seasons having played 29,35 & 36 games had managed 6,7,7 league goals (which is what he did with us. Don't try and tell me Dempsey is a better footballer/forward than Lambert, because he isn't. Sigurdson scored 7. And he sure is shit isn't better than Lalana.

AVBdefinitely didn't get "prime" Adebayor, he got Adebayor with no pre-season, then injured, then with the hump because he was told off for wearing a hat.

AVB then lost Bale, but had Soldado, who had scored fewer than only Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo in the previous 5 La Liga seasons. He had Lamela, who had scored 15 in the previous season’s Serie A. He had Chadli, who had scored 12 the previous season in Erevidsie. He had Capoue, who had scored 7 in the previous season’s Lique 1. He had Eriksen, who had scored 10 in the previous season’s Erevedsie. He had Paulinho, who had scored 1 in 4 on average over the previous 4 years for Corinthians. Southampton had the ultimately failed lunatic that is Dani Osvaldo, and Premiership Proven Ricky Lambert.
He didn't have Lamela or Capoue for long did he ? And none of those players had kicked a ball in this country before, most were very young, this must be taken into account.


Ignoring all the what if's and but but but..the fact is we were interested in signing Lovren, Shaw, Lalana, Schneiderlin & Rodriguez. So they can't be too shabby.

Sure, Pochettino may have had a very positive influence on them, I wasn't out to do a hatchet job on the guy, I like his style (have some reservations but fundamentally like).

My over riding point was responding to a poster who said AVB was all about the negative risk aversion and Pochettino was pretty much the reverse.

I merely tried to demonstrate that this was not the case. That players these coach's often inherit, acquire or lose can drastically change this perspective and that there is clear evidence that AVB's goals and points tally (in the EPL with us but also Portugal) don't suggest this to be a truism. But I do believe he operated a more risk averse strategy than Pochettino, I just don't think this is necessarily a bad thing.
 

nidge

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Can we please stop with the AVB chat?

It's boring and tiresome in the extreme and this is the ratings vs QPR thread so not the place for the discussion to take place. (Not that we need a place to discuss AVB vs Pochettino.)
 
Joined
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Messages
39,837
Can we please stop with the AVB chat?

It's boring and tiresome in the extreme and this is the ratings vs QPR thread so not the place for the discussion to take place. (Not that we need a place to discuss AVB vs Pochettino.)

I really think this is a ridiculous and over zealous stance to take.

These threads take winding turns, you can't always stick to a script in ever thread, it's how some of the best conversations and debates occur.

AVB was part of our immediate history, and players he brought in or influenced (or fucked up - whatever you choose) are still here. He is bound to crop up and it's daft trying to airbrush him out of every conversation.

In this instance we are comparing a style of play and the benefits/otherwise therein. It's just the normal evolution of a meandering conversation.
 

nidge

Sand gets everywhere!!!!!
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Messages
22,829
I really think this is a ridiculous and over zealous stance to take.

These threads take winding turns, you can't always stick to a script in ever thread, it's how some of the best conversations and debates occur.

AVB was part of our immediate history, and players he brought in or influenced (or fucked up - whatever you choose) are still here. He is bound to crop up and it's daft trying to airbrush him out of every conversation.

In this instance we are comparing a style of play and the benefits/otherwise therein. It's just the normal evolution of a meandering conversation.
Sigh, I am not trying to airbrush AVB out of every conversation (when have I tried previously to suggest I have tried?) When I come into a thread titled "Ratings Vs QPR" I expect a discussion on how our players played in the game against QPR and not some inane comparison between AVB's goals per game and points per game as our manager and Pochettino's goals per game and points per game as Southampton as they are completely irrelevant in discussing who will end up being looked upon as the better spurs manager/head coach in the future.

But hey in responding to your post I have done exactly what I asked if people could stop doing so well played. :facepalm:
 
Joined
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Messages
39,837
Sigh, I am not trying to airbrush AVB out of every conversation (when have I tried previously to suggest I have tried?) When I come into a thread titled "Ratings Vs QPR" I expect a discussion on how our players played in the game against QPR and not some inane comparison between AVB's goals per game and points per game as our manager and Pochettino's goals per game and points per game as Southampton as they are completely irrelevant in discussing who will end up being looked upon as the better spurs manager/head coach in the future.

But hey in responding to your post I have done exactly what I asked if people could stop doing so well played. :facepalm:
But you can't always stick to a script. When you are on the way home from a game you start talking about how Dawson was to blame for everything and before you know it you're talking about Homoerotic cinema moments featuring Oliver Reed. How does that happen ?
 

davidmatzdorf

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Jun 7, 2004
Messages
11,120
But you can't always stick to a script.
But you do stick to a script and that is what is dragging the thread OT. The constant, shrill spin of history and manipulation of statistics to post-rationalise your rigid conviction that you were 'right all along' about the long-gone AVB is wearing. It now attracts irritation and satire in equal measure: people have started to take the piss out of your monomania, instead of teeing off on it.

We got a lot of points under AVB because we had good players and because he was a pretty effective manager for us. But he had limitations and gigantic blind spots, not dissimilar to those that fucked up Hoddle's tenure with us. Most of those blind spots were to do with a clumsiness, a heavy-handedness in handling the febrile personalities that comprise a Premiership football squad; the rest of them were born of an 'I never played the game' inclination to follow theory instead of observation (much like yourself).

But fuck the statistics and the PPG. The main problem last season was that our football was grim, boring and virtually unwatchable. I hated it and I'm nowhere near alone. I'd go to WHL every fortnight and end up starting to groan and grumble around the 30th minute, trying not to boo reflexively, because I don't approve of booing our own team.

There are several people on SC (I'm not amongst them) who have recently posted that they would rather finish (say) 6th playing as we played against QPR than finish higher up the table playing the way we played last season. That says something about what we want, collectively, as fans, and about how pissed off many of us were last season at what we were watching for the money we were spending.

Football is entertainment. It is obliged to be beautiful, not just successful. That's especially a traditional aspiration for Spurs fans, more so than (say) Bolton fans or Stoke fans. Or even Chelsea fans.

AVB knows what he is doing - he's competent and capable. That doesn't mean he was the right manager for us, nor that he is a genius, nor that he is irreplaceable, nor that I and others are obliged to approve of his approach to football. I'm glad he's gone and that we can get back to trying to play with respect for the beautiful game again. We won't do it every week. We did it on Sunday against weak opposition. We'll find out next weekend whether we can impose it on better opponents.

But at least we're trying to play the game properly again.
 

steve

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Joined
Oct 21, 2003
Messages
3,492
You can't look at the game and the performance coherently without looking at the opposition. QPR setting up with 3 centre halves when we only play one up top doesn't make any sense at all. As we saw with Sunderland last season the stronger side with better players (Spurs) dominate possession meaning the wing backs can't get forward and subsequently the Spurs full backs can get forward almost unchecked and unchallenged until they get to the penalty box.

It's a daft system to play against a stronger outfit and coupled with some very iffy and lazy defensive work from their midfield and forwards (Barton aside) they really played pretty shit.

Next week we'll be the true barometer and I can't say I'm hugely optimistic when I look at the midfield especially...
 

jezz

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Aug 21, 2013
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5,289
You can't look at the game and the performance coherently without looking at the opposition. QPR setting up with 3 centre halves when we only play one up top doesn't make any sense at all. As we saw with Sunderland last season the stronger side with better players (Spurs) dominate possession meaning the wing backs can't get forward and subsequently the Spurs full backs can get forward almost unchecked and unchallenged until they get to the penalty box.

It's a daft system to play against a stronger outfit and coupled with some very iffy and lazy defensive work from their midfield and forwards (Barton aside) they really played pretty shit.

Next week we'll be the true barometer and I can't say I'm hugely optimistic when I look at the midfield especially...
Could be Capoue Schneiderlin mf, not to shabby.
 

steve

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Oct 21, 2003
Messages
3,492
Could be Capoue Schneiderlin mf, not to shabby.
Could be. I'm not pessimistic but Liverpool have some cracking players in Gerrard, Sterling, Coutinho and are likely to have a lot more possession than QPR...our defensive game which wasn't tested this week will be next week and our midfield will really have to put the work in...I think it'll be a close game but we can't get too carried away after Sunday and it won't surprise me if we come up a bit short...
 

THFCSPURS19

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Jan 6, 2013
Messages
32,708
Can we please stop with the AVB chat?

It's boring and tiresome in the extreme and this is the ratings vs QPR thread so not the place for the discussion to take place. (Not that we need a place to discuss AVB vs Pochettino.)
One could say that chat about AVB is as boring as the football we played under him.
 
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Messages
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But you do stick to a script and that is what is dragging the thread OT. The constant, shrill spin of history and manipulation of statistics to post-rationalise your rigid conviction that you were 'right all along' about the long-gone AVB is wearing. It now attracts irritation and satire in equal measure: people have started to take the piss out of your monomania, instead of teeing off on it.

We got a lot of points under AVB because we had good players and because he was a pretty effective manager for us. But he had limitations and gigantic blind spots, not dissimilar to those that fucked up Hoddle's tenure with us. Most of those blind spots were to do with a clumsiness, a heavy-handedness in handling the febrile personalities that comprise a Premiership football squad; the rest of them were born of an 'I never played the game' inclination to follow theory instead of observation (much like yourself).

But fuck the statistics and the PPG. The main problem last season was that our football was grim, boring and virtually unwatchable. I hated it and I'm nowhere near alone. I'd go to WHL every fortnight and end up starting to groan and grumble around the 30th minute, trying not to boo reflexively, because I don't approve of booing our own team.

There are several people on SC (I'm not amongst them) who have recently posted that they would rather finish (say) 6th playing as we played against QPR than finish higher up the table playing the way we played last season. That says something about what we want, collectively, as fans, and about how pissed off many of us were last season at what we were watching for the money we were spending.

Football is entertainment. It is obliged to be beautiful, not just successful. That's especially a traditional aspiration for Spurs fans, more so than (say) Bolton fans or Stoke fans. Or even Chelsea fans.

AVB knows what he is doing - he's competent and capable. That doesn't mean he was the right manager for us, nor that he is a genius, nor that he is irreplaceable, nor that I and others are obliged to approve of his approach to football. I'm glad he's gone and that we can get back to trying to play with respect for the beautiful game again. We won't do it every week. We did it on Sunday against weak opposition. We'll find out next weekend whether we can impose it on better opponents.

But at least we're trying to play the game properly again.

You are a sanctimonious hypocrite Matzdorf.

Yeah fuck the stats and the PPG, because they don't support your bullshit theory. When I have I ever said he didn't make mistakes, that everything was right under him ?

That's right, I haven't, but don't let the truth get in the way of another hissy fit. I posted an opinion and some stats. Didn't insult anyone or feel the need to. Not sure why you did ?

Clearly your opinion of AVB hasn't changed, so you're also sticking to your script, also perpetuating the OT dragging of this thread.

I assume you've offered your advice to other clueless non playing coaches like Jose Mourinho ?
 
Last edited:

Flashspur

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Liverpool's posession looked toothless in the face of very quick direct attacking moments from Man City. The game changes on teams who sieze the initiative - you can have 60% posession but if you are not able to do anything with it, you will be punished. I have a feeling that last seasons AVB will be this seasons Rodgers if he can't extract value out of Gerrard and Coutinho's passing game and Sterling's attacking down the flanks and the middle. We need to cut off their oxygen. Perhaps a different set of tactics from Poch is required or do we take our attacking game to them and see if they can do better? A good test for Our Defense and Midfield.
 

Spursidol

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12,636
Strange then that we were trying to sign nearly half of their team this summer.
I recall when Spurs were trying to sign half the Wimbledon team - thankfully we were only successfu at getting 2 of them, and I'm sure there were better options.

Spurs trying to sign Southampton players is solely because the ex Southampton manager now manager at Spurs thinks its easier to take players who know him into his next club. Rogers was doing the same at Liverpool, trying to sign up half the Swansea team (Sigurdsson and Allen come to mind).

IMO one or two players from Southampton might be ok - but at the right prices - because there are probably better players elsewhere to buy
 

Dan Yeats

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Ignoring all the what if's and but but but..the fact is we were interested in signing Lovren, Shaw, Lalana, Schneiderlin & Rodriguez. So they can't be too shabby.
According to...

...journalists with column inches to fill. Having just signed Saint's manager.

Reliable.
 

davidmatzdorf

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You are a sanctimonious hypocrite Matzdorf. And your posts on here are invariably as tedious as your fucking music.
That's an amazingly obnoxious response to my critical-but-polite and considered post.

You really are an unpleasant, arrogant ****.

My disrespect for your mentality has now been joined by an intense dislike of you personally. Don't expect further politeness from me next time you open your big, self-justifying, monomanical, observation-averse, insight-free and long-winded gob.
 
Joined
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That's an amazingly obnoxious response to my critical-but-polite and considered post.

You really are an unpleasant, arrogant ****.

My disrespect for your mentality has now been joined by an intense dislike of you personally. Don't expect further politeness from me next time you open your big, self-justifying, monomanical, observation-averse, insight-free and long-winded gob.

I apologise for the music jibe. It was unnecessary.

But I stand by the rest. You're a pompous, sanctimonious, hypocritical windbag who likes to dish it out but can't take it.
 
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