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Ratings Vs QPR

MOM

  • Lloris

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Dier

    Votes: 49 10.5%
  • Kaboul

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Verts

    Votes: 6 1.3%
  • Rose

    Votes: 11 2.4%
  • Bentaleb

    Votes: 3 0.6%
  • Capoue

    Votes: 43 9.2%
  • Chadli

    Votes: 93 19.9%
  • Eriksen

    Votes: 12 2.6%
  • Lamela

    Votes: 245 52.4%
  • Adebayor

    Votes: 6 1.3%
  • Dembele

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Kane

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Soldado

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    468

Mr Pink

SC Supporter
Aug 25, 2010
54,774
99,336
When you press high up the pitch, and win the ball, you are immediately in a position to create something dangerous. When you drop back and only start to press in your own third you have no outball or limited potential to threaten (Unless of course you are the sort of side that can string together 40-50 passes)

You not see our third goal? lol

Seriously though, totally agree.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
You don't think our passing and movement was much slicker and sharper looking?

I thought there was a huge difference if I'm being honest.

Had the same QPR team turned up last season and put in a similar performance we wouldn't of done that to them yesterday playing the way we were last season - no way.

Moving the ball as slowly as we did would of made it a hell of a lot easier for QPR to settle into the game and defend - which would of set a completely different tone for the game.

QPR were poor, no one is denying that, but our tempo and approach to the game right from the off is a contributory reason - obviously.

We never scored early last season, never. Totally different attitude and tempo to the way we started yesterday and that set the tone.


Ok, what about the Norwich game last season for example ? Tempo was good, movement was good and we played well.

What I think is, if AVB had had (through his own fault or whatever) a fit Adebayor (or a confident Soldado with one year on his belt), Capoue not getting injured early on, an Eriksen and a Chadli one year more experienced and a confident Lamela we might have seen AVB's passing, pressing high line game bare more fruit than it did, the way it sometimes did often the previous year.

Some of that was AVB's fault. His selections were sometimes counter intuitive, his deployment was sometimes counter intuitive. But some of it was not of his making. he wanted Dawson upgraded too, and having turned Bale into a world class forward, he lost him. He then had 7 players to integrate that had never kicked a ball in this country before. He had injuries to key players, he didn't always make the best decisions to compensate for that but Capoue was looking very good before he got injured.

So far we have played two league games under Poichettino. One was abysmal, even before ten men. The next was against a team that just didn't compete. Despite this I ddn't see much collective pressing after about 15 minutes. And we were given so much space it was unreal, even MOTD and others were highlighting it. So it's really hard to evaluate.

We have good players and they took advantage of circumstances, I just can't say that was a victory of new coaching or new tactical nous.

We are of course a work in progress and it will take a lot of time, I am prepared to wait, just like I did with AVB, but just like then I can't say I'm seeing something when I'm not or what I have seen is hard to gauge because it's been one game of good stuff and that was against a team who didn't try at all, they didn't even defend competently.
 

SpurSince57

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2006
45,213
8,229
And I don't believe the football we played under AVB was dross. There were lots of facets that were good IMO. Lots of facets that AVB and Pochettino have in common.

And lets not forget, AVB was ahead of Pochettino in the league , with all his 20m+ footballers in every position, just about the whole time they were in this league.

So far I like the decisions Pochettino is making. They bode well. I didn't like some of the decisions AVB made and thought they were counter intuitive to his philosophy.

Lets hope this continues and that in Pochettino we have found someone who can harmonise these facets for the best outcome. I Know AVB didn't always do this. But anyone who thinks it was all shit didn't notice Bale becoming one of the world's best players, us getting record points, us being 4 points off CL and in a Qtr final and winning every group game in Europe for the first time, whilst trying to acclimatise 7 new players.

Bale's improvement may have been down to natural progression, Sherwood's PPG last season was fractionally higher, a miss is as good as a mile, and it would have been a very sorry state of affairs if we hadn't seen off the stumblebums we lucked into drawing in the group stage. In 2006-07 we won every group game too—and Bayer, Besiktas, Bruges and Dinamo were much, much stiffer opposition.

But no, it wasn't all shit.
 

Mr Pink

SC Supporter
Aug 25, 2010
54,774
99,336
Ok, what about the Norwich game last season for example ? Tempo was good, movement was good and we played well.

What I think is, if AVB had had (through his own fault or whatever) a fit Adebayor (or a confident Soldado with one year on his belt), Capoue not getting injured early on, an Eriksen and a Chadli one year more experienced and a confident Lamela we might have seen AVB's passing, pressing high line game bare more fruit than it did, the way it sometimes did often the previous year.
Some of that was AVB's fault. His selections were sometimes counter intuitive, his deployment was sometimes counter intuitive. But some of it was not of his making. he wanted Dawson upgraded too, and having turned Bale into a world class forward, he lost him. He then had 7 players to integrate that had never kicked a ball in this country before. He had injuries to key players, he didn't always make the best decisions to compensate for that but Capoue was looking very good before he got injured.

So far we have played two league games under Poichettino. One was abysmal, even before ten men. The next was against a team that just didn't compete. Despite this I ddn't see much collective pressing after about 15 minutes.

We are of course a work in progress and it will take a lot of time, I am prepared to wait, just like I did with AVB, but just like then I can't say I'm seeing something when I'm not or what I have seen is hard to gauge because it's been one game of good stuff and that was against a team who didn't try at all, they didn't even defend competently.

That in itself either showed a lack of understanding, or a reluctance to play in a certain manner or style.

The bottom line for me is we're already seeing more expression and freedom in our play. We're moving it quicker and our movement is better as a result.

Its early days but there's a big contrast, in that regard, for me already.

The Norwich game, Erisken's debut IIRC, was a good game which Eriksen lit up. This wasn't the norm though, far far from it.
 

jezz

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2013
5,650
8,650
Ok, what about the Norwich game last season for example ? Tempo was good, movement was good and we played well.

What I think is, if AVB had had (through his own fault or whatever) a fit Adebayor (or a confident Soldado with one year on his belt), Capoue not getting injured early on, an Eriksen and a Chadli one year more experienced and a confident Lamela we might have seen AVB's passing, pressing high line game bare more fruit than it did, the way it sometimes did often the previous year.

Some of that was AVB's fault. His selections were sometimes counter intuitive, his deployment was sometimes counter intuitive. But some of it was not of his making. he wanted Dawson upgraded too, and having turned Bale into a world class forward, he lost him. He then had 7 players to integrate that had never kicked a ball in this country before. He had injuries to key players, he didn't always make the best decisions to compensate for that but Capoue was looking very good before he got injured.

So far we have played two league games under Poichettino. One was abysmal, even before ten men. The next was against a team that just didn't compete. Despite this I ddn't see much collective pressing after about 15 minutes. And we were given so much space it was unreal, even MOTD and others were highlighting it. So it's really hard to evaluate.

We have good players and they took advantage of circumstances, I just can't say that was a victory of new coaching or new tactical nous.

We are of course a work in progress and it will take a lot of time, I am prepared to wait, just like I did with AVB, but just like then I can't say I'm seeing something when I'm not or what I have seen is hard to gauge because it's been one game of good stuff and that was against a team who didn't try at all, they didn't even defend competently.
He had a confident Lamela, Sheriff, but dropped him against Barcodes with 2 week international break after.
One of the most baffling decisions AVB ever made in his Spurs tenure, and there were a few.
 

vigospur

Well-Known Member
Dec 10, 2006
1,115
807
So far we have played two league games under Poichettino. One was abysmal, even before ten men. The next was against a team that just didn't compete. Despite this I ddn't see much collective pressing after about 15 minutes.
Just don't agree with this at all. The pressing of our midfielders and full backs lasted through the first half and most the second. It was the most striking feature of the game that this included the creative players such as Lamela and Eriksen who might not be expected to fancy the hard graft.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
That in itself either showed a lack of understanding, or a reluctance to play in a certain manner or style.

The bottom line for me is we're already seeing more expression and freedom in our play. We're moving it quicker and our movement is better as a result.

Its early days but there's a big contrast, in that regard, for me already.

The Norwich game, Erisken's debut IIRC, was a good game which Eriksen lit up. This wasn't the norm though, far far from it.

I'm sorry Mr P but one game against terrible opposition and you are calling it Revoloution "on" already. I call bullshit.

Did you see more expression and freedom against West Ham or the mighty Limasol ? Did you see us moving the ball quicker and with more tempo ?

If you want a very good comparison try comparing some of our play against the weaker opposition in Europe last year (although even then not many were as half hearted as QPR were) with yesterday's game.

No one can tell me that some of our football - including Lamela's finest game in a spurs shirt - wasn't superb, full of tempo and slick passing moves that created superb goals and plenty of them. If AVB had transferred his Euro players to the league and got the right balance in the league line ups (his fault) we might have seen the same results. Lamela should have started the next league after that confidence inspiring game in Europe for sure and we might have seen some of what we saw yesterday.

There are clear comparisons.

The best I can say right now is that Pochettino yesterday (not last week) made all the right selections to maximise our chances of a good performance. That is great, and AVB didn't do this nearly enough last season. That in itself would be an improvement if he keeps it up. He is also reaping the reward of a squad that has now had a year to settle in a new league and country (re Rodgers 2nd season for example).

I also believe that we should see some signs of collective coached ethos in the coming weeks and months, because that is what he did previously. But one game against abject shit ****s is no indication of a new philosophy. Not in my opinion.
 

Mr Pink

SC Supporter
Aug 25, 2010
54,774
99,336
I'm sorry Mr P but one game against terrible opposition and you are calling it Revoloution "on" already. I call bullshit.

Did you see more expression and freedom against West Ham or the mighty Limasol ? Did you see us moving the ball quicker and with more tempo ?

If you want a very good comparison try comparing some of our play against the weaker opposition in Europe last year (although even then not many were as half hearted as QPR were) with yesterday's game.

No one can tell me that some of our football - including Lamela's finest game in a spurs shirt - wasn't superb, full of tempo and slick passing moves that created superb goals and plenty of them. If AVB had transferred his Euro players to the league and got the right balance in the league line ups (his fault) we might have seen the same results. Lamela should have started the next league after that confidence inspiring game in Europe for sure and we might have seen some of what we saw yesterday.

There are clear comparisons.

The best I can say right now is that Pochettino yesterday (not last week) made all the right selections to maximise our chances of a good performance. That is great, and AVB didn't do this nearly enough last season. That in itself would be an improvement if he keeps it up. He is also reaping the reward of a squad that has now had a year to settle in a new league and country (re Rodgers 2nd season for example).

I also believe that we should see some signs of collective coached ethos in the coming weeks and months, because that is what he did previously. But one game against abject shit ****s is no indication of a new philosophy. Not in my opinion.

Well you're certainly entitled to your own opinion BC.

I don't think its a revolution...yet. Of course not, but what it is...is an improvement in terms of the way we moved the ball, for the most part, in comparison to last season.

We played with more tempo and urgency from the get go. I think that's undeniable and if we continue in the same vein whilst continuing to develop and improve under Pochettino's guidance and system we may just have some sort of 'revolution' in the future.

Everything feels right about this appointment. I was a huge advocate for his appointment because I thought he could strike the right balance between fluid and entertaining football with solid foundations, a structure that allowed our creative sparks to flourish.

I saw glimpses of that yesterday for sure and I feel optimistic because of it even though QPR were poor - but its important to recognise that we made them look poor to.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
He had a confident Lamela, Sheriff, but dropped him against Barcodes with 2 week international break after.
One of the most baffling decisions AVB ever made in his Spurs tenure, and there were a few.


Absolutely this. And there were other counter intuitive selections AVB made, and I was always critical of them.

Dempsey repeatedly in season 1 amongst them. Just did not suit a fast tempo slick passing game. Dawson in a high line ? Lennon continually.

I always maintained that AVB made personnel choices that didn't help his cause (I think he did this at Chelsea too), but the problem wasn't the philosophy per se or his ability to coach footballers and I believe results bare this out over the course of his tenure given the circumstances and his success at Porto and the style of that success.

I do believe that if AVB was now in charge with this squad (inc Adebayor), many of whom are now one year wiser and acclimatised we'd also be seeing some improvement in forward play, especially against shit teams like sunday.

If Pochettino makes better choices, better use of our squad and development group, and gets us playing better tempo and more coherently than of late then it won't matter a fucking jot what AVB would or wouldn't have done.

And we can't be sure that AVB would ever have made the most of our squad because his track record wasn't always good in that department.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
Well you're certainly entitled to your own opinion BC.

I don't think its a revolution...yet. Of course not, but what it is...is an improvement in terms of the way we moved the ball, for the most part, in comparison to last season.

We played with more tempo and urgency from the get go. I think that's undeniable and if we continue in the same vein whilst continuing to develop and improve under Pochettino's guidance and system we may just have some sort of 'revolution' in the future.

Everything feels right about this appointment. I was a huge advocate for his appointment because I thought he could strike the right balance between fluid and entertaining football with solid foundations, a structure that allowed our creative sparks to flourish.

I saw glimpses of that yesterday for sure and I feel optimistic because of it even though QPR were poor - but its important to recognise that we made them look poor to.


You don't think all pumped up, first home game against a shit opposition that barely tried we were always likely to look good ?

I saw good players doing good things. I didn't see good players doing tactically innovative things. I don't know how you could tell that from that game, that one game.

Was there concerted tempo all game ? No. There was very little second half at all, it was played at a snails pace. Was their cohesive pressing of the ball throughout ? I barely saw any collective squeeze after 15 minutes. I did see some individual pressing though.

I'm not raging that I'm not seeing these things yet, I fully expect it will take time. But one game, when last weeks was so bad and devoid of anything good or collective is way to early for me to decide what I wasn't seeing was juts a better team beating a shit one.
 

Mr Pink

SC Supporter
Aug 25, 2010
54,774
99,336
You don't think all pumped up, first home game against a shit opposition that barely tried we were always likely to look good ?

I saw good players doing good things. I didn't see good players doing tactically innovative things. I don't know how you could tell that from that game, that one game.

Was there concerted tempo all game ? No. There was very little second half at all, it was played at a snails pace. Was their cohesive pressing of the ball throughout ? I barely saw any collective squeeze after 15 minutes. I did see some individual pressing though.

I'm not raging that I'm not seeing these things yet, I fully expect it will take time. But one game, when last weeks was so bad and devoid of anything good or collective is way to early for me to decide what I wasn't seeing was juts a better team beating a shit one.

I said there was better movement and we moved the ball quicker. Are you seriously disputing that?

That's not tactical innovation, its just a requirement if you want to set a better tempo to your play. Which we did.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
I said there was better movement and we moved the ball quicker. Are you seriously disputing that?

That's not tactical innovation, its just a requirement if you want to set a better tempo to your play. Which we did.

I'm disputing the interpretation and reasons for that. Your saying "it's Pochettino's magic working already", I'm saying I'm not so sure it wasn't just a good team with talented players at home to a shit team with shit players who weren't trying very hard.

When we played a team that tried seven days prior, we were awful. Zero tempo, zero moving the ball quickly.
 

Gbspurs

Gatekeeper for debates, King of the plonkers
Jan 27, 2011
26,945
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Is there a GIF of when Eriksen pulled that ball out of the sky near the corner flag? I was about 10 feet away from that and it was majestic.
 

Mr Pink

SC Supporter
Aug 25, 2010
54,774
99,336
I'm disputing the interpretation and reasons for that. Your saying "it's Pochettino's magic working already", I'm saying I'm not so sure it wasn't just a good team with talented players at home to a shit team with shit players who weren't trying very hard.

When we played a team that tried seven days prior, we were awful. Zero tempo, zero moving the ball quickly.

Perhaps its something Pochettino addressed and demanded in the intervening week? And lets remember we were down to ten men in that game. Adebayor looked well off the pace and that seemed to disrupt any sort of pressing we were probebly expected to do.

It wasn't great but we still did enough to win in the end.

Yesterday was a different story, there was clear improvement in the way and speed in which we moved the ball.

So if I'm seeing that improvement in his second league game of the season I'll take that all day long as I'd probably still be waiting for it had AVB been still been in charge. We never moved the ball quick enough under him, generally speaking.

Anyway, Liverpool will be a much sterner test so we'll see how we go.
 

chinaman

Well-Known Member
Jul 19, 2003
17,974
12,423
Ok, what about the Norwich game last season for example ? Tempo was good, movement was good and we played well.

What I think is, if AVB had had (through his own fault or whatever) a fit Adebayor (or a confident Soldado with one year on his belt), Capoue not getting injured early on, an Eriksen and a Chadli one year more experienced and a confident Lamela we might have seen AVB's passing, pressing high line game bare more fruit than it did, the way it sometimes did often the previous year.

Some of that was AVB's fault. His selections were sometimes counter intuitive, his deployment was sometimes counter intuitive. But some of it was not of his making. he wanted Dawson upgraded too, and having turned Bale into a world class forward, he lost him. He then had 7 players to integrate that had never kicked a ball in this country before. He had injuries to key players, he didn't always make the best decisions to compensate for that but Capoue was looking very good before he got injured.

So far we have played two league games under Poichettino. One was abysmal, even before ten men. The next was against a team that just didn't compete. Despite this I ddn't see much collective pressing after about 15 minutes. And we were given so much space it was unreal, even MOTD and others were highlighting it. So it's really hard to evaluate.

We have good players and they took advantage of circumstances, I just can't say that was a victory of new coaching or new tactical nous.

We are of course a work in progress and it will take a lot of time, I am prepared to wait, just like I did with AVB, but just like then I can't say I'm seeing something when I'm not or what I have seen is hard to gauge because it's been one game of good stuff and that was against a team who didn't try at all, they didn't even defend competently.



That, Sir, was a very fair comment.
 

Spurs_Bear

Well-Known Member
Jan 7, 2009
17,094
22,286
Wasn't sure anyone would have been able to shoehorn AVB into any comments made about the game yesterday unless it was to laugh, glad someone managed it.

Thoroughly enjoyed the game, QPR played right into our hands with their 3 carthorses in defence, and will get barbecued by all and sundry if they continue it throughout the season. It has no place in this league, LVG will find that out, and even though he's a bone idle arse, I expect him to change it soon. Harry, I'm not so sure...and it could be very bad for QPR.

Tempo like we haven't seen for years, and players actually moving with and without the ball were a joy, gash opposition, setup gashly, with some gash individuals, but at least we battered them, not bored them to tears.

Fair play to Poch, 3 wins out of 3, frothing at the gash for the Liverpool game next week.

And to finish, please lets not spend £20m on Schneiderlin, Capoue looked the player we thought we were getting originally during yesterdays game, and Bentaleb will thrive next to him. Was glad that was the pairing selected and not Holtby, cant really fault Poch for anything yesterday.

@Bus-Conductor, let me know if you get a spare ticket next to you.
 

Tottenham_God

Well-Known Member
Nov 6, 2011
2,935
5,617
horrendous? Behave yourself. Lamela did nothing of note in the second half, though he continued to press well and work hard. Lloris didn't do anything wrong. Kaboul defended well throughout the game from one mistake in the first half.

consider lamela a 7.5 if it makes you feel better, he was very good first half
Thank you, two assists has to push him up the ratings compared to Loris and Kaboul who were picking their noses half the match
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
@Mr Pink

Just watching Neville Neville's progeny on MNF and he was very effusive about the way we started the game. Reckons it was very Pochettino. He was at pains to point out how dire QPR were.

They chucked out some interesting stats:

Spurs QPR

Average age 25 28

Distance covered 117km 110

Total sprints 426 363

Possession 66 34


One point he made and I completely agree with, I don't think QPR's formation was the prime problem, it doesn't matter what formation you play if your players are poorly prepared, tactically clueless, don't work, run and press the ball.
 

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