Ratings Vs QPR

[Mr Pink]

@Mr Pink

Just watching Neville Neville's progeny on MNF and he was very effusive about the way we started the game. Reckons it was very Pochettino. He was at pains to point out how dire QPR were.

They chucked out some interesting stats:

Spurs QPR

Average age 25 28

Distance covered 117km 110

Total sprints 426 363

Possession 66 34


One point he made and I completely agree with, I don't think QPR's formation was the prime problem, it doesn't matter what formation you play if your players are poorly prepared, tactically clueless, don't work, run and press the ball.

Yeah I saw it and totally agreed. He also said that the biggest difference he saw yesterday in our play, which was in conjunction with the point he was making about how we started the game, was our willingness to go and win the ball back.

That is playing with a higher tempo and intensity but I totally agree that QPR didn't get close enough and apply enough pressure when we were in possession - systems are irrelevant if those basics are so poor.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

@Bus-Conductor - I've always wondered- who did you enjoy us under more (in terms of football played)- AVB or Redknapp?

 

[gp13tot]

Is there a GIF of when Eriksen pulled that ball out of the sky near the corner flag? I was about 10 feet away from that and it was majestic.

yeah i was right by that shouted at him 'hows your touch'. Class. Sure he gave a cheeky smile as well!

 

[Spurs_Bear]

@Bus-Conductor - I've always wondered- who did you enjoy us under more (in terms of football played)- AVB or Redknapp?

Christ, man...Beece preferred Ramos to Redknapp so the answer to your question is easy!

 

[guiltyparty]

yeah i was right by that shouted at him 'hows your touch'. Class. Sure he gave a cheeky smile as well!

 

[Bulletspur]

Haven't seen the match yet so ratings later

Just watched the match for the first time. Having read the various posts and knowing the score before hand, I think I was able to watch objectively without having the usual emotions.

I have to agree with Bee Cee to a certain extent. I agree we seem to have improved but QPR made us look better than we actually are. Still I really enjoyed the game. Good and entertaining game played in the way where I felt the good old Spurs passion.

But whether I will have this feeling a week from now after we play Liverpool, our first credible test, is another matter.
I voted Capoue my MOM.

 

[Flashspur]

Ok, what about the Norwich game last season for example ? Tempo was good, movement was good and we played well.

What I think is, if AVB had had (through his own fault or whatever) a fit Adebayor (or a confident Soldado with one year on his belt), Capoue not getting injured early on, an Eriksen and a Chadli one year more experienced and a confident Lamela we might have seen AVB's passing, pressing high line game bare more fruit than it did, the way it sometimes did often the previous year.

Some of that was AVB's fault. His selections were sometimes counter intuitive, his deployment was sometimes counter intuitive. But some of it was not of his making. he wanted Dawson upgraded too, and having turned Bale into a world class forward, he lost him. He then had 7 players to integrate that had never kicked a ball in this country before. He had injuries to key players, he didn't always make the best decisions to compensate for that but Capoue was looking very good before he got injured.

So far we have played two league games under Poichettino. One was abysmal, even before ten men. The next was against a team that just didn't compete. Despite this I ddn't see much collective pressing after about 15 minutes. And we were given so much space it was unreal, even MOTD and others were highlighting it. So it's really hard to evaluate.

We have good players and they took advantage of circumstances, I just can't say that was a victory of new coaching or new tactical nous.

We are of course a work in progress and it will take a lot of time, I am prepared to wait, just like I did with AVB, but just like then I can't say I'm seeing something when I'm not or what I have seen is hard to gauge because it's been one game of good stuff and that was against a team who didn't try at all, they didn't even defend competently.

I think AVB was and is inherently cautious and ultimately defensive minded so he approached the game from a safety first angle. AVB's pressing in other words was a defensive measure - possession the ultimate aim. Stop the other side playing so they cant over run us, wear them down and nick a goal. You saw that at Chelsea where he turned a side with an agressive bent into a passive one that lost its confidence and swagger even though its posession stats stayed the same. Of course once that semblence of control was blown away by agressive teams - we were over run and badly at that!

Poch approaches the high line and pressing game differently. It is focused on agressive outcomes. Grab posession and turn it into attacks in that final third that result in pressure on the defensive set up resulting in an error and/or a shot on goal. Grab the changeover opportunities and turn each one to our advantage. Every time we lose the ball is another opportunity to win it back and pressure the other side and not a 'run for the hills' outcome like AVB.

Two very different managers in my view. The AVB experience with THFC resembled his time with Chelsea. I think even without the issues you have described we would have had a similar outcome.

I am not saying that AVB cannot be successful but his style harks back to the 60's and coaches like Herrera who looked to win by default using a very cautious approach.

 

[Flashspur]

MOM for me was Capoue. In amongst some very good performances it was Capoue who kept things ticking over in midfield and took control of the game. He enabled Bentaleb to shine and played the ball winner/transitional role superbly. We have a real gem. The only downside for me is the anger that wells up in me when I think of Sherwood refusing to play him. Great team performance all round though with some lovely fluid play. A joy to watch. Thanks Poch.

well Timmy was convinced we did'nt need a defensive midfielder based on Sir Les' advice

 

[guy]

Wow we're back to comparisons with AVB already! Amazing stuff

Good to see the old Norwich game is still the only example being used of a good team performance

The first real test is obviously going to be against Liverpool this weekend, do we think we can beat them? I'm quietly confident, but will bite my tongue on positivity boasting just yet

 

[DaiT]

I have given up trying to score individual players, the team performance was that good.
I came home thinking that Lamela was man of the match but on reflection I would plump for Chadli. Two good goals, but the pass to free Rose to set up the fourth goal was fantastic. I wonder whether his presence also contributed to a top performance from Rose.
Only one worry. I am trying not to think about Sturridge or Sterling running at Younis Kaboul.

Not only Kaboul but Rose and Dier are going to be tested too. While Rose had a great game against QPR I did not think he was so good against Downing. hope Dier plays because I believe he is better than Naughton at RB.

Was a good team performance though I agree.

 

[NEVILLEB]

AVB is a textbook manager. Nothing he does is natural or based on instinct. He bored everyone at both Chelsea and Spurs.

Poch seems the man. High fitness levels are the bedrock for improving every aspect of our play.

Feels good to be watching Spurs again!

 

[Mr Pink]

Just watched the match for the first time. Having read the various posts and knowing the score before hand, I think I was able to watch objectively without having the usual emotions.

I have to agree with Bee Cee to a certain extent. I agree we seem to have improved but QPR made us look better than we actually are. Still I really enjoyed the game. Good and entertaining game played in the way where I felt the good old Spurs passion.

But whether I will have this feeling a week from now after we play Liverpool, our first credible test, is another matter.
I voted Capoue my MOM.

The point is though mate, no matter how poor QPR were in terms of applying pressure when we were in possession, we still played with a far faster tempo - on and off the ball.

Had we approached the game like we did last season we wouldn't of produced that kind of performance and who knows how QPR would of responded - probably a lot better than what we saw on Sunday.

The facts speak for themselves....we barely scored inside the first 20 minutes of games last season.

 

[Mr Pink]

I'm disputing the interpretation and reasons for that. Your saying "it's Pochettino's magic working already", I'm saying I'm not so sure it wasn't just a good team with talented players at home to a shit team with shit players who weren't trying very hard.

When we played a team that tried seven days prior, we were awful. Zero tempo, zero moving the ball quickly.

Think this has something to do with our failure to move the ball quickly against West Ham:

http://www.101greatgoals.com/blog/s...or-west-hams-1st-game-v-spurs-don-hutchison/?

 

[THFCSPURS19]

Think this has something to do with our failure to move the ball quickly against West Ham:

http://www.101greatgoals.com/blog/s...or-west-hams-1st-game-v-spurs-don-hutchison/?

Still fucking lost

 

[davidmatzdorf]

Think this has something to do with our failure to move the ball quickly against West Ham:

http://www.101greatgoals.com/blog/s...or-west-hams-1st-game-v-spurs-don-hutchison/?

"Six inches"? I don't think so.

Six millimetres, maybe. Either that or moonshine.

 

[Mr Pink]

"Six inches"? I don't think so.

Six millimetres, maybe. Either that or moonshine.

Yeah I took the six inches to be an exaggeration but it was definitely longer.

Funny, I've still got the game saved on my sky plus. I watched Dier's goal again, and he actually makes quite a strong contact with the ball yet it ends up nearly trickling in by the time its about to cross the line.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

Unfortunately I've only seen the MoTD highlights so can't offer much judgement, but I note from what I have seen that the two Chadli goals (i.e. open play and the result from good build up and getting through the opposition) were both scored while there were several other players in the opposition area. That means good movement, understanding and awareness of team mates, and intelligent play, things we haven't seen in far too long (certainly never under the previous two managers).

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I think AVB was and is inherently cautious and ultimately defensive minded so he approached the game from a safety first angle. AVB's pressing in other words was a defensive measure - possession the ultimate aim. Stop the other side playing so they cant over run us, wear them down and nick a goal. You saw that at Chelsea where he turned a side with an agressive bent into a passive one that lost its confidence and swagger even though its posession stats stayed the same. Of course once that semblence of control was blown away by agressive teams - we were over run and badly at that!

Poch approaches the high line and pressing game differently. It is focused on agressive outcomes. Grab posession and turn it into attacks in that final third that result in pressure on the defensive set up resulting in an error and/or a shot on goal. Grab the changeover opportunities and turn each one to our advantage. Every time we lose the ball is another opportunity to win it back and pressure the other side and not a 'run for the hills' outcome like AVB.

Two very different managers in my view. The AVB experience with THFC resembled his time with Chelsea. I think even without the issues you have described we would have had a similar outcome.

I am not saying that AVB cannot be successful but his style harks back to the 60's and coaches like Herrera who looked to win by default using a very cautious approach.

I think there's possibly some validity in what you say in terms of approach, but I think also both have been influenced by circumstance. AVB's Porto were incredibly frugal defensively, and that was almost certainly in part down to his methods, but they were also the highest scoring team and finished with a GD of +57 in 30 games - also in part down to his methods.

AVB's Chelsea did not have the Oscar's & Hazards, £50m Torres decided not to be good any more (a decision he has since stuck to with every subsequent manager) and it was AVB who played Sturridge more than any of his predecessors, though he was still a novice then.

Pochettino hardly set the world a blaze in an attacking sense at Espanyol. And despite having all these 20m+ footballers in every part of the team, and a supposedly more attacking ethos, over the course of their time in the EPL, AVB averaged 1.5 goals per game, Pochettino 1.35, and AVB averaged 1.8 ppg and Pochettino 1.38.

So AVB has basically outscored and outpointed Pochettino. And AVB was still above Pochettino in the league when he was sacked.

We scored exactly the same amount of goals under AVB in 12-13 (66) than we had under Redknapp in 11-12. And that team had lost Modric, VDV and Adebayor had fucked about pre season and been woefully off form during. Yes, Bale upped his output, but this was IMO entirely down to AVB figuring out that he was a forward, not a fucking left winger as "they" had continually told Redknapp.

I think managers are often at the whim of fortune in regards to the players they inherit/lose/acquire. In terms of players I think AVB didn't have much luck at both Cheslea or Spurs. Pochettino IMO, has lucked into a good set at the right time at both Southampton and Spurs, yet still didn't outperform AVB for goals or points.

I also think that paying more attention to and managing risk is what has made some of the great managers great and was one of the reservations I had with Pochettino (and people like Martinez).

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Above is an example of a shambolic use of stats.

 

[CowInAComa]

AvB? In a thread a year later?

Yes, yes, AvB was the bestest ever and fate conspired against him (twice in a row) to make his football insipid and boring. Poch isnt fit to lace his boots blah blah.


But cant we take it to the Zenit v Amkar Perm ratings thread?