Match Ratings Ratings vs Rochdale (Replay)

[dudu]

Should have VAR decisions on bt commentators dreadful especially savage , you would think they would at least get players names right

Kept on calling Moura, Moira - I really do dislike that man.

 

[mendesstormer]

Well that was a crazy bag of spanners.

Poch's subs have always been a bit twighlight zone, but tonight's really went to another dimension of weird. Winks had had a very poor first half, but he's a kid with a handful of starts, he was showing signs of improvement second half, and once we were 4-1 up, surely to god you could keep him on, let him get those much needed minutes and build a bit of confidence, god knows we might need him at some point in the near future and it would be better to have him with a bit of confidence in tact rather than completely demoralised having been subbed off again in circumstances like this. Second time running Poch has hauled him off just as he was settling down. And to bring on the chronically injured Dembele in such a crazy game, at 4-1 up, just why ? Fucking madness ?

Then he takes Son off, rather than Lamela - who was on a yellow, and a slippery pitch - to bring on Alli ? Did that game really need Alli risked either ?

I see what you're saying obviously BC, but I fail to see why it's necessary to keep chipping away at MoPo in this way. How can an armchair fan like yourself (or myself for that matter) make a better judgement call on what substitutions are needed in any given situation than the manager who works with these players week in week out? It simply makes no sense. We tend to allow our emotions as fans to cloud our judgement too much, I feel - and your judgement on things is sometimes spot on, I have to say. But, really, the manager? What could he possibly be doing better? Or to put it another way, with the money, the power and the players at his disposal how could he (and his team) realistically be expected to achieve more than they are already achieving. OK, as we keep hearing, they (we) have 't won anything yet? But they've certainly done their utmost to put Spurs in a position where a trophy is a realistic prospect this season. And there is a definite sense that the club as a whole is growing and developing almost on a daily basis. I'm completely satisfied with that (so far) - I would personally be inclined to wait until the team start actually playing badly / and/or start losing to teams they should really be beating before criticising the management team. Overall, they are doing an absolutely outstanding job, and it seems to me that isn't always sufficiently recognised on this site.

 

[PLTuck]

I see what you're saying obviously BC, but I fail to see why it's necessary to keep chipping away at MoPo in this way. How can an armchair fan like yourself (or myself for that matter) make a better judgement call on what substitutions are needed in any given situation than the manager who works with these players week in week out? It simply makes no sense. We tend to allow our emotions as fans to cloud our judgement too much, I feel - and your judgement on things is sometimes spot on, I have to say. But, really, the manager? What could he possibly be doing better? Or to put it another way, with the money, the power and the players at his disposal how could he (and his team) realistically be expected to achieve more than they are already achieving. OK, as we keep hearing, they (we) have 't won anything yet? But they've certainly done their utmost to put Spurs in a position where a trophy is a realistic prospect this season. And there is a definite sense that the club as a whole is growing and developing almost on a daily basis. I'm completely satisfied with that (so far) - I would personally be inclined to wait until the team start actually playing badly / and/or start losing to teams they should really be beating before criticising the management team. Overall, they are doing an absolutely outstanding job, and it seems to me that isn't always sufficiently recognised on this site.

You're new around here aren't you?

You'll get used to poster's biases, or thinking they know better. BC to his credit, has always kept his philosophy on how a team should function, and how and when subs are made, and that is fine and good for discussion.

What I don't agree with is the assertion that Poch is wrong because he sees it differently.

 

[Jimmypearce7]

I voted for Lucas, created danger.

All opinion of course but I was amazed to find people had voted for Lamella- I thought he was awful,lost the ball and opportunities throughout. Plus he needs to be told that the way he tackles- horizontally- is no longer legal or so borderline as to risk a yellow or red with every one.

 

[cider spurs]

VAR is a ****.

The End.

Sorry...I'm afraid we're going to have to look at that opinion again.

Review pending..

 

[mendesstormer]

You're new around here aren't you?

You'll get used to poster's biases, or thinking they know better. BC to his credit, has always kept his philosophy on how a team should function, and how and when subs are made, and that is fine and good for discussion.

What I don't agree with is the assertion that Poch is wrong because he sees it differently.

I've been on this site for years, but I don't post as regularly as some. I've read BC's posts for years too. A lot of what he says is spot on, but sometimes I think he gets overly caught up in personal opinions which appear to be set in stone and don't change in response to changing realities. Poch isn't wrong. Everything I've observed about his development as a manager (especially since he's been at Spurs) suggests to me that he is very much going in the right direction. How could anyone think otherwise? I don't get it.

 

[Shadydan]

I've been on this site for years, but I don't post as regularly as some. I've read BC's posts for years too. A lot of what he says is spot on, but sometimes I think he gets overly caught up in personal opinions which appear to be set in stone and don't change in response to changing realities. Poch isn't wrong. Everything I've observed about his development as a manager (especially since he's been at Spurs) suggests to me that he is very much going in the right direction. How could anyone think otherwise? I don't get it.

BC just likes to make it all about him sometimes, we're used to it. It's a pleasure reading some of his posts but I just switch off when it becomes tedious

 

[PLTuck]

I've been on this site for years, but I don't post as regularly as some. I've read BC's posts for years too. A lot of what he says is spot on, but sometimes I think he gets overly caught up in personal opinions which appear to be set in stone and don't change in response to changing realities. Poch isn't wrong. Everything I've observed about his development as a manager (especially since he's been at Spurs) suggests to me that he is very much going in the right direction. How could anyone think otherwise? I don't get it.

Saying you are new was a (bad) joke.

Oh I agree. But like you say, some people's ideas are set in granite and they are immovable on it. I just filter that shit out, but still enjoy the bigger proportion of sense that posters like BC submit.

There are loads on here that just don't seem to be able to accept Poch's substitute philosophy. For me, it is what it is and I accept it, as it's pretty obvious to all but the most arrogant that Poch knows what he's doing.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I see what you're saying obviously BC, but I fail to see why it's necessary to keep chipping away at MoPo in this way. How can an armchair fan like yourself (or myself for that matter) make a better judgement call on what substitutions are needed in any given situation than the manager who works with these players week in week out? It simply makes no sense. We tend to allow our emotions as fans to cloud our judgement too much, I feel - and your judgement on things is sometimes spot on, I have to say. But, really, the manager? What could he possibly be doing better? Or to put it another way, with the money, the power and the players at his disposal how could he (and his team) realistically be expected to achieve more than they are already achieving. OK, as we keep hearing, they (we) have 't won anything yet? But they've certainly done their utmost to put Spurs in a position where a trophy is a realistic prospect this season. And there is a definite sense that the club as a whole is growing and developing almost on a daily basis. I'm completely satisfied with that (so far) - I would personally be inclined to wait until the team start actually playing badly / and/or start losing to teams they should really be beating before criticising the management team. Overall, they are doing an absolutely outstanding job, and it seems to me that isn't always sufficiently recognised on this site.

Firstly, I take it for granted that anyone reading stuff on here, including mine, knows it's an opinion, and as such takes it for what it is.

As far as Poch goes, I am on record (many times) as saying I think he's the best Spurs manager in my time supporting Spurs (early seventies). Generally I love the fella.

I call things as I see them. For example, a lot of people criticised Saturday's performance, I disagreed with many and thought the performance was generally pretty good. And even though we won last night, I disagreed with some of the things Poch did. I try to apply some logic and explanation to my opinions. If you disagree with that then feel free to tell me why. But I don't believe that us mere mortals, who have often played, watched football (around the world in all it's various shapes and forms), read, analysed, studied (even just in the casual way we all do) are incapable of having valid opinions that contradict even the very best managers. Or that even the very best managers aren't capable of making odd and poor decisions.

It is kind of what this place is all about, no?

 

[SlotBadger]

I was amazed to find people had voted for Lamella- I thought he was awful

"Awful" for you being, what, 1/2/3 out of 10?

 

[mendesstormer]

My overall impression of the match (and admittedly I didn't see the first half which evidently wasn't an overly impressive performance from us) was that it confirmed to me that Poch is handling things brilliantly at the moment. All the players who needed minutes got minutes, Llorente who has struggled and arguably didn't get enough playing time early in the season has finally come good (it may not last, but it's a good platform to build from at least), KWP (who most people might feel could have got more playing time this season) played and got his first ever goal which clearly meant a lot to him, and judging by the comments about how well he has performed this season in the U21s I'm encouraged that here too Poch is basically handling his development pretty well - he doesn't look discouraged, far from it, in fact he looks hungry, and that is what you want from a young player. More chances will come his way if he deserves them, that's almost certain. Lamela got to play a starring role, which can only be good for his rehab and reintegration into the first team. And crucially a lot of the players who may have needed a rest got one, or at least only had to play half an hour or so. And none of them got injured. We won 6-1 in difficult conditions. We're through to the next round of a cup that we now have an excellent chance of winning if we keep playing like we have since Christmas pretty much. What's not to like?

 

[mendesstormer]

Firstly, I take it for granted that anyone reading stuff on here, including mine, knows it's an opinion, and as such takes it for what it is.

As far as Poch goes, I am on record (many times) as saying I think he's the best Spurs manager in my time supporting Spurs (early seventies). Generally I love the fella.

I call things as I see them. For example, a lot of people criticised Saturday's performance, I disagreed with many and thought the performance was generally pretty good. And even though we won last night, I disagreed with some of the things Poch did. I try to apply some logic and explanation to my opinions. If you disagree with that then feel free to tell me why. But I don't believe that us mere mortals, who have often played, watched football (around the world in all it's various shapes and forms), read, analysed, studied (even just in the casual way we all do) are incapable of having valid opinions that contradict even the very best managers. Or that even the very best managers aren't capable of making odd and poor decisions.

It is kind of what this place is all about, no?

Again, I take all your points, they're valid. But ... I really think (as I've tried to explain in other posts) that Poch has earned a bit of slack from us supporters. He's doing a great job, and currently we're winning. Let's celebrate that, rather than chipping away at details. Supporters will argue (and have always argued) about the validity of particular substitutions. I still feel that a top manager like Poch is in a much better position to judge these things than we will ever be. For a start, he knows things about individual players that we cannot possibly know - motivation levels, minor injuries, etc. etc. Trust the man a bit more, he's taking us to heights that we've almost never been at before. At least wait until he fucks it up before pointing out what a terrible job he's doing. That's just my opinion, of course.

 

[coys200]

Worst commentator I’ve ever heard. Think it was Paul Dempsey. My favourites were. “Rochdale are rampant” after hit the post. “Rochdale encamped in spurs half” after one corner. “Rose showing great strength” when it was KWP. Actually first time I have ever muted a commentator.

 

[mpickard2087]

I see what you're saying obviously BC, but I fail to see why it's necessary to keep chipping away at MoPo in this way. How can an armchair fan like yourself (or myself for that matter) make a better judgement call on what substitutions are needed in any given situation than the manager who works with these players week in week out? It simply makes no sense. We tend to allow our emotions as fans to cloud our judgement too much, I feel - and your judgement on things is sometimes spot on, I have to say. But, really, the manager? What could he possibly be doing better? Or to put it another way, with the money, the power and the players at his disposal how could he (and his team) realistically be expected to achieve more than they are already achieving. OK, as we keep hearing, they (we) have 't won anything yet? But they've certainly done their utmost to put Spurs in a position where a trophy is a realistic prospect this season. And there is a definite sense that the club as a whole is growing and developing almost on a daily basis. I'm completely satisfied with that (so far) - I would personally be inclined to wait until the team start actually playing badly / and/or start losing to teams they should really be beating before criticising the management team. Overall, they are doing an absolutely outstanding job, and it seems to me that isn't always sufficiently recognised on this site.

It is fans giving opinions and calling what they would do. It could be right, wrong, or just different, but they are just calling it as they see it. A lot of people just don't seem to have patience for anyone discussing tactics/selections etc and win/lose/draw don't comprehend that some people would do something differently. Whereas other stuff, like the vast majority of this forum playing fantasy football manager and dreaming of who to sign is apparently all good. Different strokes for different folks and all that.

I also think most on here miss the point that this thread each week is for discussing the 90 minutes of football that have taken place. Obviously there are still some miserable bastards who are hard to please (such as myself...) but you can still think the manager is doing a good job on the whole whilst not rating the performance that week, even in a win, or seeing things that happen over multiple matches (and they might all be victories) that you don't like and I don't see why people cant give there opinions on it. I think people also get knocked for being consistent with their viewpoint, but if you see something you personally don't like each week then why should they stop saying it? The site wouldn't exist otherwise.

To be honest there is plenty I still think this club could do better and/or what I would do differently, we could win the league and I still would. Opinions though, and that's the whole point of the site.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I've been on this site for years, but I don't post as regularly as some. I've read BC's posts for years too. A lot of what he says is spot on, but sometimes I think he gets overly caught up in personal opinions which appear to be set in stone and don't change in response to changing realities. Poch isn't wrong. Everything I've observed about his development as a manager (especially since he's been at Spurs) suggests to me that he is very much going in the right direction. How could anyone think otherwise? I don't get it.

This idea that my opinions are intransigent is a bit of a myth, honestly. As is often the case, people never remember the many times my opinions have altered drastically. If you want some recent examples, try Alli - (I've been highly critical of him and highly praised him within 7 days of each other) Son, (would have happily offloaded him after 12 months) Trippier, Davies, (would happily have sold both at the beginning of last year, Davies as late as this summer - didn't rate either at the time much) Wanyama (didn't want us to buy him, thought he was much more limited than he actually is and thought Poc was buying him to be back up to Dier and I'd rather have had a proper "8" at the time). First couple of times I watched Sanchez I posted that I thought he looked like a bit of a Bambi on ice. And you could go on and on. Like many on here I doubted Kane would ever be PL level, let alone the world class uber phenomenon he is now. They are just some recent ones. I wanted us to sign Huddlestone, but then after watching him with us, realised he was deeply flawed. And there are many, many other things I've openly changed or altered my views on, and said so.

Even Walker, I spent most of his last two years with us just saying "defensively he's now pretty solid, offensively he gets up and down well but he's still very wasteful", but that just wasn't enough for some. But what else can I say if that's how I see it. I was even more scathing of Trippier (and would have sold him ahead of Walker two years ago) but once I saw him play a string of games, I realised he's actually quite an intelligent little footballer who's delivery In forward areas is much more composed than Walker's.

Some players do improve with coaching/eperience/game time. Some players you need to watch regularly to get a better opinion. Some players just don't fundamentally change. Good or bad. And if they don't, then my opinion fundamentally won't. And it's those that seem to play into the BC's set in stone narrative.

 

[PLTuck]

This idea that my opinions are intransigent is a bit of a myth, honestly. As is often the case, people never remember the many times my opinions have altered drastically. If you want some recent examples, try Alli - (I've been highly critical of him and highly praised him within 7 days of each other) Son, (would have happily offloaded him after 12 months) Trippier, Davies, (would happily have sold both at the beginning of last year, Davies as late as this summer - didn't rate either at the time much) Wanyama (didn't want us to buy him, thought he was much more limited than he actually is and thought Poc was buying him to be back up to Dier and I'd rather have had a proper "8" at the time). First couple of times I watched Sanchez I posted that I thought he looked like a bit of a Bambi on ice. And you could go on and on. Like many on here I doubted Kane would ever be PL level, let alone the world class uber phenomenon he is now. They are just some recent ones. I wanted us to sign Huddlestone, but then after watching him with us, realised he was deeply flawed. And there are many, many other things I've openly changed or altered my views on, and said so.

Even Walker, I spent most of his last two years with us just saying "defensively he's now pretty solid, but offensively he gets up and down well but he's still very wasteful", but that just wasn't enough for some. But what else can I say if that's how I see it. I was even more scathing of Trippier (and would have sold him ahead of Walker two years ago) but once I saw him play a string of games, I realised he's actually quite an intelligent little footballer who's delivery on forward areas is much more composed than Walker's.

Some players just don't fundamentally change. Good or bad. And if they don't, then my opinion fundamentally won't. And it's those that seem to play into the BC's set in stone narrative.

I for one stand corrected

 

[SlotBadger]

I for one stand corrected

...said the man in the orthopaedic shoes.

 

[mark87]

Worst commentator I’ve ever heard. Think it was Paul Dempsey. My favourites were. “Rochdale are rampant” after hit the post. “Rochdale encamped in spurs half” after one corner. “Rose showing great strength” when it was KWP. Actually first time I have ever muted a commentator.

He's been terrible for years, he does boxing commentary too and is awful, knows nothing.

 

[Dharmabum]

If anyone else than Llortente had scored a hat-trick he would have won the MOTM award hands down - despite of having an otherwise "poor" game.

 

[midspur]

Kept on calling Moura, Moira - I really do dislike that man.

I’m pretty certain the other commentator ( don’t know his name) called KWP Dennis towards the end of the match