Ratings vs Sunderland

MOM

  • Lloris

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Dier

    Votes: 3 1.3%
  • Kaboul

    Votes: 1 0.4%
  • Chiriches

    Votes: 1 0.4%
  • Rose

    Votes: 8 3.4%
  • Capoue

    Votes: 8 3.4%
  • Dembele

    Votes: 89 37.9%
  • Lamela

    Votes: 68 28.9%
  • Eriksen

    Votes: 23 9.8%
  • Chadli

    Votes: 28 11.9%
  • Adebayor

    Votes: 1 0.4%
  • Stambouli

    Votes: 2 0.9%
  • Kane

    Votes: 1 0.4%
  • Lennon

    Votes: 2 0.9%

  • Total voters
    235

Flashspur

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2012
Messages
5,469
#61
A very comfortable game for us from the stats and it seemed even easier from the armchair view. I just thought that Poch’s comments were spot on. We didn’t kill the game off when we should have and the result is all the more disappointing for that reason.

Now the criticisms. The Poch philosophy is taking shape. The green shoots are there. This was a better performance then any of the ones under the two managers last season. We looked like a team and some of the passing was silky. The interchanges were also superb at times. I agree with the earlier comment by @mpickard2087 that we need to be better without the ball. The collective movement broke down at times and we looked static waiting for someone else in the team to restart the flow. While some players press, Lamela in particular, others have not mastered the art and its is a haphazard process. As a team I think our pressing game still has a long way to go. While we stroked the ball around and kept possession, we need to turn the possession into goals and I thought we lacked that killer instinct to take the game by the scruff of the neck even when we were dominating. Good teams dont squander the opportunities that come from such dominant possession.

So to the positives, when we do get our A Game together, as we did a number of times in the match, we look positively unplayable. This is definitely a work in progress but some of the passing and interchange and movement between players was superb. However, even though the fluidity breaks down, it is going to come together and that is the most positive thing I saw against Sunderland. The engine is starting to move smoothly but there are still a few jerky gear shifts. Yes, a very definite work in progress but a bloody pleasing one.

I thought Eriksen had a superb game, controlling the flow and showing the awareness that he has to press as well. He is my MOTM.

Lamela and Dembele were immense and come closely behind. Strong performances from Chadli, Ade, Rose, Capoue and Chiriches. Rose looked superb on the attack and looks a different player under Poch. Dier looked skittish and lacking confidence when being run at and he is not a RB but the lad put in a good shift even though he was culpable for their goal. Kaboul had some poor moments but generally kept Wickham quiet. Lloris did not have much to do and was blindsided by what I thought were deflections for both goals.

A nice little cameo from Stambouli when he came on. He shows good movement and awareness and likes to tackle. I feel sorry for Harry but the whole team will learn from this and Poch will have them sorting these mistakes out on Monday in training.

All in all, a great team performance showing marked improvement overall. I think things are looking bright and we are on the way to getting our Tottenham back! Lets just be patient as fans and let Poch develop these lads. There are a lot of youngsters in the side and it will take time, but the progress so far is very pleasing!
 

Spurs_Bear

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
14,180
#62
Naughton finally got a run of games for us last season and did excellent vs Konoplyanka, Redmond, Schurrle, Cazorla, and JRod, to name a few. He was brilliant for us in the 2nd half of last season but because it's Naughton everyone has forgetten, he's back to being shite, and Dier is the new Cafu because he's scored twice.
Konoplyanka made Naughton look silly, as he would most RBs, here are the results in the other games you mentioned.

Norwich 1-0 Tottenham
Chelsea 4-0 Tottenham
Tottenham 0-1 Arsenal
Tottenham 3-2 Southampton (2 goals from direct mistakes by Naughton)

Pretty baffling selection of situations to claim were Naughton's good points against certain players, and you're totally wrong about Dier being caught by Remy, maybe you feel Naughton is being bullied and want to stick up for him? Dier isn't a right back, that's pretty clear, but as he's certainly no worse than Naughton and twice as talented a footballer I can see why we are persisting with him until Walker gets fit.
 

Dan Yeats

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Messages
2,796
#63
Ten for everyone, because that's the football I want to see our club playing. The result didn't come right yesterday, but I was finally watching my Tottenham again. :cool:
 
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Strikeb4ck

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2010
Messages
3,474
#64
Konoplyanka made Naughton look silly, as he would most RBs, here are the results in the other games you mentioned.

Norwich 1-0 Tottenham
Chelsea 4-0 Tottenham
Tottenham 0-1 Arsenal
Tottenham 3-2 Southampton (2 goals from direct mistakes by Naughton)

Pretty baffling selection of situations to claim were Naughton's good points against certain players, and you're totally wrong about Dier being caught by Remy, maybe you feel Naughton is being bullied and want to stick up for him? Dier isn't a right back, that's pretty clear, but as he's certainly no worse than Naughton and twice as talented a footballer I can see why we are persisting with him until Walker gets fit.
The results from those games aren't the important part. I'm talking about an individual player. Eriksen was brilliant for us in many games that we didn't pick up points in last season, it's not like those results are his fault either. We had a woefully demotivated squad last season, managed by two people who didn't seem to have a clue.

Naughton did not get made to look silly by Kono, in fact he beat him 1v1 on more than one occasion. I kept a close eye on that matchup all game (as I've been a big proponent of signing Konoplyanka, just check the transfer thread). Naughton did remarkably well, sure he got beat once or twice each game - I remember one point where he slipped and Kono got through, but he defended him about as well as I've seen anyone do. Konoplyanka made Walker "look silly" (vs England), not Naughton.

Naughton did have his two defensive mistakes vs Southampton but neither had anything to do with his defending vs Rodriguez, and that is the point I'm making here. Naughton is a much more solid right back than Dier. Dier has been beaten every time he's faced a pacy player on the wing. It's not his fault, that's just not his game and he's still young to boot. Don't know how you can say I'm wrong about Remy, watch the last 20 minutes and Remy gets by Dier every time...and for what it's worth, Dier also got beat by Caulker on every single set piece in that game.

I do stick up for Naughton because he's a very underrated player who gets judged off of LB appearances 2 years ago. Dier is not "far more talented" than Naughton. Naughton is our best fullback technically and has an excellent footballing brain, for example, he's played many good through balls in his playing time. He's a very solid 1v1 defender, he has to be because he doesn't have the recovery pace of Walker or Rose.
 

Spurs_Bear

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
14,180
#65
The results from those games aren't the important part. I'm talking about an individual player. Eriksen was brilliant for us in many games that we didn't pick up points in last season, it's not like those results are his fault either. We had a woefully demotivated squad last season, managed by two people who didn't seem to have a clue.

Naughton did not get made to look silly by Kono, in fact he beat him 1v1 on more than one occasion. I kept a close eye on that matchup all game (as I've been a big proponent of signing Konoplyanka, just check the transfer thread). Naughton did remarkably well, sure he got beat once or twice each game - I remember one point where he slipped and Kono got through, but he defended him about as well as I've seen anyone do. Konoplyanka made Walker "look silly" (vs England), not Naughton.

Naughton did have his two defensive mistakes vs Southampton but neither had anything to do with his defending vs Rodriguez, and that is the point I'm making here. Naughton is a much more solid right back than Dier. Dier has been beaten every time he's faced a pacy player on the wing. It's not his fault, that's just not his game and he's still young to boot. Don't know how you can say I'm wrong about Remy, watch the last 20 minutes and Remy gets by Dier every time...and for what it's worth, Dier also got beat by Caulker on every single set piece in that game.

I do stick up for Naughton because he's a very underrated player who gets judged off of LB appearances 2 years ago. Dier is not "far more talented" than Naughton. Naughton is our best fullback technically and has an excellent footballing brain, for example, he's played many good through balls in his playing time. He's a very solid 1v1 defender, he has to be because he doesn't have the recovery pace of Walker or Rose.
I'm sure Naughton would have been better against Caulker, the man mountain at set pieces?! Haha.

Look, it's commendable that you're defending Naughton when so many, myself included think he's a joke, but it really is flogging a dead horse, saying Naughton got the better of Kono is hilarious. Naughton is not very underrated, he's a middle of the road pro who has had a nothing career, he's 26 for god sake and the best he can do is as back up to our back up RB? As I said very commendable but very off target praise, massively overhyped 'he was brilliant for us in the second half of last season' just so far wide of the mark.
 

Japhet

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Joined
Aug 30, 2010
Messages
6,971
#69
Capoue and Dembele looked very solid. Dembele looks hungry and will hopefully get a run. Lamela worked very hard and put himself about. Would prefer to see Dier at CB though. Lamela MOM for me.
 

Spurs_Bear

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
14,180
#71
Naughton isn't the long term solution but he's a better rb than Dier.

How much of Fazio have you seen ?
Id wager a lot more than you've seen as Dier at CB...

Regardless, it's not about Dier/Kaboul/Fazio, it's about not wanting a sub standard footballer in our defence.
 
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Bulletspur

The Reasonable Advocate
Joined
Oct 17, 2006
Messages
7,054
Thread starter #72
Dier is not a right back, he is covering for the injured walker. Cut him a little slack he is still better than naughton
IMO as a right back he is not. Disagree all you want.
Ok we will agree to disagree then. What would you think if we swapped him with kaboul and played him as right back?
If it was a choice between the three, I would have Dier at CB and Naughton RB and Kaboul benched.
I'd rather have naughton at rb and Dier at Cb instead of Kaboul right now
Glad I am not the only one who sees it this way
 

stevenqoz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2006
Messages
2,638
#73
Lloris 6.5
Dier 6.5
Kaboul 6
Vlad 6.5
Rose 6
Capoue 7
Lamela 7
Dembele 7.5
Eriksen 7.5
Chadli 7
Ade 6.5
Stambouli 6
Kane 5
Lennon 5
The message from this game is don't swagger before you have daylight between you and the opposition....2 or 3 goals!
We did looka very accomplished side for long periods but lack the killer edge. One personal moan. How can professional coaches not see the benefit of putting players on the posts at set pieces?
 

DJS

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2006
Messages
23,947
#74
Fuck sake some people on here...

Oh no Adebayor didn't score 6 goals or set any up yeah let's play Soldado who has always done MUCH better (big lols) or I know let's throw Harry Kane in instead...

Adebayor scores goals, contributes lots to the team but that will just never be enough for some.
 

mpickard2087

Fantastic Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2008
Messages
19,635
#76
Can anyone, especially maybe @mpickard2087 who was there, confirm that we switched to a 433 when Stambouli came on for Chadli ?
From what I watched, not really. There were times Dembele ended up alongside the other two but for the most part I thought he was definitely pushed higher up and when this happened he stopped seeing the ball and stopped tracking back.

It was at this point that I thought we lost our control. The switch(es) just seemed to leave us a bit shapeless. Dembele pushed forward, Lamela came out to a position loosely on the left and without Chadli we lost any semblance of width and option to try and stretch the play a bit, also the fullbacks didn't even look to get forward in the last 20 mins or so which just added to it.

There were other factors at play, some players looked like they tired and Poyet made a couple of positive tactical changes in my opinion for example, that allowed them to gain a foothold towards the end, but the tactical tinkering and tipping the balance to having too many players looking to do the same things didn't really work on the day.

Having said all that I liked Stambouli's cameo...
 
Joined
Oct 19, 2004
Messages
39,837
#77
From what I watched, not really. There were times Dembele ended up alongside the other two but for the most part I thought he was definitely pushed higher up and when this happened he stopped seeing the ball and stopped tracking back.

It was at this point that I thought we lost our control. The switch(es) just seemed to leave us a bit shapeless. Dembele pushed forward, Lamela came out to a position loosely on the left and without Chadli we lost any semblance of width and option to try and stretch the play a bit, also the fullbacks didn't even look to get forward in the last 20 mins or so which just added to it.

There were other factors at play, some players looked like they tired and Poyet made a couple of positive tactical changes in my opinion for example, that allowed them to gain a foothold towards the end, but the tactical tinkering and tipping the balance to having too many players looking to do the same things didn't really work on the day.

Having said all that I liked Stambouli's cameo...

I actually thought they worked well enough and was the right thing to do. Cut off any late surge at source with Stambouli/Dembele/Capuoe clogging the central midfield area, and Sunderland weren't looking like creating a thing, despite bringing on attacking subs and giving it their best shot.

The goal was such a soft one (both were really) and it was really only after the boost of the goal that they got any kind of momentum.

What formation would you say we finished in, with who/where ?
 

mpickard2087

Fantastic Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2008
Messages
19,635
#78
I actually thought they worked well enough and was the right thing to do. Cut off any late surge at source with Stambouli/Dembele/Capuoe clogging the central midfield area, and Sunderland weren't looking like creating a thing, despite bringing on attacking subs and giving it their best shot.

The goal was such a soft one (both were really) and it was really only after the boost of the goal that they got any kind of momentum.

What formation would you say we finished in, with who/where ?
After the Chadli sub:

Dier Kaboul Chiriches Rose
Capoue Stambouli
Eriksen Dembele Lamela
Adebayor
Then Kane and Lennon subs were straight swaps - Lennon swapping wings with Lamela briefly in the few minutes he was on.

I agree it was on paper the right thing to do, I just think we ended up clogging things up a bit too much, both with and without the ball. We ended up with no real width and just centrally playing keep ball with little purpose. It didn't help that Dembele (a little) and Adebayor (massively, for most of the second half) tired and went out of the game so we didn't have much presence up top either. I agree Sunderland didn't create too much but I think we gave them just enough of an opening to gain some foothold towards the end, we had certainly lost the comfort and control of holding them at arms length that we had for most of the game.

I'd have sacrificed one of Lamela/Eriksen and kept Chadli on at that point if I made that change, albeit easy to make with the benefit of hindsight.
 

ShaunL84

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Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Messages
2,680
#79
Loved the way Chiriches tries to take on opposing forward near our own box.
That's what Tottenham Hotspur was built on.. style and Chiriches plays the Tottenham way.

My favorite player.
 

Bulletspur

The Reasonable Advocate
Joined
Oct 17, 2006
Messages
7,054
Thread starter #80
Fuck sake some people on here...

Oh no Adebayor didn't score 6 goals or set any up yeah let's play Soldado who has always done MUCH better (big lols) or I know let's throw Harry Kane in instead...

Adebayor scores goals, contributes lots to the team but that will just never be enough for some.
Unbunch your knickers! I was basing my assessment on Ade's performance yesterday against Sunderland. If you were satisfied with it, good for you, I wasn't . He can and has done better. Its called a ratings thread, or do want that explained as well?
 
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