Ratings vs WBA
- Thread starter Chris12
- Start date
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2004
- Messages
- 39,176
Are we sitting comfortably ?
I should have been, but I couldn't. Because despite having way more of the ball and cruising to a 2-0 lead, I found myself getting increasingly vexed by our penchant for completely needless carelessness. Carelessness in possession that saw numerous good situations evaporate, carelessness out of possession that heaped completely unnecessary pressure on our goal.
In terms of situations created, 3-0 flattered us and did not tell the whole story of that game. I'm struggling to think of many quality chances we created in open play. Two of our goals were set pieces. West Brom could easily have got something out of it had they scored when they had the momentum for 25 minutes before half time or early in the second half. If Lloris wasn't on form or their finishing had been better.
I'm assuming/hoping Fazio and Paulinho were in to keep other legs fresh. If so, it's reasonable management of resources. Those two playing instead of other options isn't necessarily a tactical positive, but taking a pragmatic short term personnel decision for the long term good, is.
There are other tactical positives. Kane played in his best role as the lone striker. It seems simple but Dembele pushed up into the more advanced remit means that along with Erikisen's newly coach inspired work ethic and Lamela's ever willingness to chase and harass, we now have a front four of busy ****edness. Vital for Mopo's system to have any chance of working. I like Dembele up there because he's much better dribbling in the final third than the middle one and he is a diligent and tenacious worker, meaning we have a stronger spine with him behind Kane.
I'd have had Paulinho off at around the 60 minute mark but, to be fair, he kind of grew into the game and in the end proved me wrong, finishing the game pretty strongly.
Eriksen once again came up with beautiful free kick and is really weighing in with his share of goals (many vital), and I am loving that he works much harder for the team, but I have been a little disappointed with his creative output throughout this season. His overall contribution is still damn good, I just think his final decision pass in attacking situations has been a little careless and, of all people, I expect better from him. We need him to be creating for others a little more than he has been.
Something else that has irked me frequently is when Walker bombs on, then the play stalls and the CM's have the ball, there are times when he just stands behind or close to their LB, meaning the the CM can't risk the pass to him and is forced to turn back inside into the congestion. I've noticed Rose do this at times too. They need to read the situation and retreat a few yards and make sure they offer an outlet. They are both willing runners, and are both involved in the game throughout, just a bit of common sense and diligence.
I guess we (I) do have to factor in that we played a pretty tough semi final 3 days prior to this and accept that mental and physical fatigue will be a factor and under those conditions, 3-0 away to a Pulis West Brom is a pretty decent knock. It still just irks me how easily we go from complete control to flying by the seat of our pants and the utter abject carelessness thing drives me fucking bonkers.
Lots of familiar tropes individually:
Lloris - Very good performance. Great saves at crucial times.
Walker - A pretty normal day at the office. Lots of energetic stuff, some good moments and some daft stuff.
Fazio - Some good stuff, a sublime bit of skill when he lifted the ball over their guy, but also a careless back pass that should have been more costly.
Vertonghen - Good game. Great block just before one of Lloris's saves.
Rose - Decent game. Brilliant tackle near the line at 3-0.
Mason - decent game.
Paulinho - Good first 20 and last 30, bit ploddy in the middle.
Lamela - Didn't provide much creative magic but put in a good shift. 48 passes at 96% and plenty of work off the ball is an acceptable fall back for an ARM when the creativity is lacking.
Dembele - Did well for the assist, worked hard for the team. Pretty Good game.
Eriksen - Scored another cracking free kick, worked hard, bit disappointing creatively at decisive moments.
Kane - Graft, great finish, bit head down once or twice but a good game generally.
I should have been, but I couldn't. Because despite having way more of the ball and cruising to a 2-0 lead, I found myself getting increasingly vexed by our penchant for completely needless carelessness. Carelessness in possession that saw numerous good situations evaporate, carelessness out of possession that heaped completely unnecessary pressure on our goal.
In terms of situations created, 3-0 flattered us and did not tell the whole story of that game. I'm struggling to think of many quality chances we created in open play. Two of our goals were set pieces. West Brom could easily have got something out of it had they scored when they had the momentum for 25 minutes before half time or early in the second half. If Lloris wasn't on form or their finishing had been better.
I'm assuming/hoping Fazio and Paulinho were in to keep other legs fresh. If so, it's reasonable management of resources. Those two playing instead of other options isn't necessarily a tactical positive, but taking a pragmatic short term personnel decision for the long term good, is.
There are other tactical positives. Kane played in his best role as the lone striker. It seems simple but Dembele pushed up into the more advanced remit means that along with Erikisen's newly coach inspired work ethic and Lamela's ever willingness to chase and harass, we now have a front four of busy ****edness. Vital for Mopo's system to have any chance of working. I like Dembele up there because he's much better dribbling in the final third than the middle one and he is a diligent and tenacious worker, meaning we have a stronger spine with him behind Kane.
I'd have had Paulinho off at around the 60 minute mark but, to be fair, he kind of grew into the game and in the end proved me wrong, finishing the game pretty strongly.
Eriksen once again came up with beautiful free kick and is really weighing in with his share of goals (many vital), and I am loving that he works much harder for the team, but I have been a little disappointed with his creative output throughout this season. His overall contribution is still damn good, I just think his final decision pass in attacking situations has been a little careless and, of all people, I expect better from him. We need him to be creating for others a little more than he has been.
Something else that has irked me frequently is when Walker bombs on, then the play stalls and the CM's have the ball, there are times when he just stands behind or close to their LB, meaning the the CM can't risk the pass to him and is forced to turn back inside into the congestion. I've noticed Rose do this at times too. They need to read the situation and retreat a few yards and make sure they offer an outlet. They are both willing runners, and are both involved in the game throughout, just a bit of common sense and diligence.
I guess we (I) do have to factor in that we played a pretty tough semi final 3 days prior to this and accept that mental and physical fatigue will be a factor and under those conditions, 3-0 away to a Pulis West Brom is a pretty decent knock. It still just irks me how easily we go from complete control to flying by the seat of our pants and the utter abject carelessness thing drives me fucking bonkers.
Lots of familiar tropes individually:
Lloris - Very good performance. Great saves at crucial times.
Walker - A pretty normal day at the office. Lots of energetic stuff, some good moments and some daft stuff.
Fazio - Some good stuff, a sublime bit of skill when he lifted the ball over their guy, but also a careless back pass that should have been more costly.
Vertonghen - Good game. Great block just before one of Lloris's saves.
Rose - Decent game. Brilliant tackle near the line at 3-0.
Mason - decent game.
Paulinho - Good first 20 and last 30, bit ploddy in the middle.
Lamela - Didn't provide much creative magic but put in a good shift. 48 passes at 96% and plenty of work off the ball is an acceptable fall back for an ARM when the creativity is lacking.
Dembele - Did well for the assist, worked hard for the team. Pretty Good game.
Eriksen - Scored another cracking free kick, worked hard, bit disappointing creatively at decisive moments.
Kane - Graft, great finish, bit head down once or twice but a good game generally.
Last edited:
Surprised you're focusing on a lack of creativity from Eriksen rather than from Lamela, Beece. Given that you've acknowledged that both of them are working hard in pressing from the front recently, surely if a lack of attacking prowess needs highlighting in the front 4 then the spotlight should be falling on Erik rather than Eriksen?
(To qualify this post, as I do with many posts about Lamela, I do think that there's a potential Premier League great player waiting to emerge in Erik, in the same way that I don't think there is in Soldado and Paulinho. But I want to see much more end product from Lamela - end product that Eriksen has in spades - and I don't think his general non-goalscoring-related attacking play is better than Eriksen's, hence why I'm surprised that you've brought the point up for our number 23 rather than our number 11.)
(To qualify this post, as I do with many posts about Lamela, I do think that there's a potential Premier League great player waiting to emerge in Erik, in the same way that I don't think there is in Soldado and Paulinho. But I want to see much more end product from Lamela - end product that Eriksen has in spades - and I don't think his general non-goalscoring-related attacking play is better than Eriksen's, hence why I'm surprised that you've brought the point up for our number 23 rather than our number 11.)
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2004
- Messages
- 39,176
There's no doubt who's the more valuable to the team of the two right now, I just expect more from Eriksen in terms of creating for others, I think as a footballer he is more intelligent and has a better developed/more composed footballing brain than Lamela so expect a bit more from him in that respect.
I think Lamela has more assists than Eriksen despite playing much less football, and most games seems to create one or two decent chances for people, Eriksen doesn't seem to have been doing that this season.
None of our creative players are creating enough, and I include Mason and the full backs in that, but Eriksen is tyne most intelligent of that bunch and would hope he'd have more than 1 assist at this stage of the season.
I understand this point but where I would agree with BC, is that Eriksen has properly arrived in this League, Lamela hasn't yet. He's working hard, and showing glimpses of quality here and there but he's yet to put it all together really - in the League anyway. Of course we should remain patient because I firmly believe this kid will become a very good player for us.
But back to Eriksen, his end product in terms of goals is obviously fantastic, and I know this sounds ultra critical, but he could be doing a bit better in some attacking situations. He's exceptionally talented and has the ability to deliver consistent incisive passing. He's a pure creator, with a real eye for goal, but there's much more to come in terms of creative output for others IMO.
Sounds ridiculous I know, but he's more in his locker in terms of creating IMO.
But back to Eriksen, his end product in terms of goals is obviously fantastic, and I know this sounds ultra critical, but he could be doing a bit better in some attacking situations. He's exceptionally talented and has the ability to deliver consistent incisive passing. He's a pure creator, with a real eye for goal, but there's much more to come in terms of creative output for others IMO.
Sounds ridiculous I know, but he's more in his locker in terms of creating IMO.
I gave MOTM to Dembele, he won the free kick and provided an assist, on the whole a very good game. Lloris was amazing, but we won 3-0 so didn't want to give it to him, he has enough of those awards this season! Truly outstanding GK. Kane and Eriksen again very good games.
I was very happy with Lamela's performance, great to see him get stuck in, pressed very well, kept possession much better than he has previously and got involved plenty. The magic will come in other games, this game he showed that he is suited to the premier league. I personally thought walker had a good game too, got forward well, and won the penalty - seems to be rated on the low side generally.
Everyone else was decent, don't think anyone had a bad game.
Fans were awesome btw, I could here them singing all game nearly non stop.
I was very happy with Lamela's performance, great to see him get stuck in, pressed very well, kept possession much better than he has previously and got involved plenty. The magic will come in other games, this game he showed that he is suited to the premier league. I personally thought walker had a good game too, got forward well, and won the penalty - seems to be rated on the low side generally.
Everyone else was decent, don't think anyone had a bad game.
Fans were awesome btw, I could here them singing all game nearly non stop.
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2013
- Messages
- 575
8-9 for Dembele, Eriksen, Kane and Lloris.
7 or thereabout for the rest.
Eriksen has shown much improvements from his earlier plays in the season. He is now hardworking and willing to put himself about on the opponents.
Stambouli and Dembele have recently shown to play at a better rate in recent games. This is a very good sign. Same goes with Fazio. He is not as slow as what many seem to say. Chadli has shown improvements since beginning of the season.
I predict that Paulinho, Lamela and even Soldado to be the next 3 to improve their games at a more consistent level......Paulinho has actually shown some improvements in the last 3-4 games where he played in a "Cameo" appearance....
Hopefully Walker will be a much better defender by the end of the season.
And not forget the much improvements with Kane, Bentaleb, Mason and Rose.......
After seeing all these improvements, i am happy to see out the season and see/gauge the improvements of all the first team players.......If all these players can improve further, it will make an easier decision in the summer (Just to bring in that Forward/Striker that will fit into MoPo's plans/philosophies. And also another CB)
7 or thereabout for the rest.
Eriksen has shown much improvements from his earlier plays in the season. He is now hardworking and willing to put himself about on the opponents.
Stambouli and Dembele have recently shown to play at a better rate in recent games. This is a very good sign. Same goes with Fazio. He is not as slow as what many seem to say. Chadli has shown improvements since beginning of the season.
I predict that Paulinho, Lamela and even Soldado to be the next 3 to improve their games at a more consistent level......Paulinho has actually shown some improvements in the last 3-4 games where he played in a "Cameo" appearance....
Hopefully Walker will be a much better defender by the end of the season.
And not forget the much improvements with Kane, Bentaleb, Mason and Rose.......
After seeing all these improvements, i am happy to see out the season and see/gauge the improvements of all the first team players.......If all these players can improve further, it will make an easier decision in the summer (Just to bring in that Forward/Striker that will fit into MoPo's plans/philosophies. And also another CB)
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2014
- Messages
- 9,901
I most often agree with mainly everything you are saying, but when it comes to Fazio I beg to differ.
I am fully aware of his weakness, which mainly is that he he is slightly error prone. But so are all our defenders.
However, apart from his one blatant mistake a game, he stops the opponent from scoring every time he plays. His arial capacity alone is second to none in the league. He is among our two best CB's, and that's why he plays.
I am fully aware of his weakness, which mainly is that he he is slightly error prone. But so are all our defenders.
However, apart from his one blatant mistake a game, he stops the opponent from scoring every time he plays. His arial capacity alone is second to none in the league. He is among our two best CB's, and that's why he plays.
Lloris - 8 - Outstanding as ever, made at least 3 worldie saves
Walker - 6 - Was sloppy in defence, more than once there was a man over in his position and he could have cost us a goal but going forward he was semi dangerous, still just coming back and hopefully will keep getting better
Fazio - 7 - He was generally solid and composed, looked classy on the ball but he drops way too deep when we are being attacked and makes things difficult for the rest of the defensive line to act as a unit
Vertonghen - 7 - He played very well today, defensively sound and was active in attack more than once
Rose - 7.5 - Thought he had a very good game, energetic going forward and committed in defensive. Impressive game
Mason - 6 - Not his best game, worked hard, bit sloppy with his distribution but put in a shift
Dembele - 8 - Played very well I thought, worked hard and kept possession well. Won the freekick from which Erkisen scored and played the pass to Kane which lead to our second. Quite the matchwinner today
Paulinho - 7 - Decent game, without doing anything significant he played well (especially second half) and contributed toward a great away performance and victory
Lamela - 6 - He worked hard, did nothing wrong as such but neither did he ever look like making anything happen. Ran around, tried to pressure off the ball, was decent when he had the ball but failed to make any real impression on the game. Often seemed to be running round in circles. He frustrates me because he's clearly so talented but he's first touch is generally woeful and he failed to beat a man today or ever really look like making anything happen and for £30m he should be looking like a bomber against teams like WBA in my opinion
Eriksen - 8 - Another great freekick goal - played well again and contributed to the win
Kane - 8 - My MOTM - he's a menace to defences and never gives a opponent an easy game. Took his goal very well and his penalty was near perfect and unsaveable into the inside netting even had the keeper dived the correct way. Love this kid
Stambouli - 6- Is starting to show potential to develop into a first team player. Not a lot of time yesterday and the game was all but one already but what he did do he did well and he's shaping up to becoming an asset who will appreciate in importance to us over time I think (especially against better teams when we need someone to battle in the middle of the park)
Chadli - 6 - Same as above really - not a lot of time and came in to a game already won but looked good in what he did. He's strong and was getting involved from set pieces, looked a threat when we had the attack too
Soldado -6 - Had even less time to make an impact and and never really got much of a chance to do anything. He looked decent when he did have the chance to do something, aside from a poor pass sprayed out to Lamela which was behind his run and wasted the chance to attack
I feel bad for thinking it but my initial reaction when I saw him replacing Kane was "we might as well have put one of the ball girls on"
Walker - 6 - Was sloppy in defence, more than once there was a man over in his position and he could have cost us a goal but going forward he was semi dangerous, still just coming back and hopefully will keep getting better
Fazio - 7 - He was generally solid and composed, looked classy on the ball but he drops way too deep when we are being attacked and makes things difficult for the rest of the defensive line to act as a unit
Vertonghen - 7 - He played very well today, defensively sound and was active in attack more than once
Rose - 7.5 - Thought he had a very good game, energetic going forward and committed in defensive. Impressive game
Mason - 6 - Not his best game, worked hard, bit sloppy with his distribution but put in a shift
Dembele - 8 - Played very well I thought, worked hard and kept possession well. Won the freekick from which Erkisen scored and played the pass to Kane which lead to our second. Quite the matchwinner today
Paulinho - 7 - Decent game, without doing anything significant he played well (especially second half) and contributed toward a great away performance and victory
Lamela - 6 - He worked hard, did nothing wrong as such but neither did he ever look like making anything happen. Ran around, tried to pressure off the ball, was decent when he had the ball but failed to make any real impression on the game. Often seemed to be running round in circles. He frustrates me because he's clearly so talented but he's first touch is generally woeful and he failed to beat a man today or ever really look like making anything happen and for £30m he should be looking like a bomber against teams like WBA in my opinion
Eriksen - 8 - Another great freekick goal - played well again and contributed to the win
Kane - 8 - My MOTM - he's a menace to defences and never gives a opponent an easy game. Took his goal very well and his penalty was near perfect and unsaveable into the inside netting even had the keeper dived the correct way. Love this kid
Stambouli - 6- Is starting to show potential to develop into a first team player. Not a lot of time yesterday and the game was all but one already but what he did do he did well and he's shaping up to becoming an asset who will appreciate in importance to us over time I think (especially against better teams when we need someone to battle in the middle of the park)
Chadli - 6 - Same as above really - not a lot of time and came in to a game already won but looked good in what he did. He's strong and was getting involved from set pieces, looked a threat when we had the attack too
Soldado -6 - Had even less time to make an impact and and never really got much of a chance to do anything. He looked decent when he did have the chance to do something, aside from a poor pass sprayed out to Lamela which was behind his run and wasted the chance to attack
I feel bad for thinking it but my initial reaction when I saw him replacing Kane was "we might as well have put one of the ball girls on"
- Joined
- May 5, 2004
- Messages
- 18,903
Great to see Dembele rejuvenated. Could be a really important factor in the second half of the season. Seems the position change has liberated him a bit, and he appears to understand what Poch is asking of him there. Still have my doubts about his shooting and final ball there, but until the summer a good option to have.
I can totally see what you're seeing here, I see it too, but assists are a highly variable measure. I recently wrote about Eriksen and what struck me was that his contribution to the team is remarkably consistent. Since he arrived he's been involved either by taking the shot or laying it on in over 5 shots a game and considering we're down about two shots a game this year, actually shows improvement. 5 shots a game is pretty much top class. Kane is doing similar in his short run in the team.
Regarding laying on chances, the only public measure we've got is 'key passes' and Eriksen is at 2.5 per 90 this year, again similar to his career output. League leaders here such as Fabregas or Nasri are averaging 3.1 or 3.2, so whilst behind, it's in the ball park. And I do appreciate the nuance that we're not measuring the quality of the shot laid on, but still where Eriksen is overachieving on goals, he's underachieving on assists. This may or may not continue but logically, he'll cool a little on goals and make a few more assists as the season goes on.
Or will he? We all remember the last guy we had that had a breakout year like this, and nobody complained about his lack of assists! Of course Bale, who became undeniably World Class in a very similar type of season to which Eriksen is currently having. Both a similar age, both having had immense promise, both using a season with us to really kick on. And that's where your criticism is clearly logical. We expected Bale to power forward and shoot, his game was based on strength, speed and power. Eriksen, being a slight lad with a lovely touch 'looks' like a creator, but if we can take anything from this it's that as long as the goals are channelling through them in some form or other, as long as they are involved in chance creation, then there's little to worry about.
FWIW, Lamela averages 1.9 KPs per90 and everyone else is scoring fewer, so there is definite room for improvement in the team.
Here's my article if you missed it:
http://statsbomb.com/2015/01/no-kane-no-gain-how-valuable-are-kane-and-eriksen/
Regarding laying on chances, the only public measure we've got is 'key passes' and Eriksen is at 2.5 per 90 this year, again similar to his career output. League leaders here such as Fabregas or Nasri are averaging 3.1 or 3.2, so whilst behind, it's in the ball park. And I do appreciate the nuance that we're not measuring the quality of the shot laid on, but still where Eriksen is overachieving on goals, he's underachieving on assists. This may or may not continue but logically, he'll cool a little on goals and make a few more assists as the season goes on.
Or will he? We all remember the last guy we had that had a breakout year like this, and nobody complained about his lack of assists! Of course Bale, who became undeniably World Class in a very similar type of season to which Eriksen is currently having. Both a similar age, both having had immense promise, both using a season with us to really kick on. And that's where your criticism is clearly logical. We expected Bale to power forward and shoot, his game was based on strength, speed and power. Eriksen, being a slight lad with a lovely touch 'looks' like a creator, but if we can take anything from this it's that as long as the goals are channelling through them in some form or other, as long as they are involved in chance creation, then there's little to worry about.
FWIW, Lamela averages 1.9 KPs per90 and everyone else is scoring fewer, so there is definite room for improvement in the team.
Here's my article if you missed it:
http://statsbomb.com/2015/01/no-kane-no-gain-how-valuable-are-kane-and-eriksen/
Last edited:
Lloris 9 Several world class saves
Walker 7.5 Some intelligent stuff from the speedster
Fazio 6 Not up to his recent improved standard
Vert 8 Calm....I'd give him the armband
Rose 7 Reasonable afternoon shift from Danny...Davies as competition is good for him
Eriksen 8 A lot of possession ...working on his Modric
Dembele 8 Played well... he gives us run as an alternative to pass pass
Mason 7.5 Over the injury...doing well centrally
Lamella 7 Saw lots of the ball...needs a right foot trick to avoid coming inside every time
Paulinho 7.5 A step up from the Brazilian...got involved
Kane 8.5 Fine game from Harry...Daniel seeing $$$$ signs?
Chadli 7 Good to see him back. Allows Eriksen to come central giving leftside balance
Stambouli 7 Improving every game....great for the squad
Soldado NET
Rarely do see an away side dominate possession and field position like this. Kept the ball like in a training drill. Poch made it clear that he wasn't happy once we started doing it seemingly without purpose. WBA had numerous chances but were never going to win the game....Lloris magic between the sticks. Looking healthy as a team
Walker 7.5 Some intelligent stuff from the speedster
Fazio 6 Not up to his recent improved standard
Vert 8 Calm....I'd give him the armband
Rose 7 Reasonable afternoon shift from Danny...Davies as competition is good for him
Eriksen 8 A lot of possession ...working on his Modric
Dembele 8 Played well... he gives us run as an alternative to pass pass
Mason 7.5 Over the injury...doing well centrally
Lamella 7 Saw lots of the ball...needs a right foot trick to avoid coming inside every time
Paulinho 7.5 A step up from the Brazilian...got involved
Kane 8.5 Fine game from Harry...Daniel seeing $$$$ signs?
Chadli 7 Good to see him back. Allows Eriksen to come central giving leftside balance
Stambouli 7 Improving every game....great for the squad
Soldado NET
Rarely do see an away side dominate possession and field position like this. Kept the ball like in a training drill. Poch made it clear that he wasn't happy once we started doing it seemingly without purpose. WBA had numerous chances but were never going to win the game....Lloris magic between the sticks. Looking healthy as a team