Ratings vs WBA

MOTM

  • Lloris

    Votes: 95 34.4%
  • Walker

    Votes: 1 0.4%
  • Faz

    Votes: 2 0.7%
  • Verts

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Rose

    Votes: 3 1.1%
  • Mason

    Votes: 1 0.4%
  • Paulinho

    Votes: 7 2.5%
  • Eriksen

    Votes: 49 17.8%
  • Dembele

    Votes: 26 9.4%
  • Lamela

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Kane

    Votes: 88 31.9%
  • Soldado

    Votes: 2 0.7%
  • Stambouli

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Chadlo

    Votes: 2 0.7%

  • Total voters
    276

THFCSPURS19

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
Messages
32,574
#61
Against a pub team. You are such a fan boy it is laughable. He had his best game for spurs yesterday and was still one dimensional. I think poch is trying to intergrate him in to the team which is understandable.
:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Stop acting like you've seen all my posts on Lamela. I have criticised him on numerous occasions, and there was a time where everybody thought he was good but I disagreed. But believe what you want.


Bore off with the pub team shit as well. So do Kane's goals not count in the EL as well? We also struggled in the EL as well, and you clearly have this archaic view that every team is utter shit and should be thrashed.

The fact that it was in the EL makes no difference whatsoever.

If I'm a 'fan boy' then you're not a proper fan if you can't even commend him for that goal. Pathetic.
 

225

Living in hope, existing in disappointment
Joined
Dec 15, 2014
Messages
4,564
#65
I read on a match report, might have been BBC or Sky, that they gave Soldado a '4' out of 10.

Though that was a bit harsh, he was only on the pitch for 5 minutes and didn't seem to do any wrong.
 

Rout-Ledge

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2005
Messages
6,125
#66
Against a pub team. You are such a fan boy it is laughable. He had his best game for spurs yesterday and was still one dimensional. I think poch is trying to intergrate him in to the team which is understandable.
You must've missed the game against QPR. By far his best in the PL for us.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Joined
Oct 19, 2004
Messages
39,765
#67
I can totally see what you're seeing here, I see it too, but assists are a highly variable measure. I recently wrote about Eriksen and what struck me was that his contribution to the team is remarkably consistent. Since he arrived he's been involved either by taking the shot or laying it on in over 5 shots a game and considering we're down about two shots a game this year, actually shows improvement. 5 shots a game is pretty much top class. Kane is doing similar in his short run in the team.

Regarding laying on chances, the only public measure we've got is 'key passes' and Eriksen is at 2.5 per 90 this year, again similar to his career output. League leaders here such as Fabregas or Nasri are averaging 3.1 or 3.2, so whilst behind, it's in the ball park. And I do appreciate the nuance that we're not measuring the quality of the shot laid on, but still where Eriksen is overachieving on goals, he's underachieving on assists. This may or may not continue but logically, he'll cool a little on goals and make a few more assists as the season goes on.

Or will he? We all remember the last guy we had that had a breakout year like this, and nobody complained about his lack of assists! Of course Bale, who became undeniably World Class in a very similar type of season to which Eriksen is currently having. Both a similar age, both having had immense promise, both using a season with us to really kick on. And that's where your criticism is clearly logical. We expected Bale to power forward and shoot, his game was based on strength, speed and power. Eriksen, being a slight lad with a lovely touch 'looks' like a creator, but if we can take anything from this it's that as long as the goals are channelling through them in some form or other, as long as they are involved in chance creation, then there's little to worry about.

FWIW, Lamela averages 1.9 KPs per90 and everyone else is scoring fewer, so there is definite room for improvement in the team.

Here's my article if you missed it:

http://statsbomb.com/2015/01/no-kane-no-gain-how-valuable-are-kane-and-eriksen/

I absolutely appreciate the fallibility of assist stats, and would welcome redefining of this stat to separate a two yard square pass at 20 yards out that then gets fired into the net majestically (barely worthy an assist IMO) from the visionary through ball that splits a defence. To me, the latter deserves a category all of it's own and should count regardless of whether the chance is buried or not. That action in itself is the act of genius that we should be measuring and recording, and should not be dependent on the subsequent action to qualify it. Even the KP(Key Pass) stat is too vague.

I had not read your article before, very much enjoyed it, particularly the Kane piece. I took issue with a couple of things in the Eriksen piece. I don't think AVB was harsh on Eriksen (which is what I think your article inferred), I think he was working with the younger, new to this league and country Eriksen, the one that also had to fit into a Spurs in a complete state of flux having lost all it's best players and signed a load of players new to the league. His performances weren't always great and his work rate wasn't either, you can suffer one but not both and I have no problem with a coach benching any player who isn't working hard enough. I think Pochettino is similarly meritocratic and that early lesson for Eriksen and and the same attitude from Pochettino has made him realise that his form can alter, but his application can't, and this is standing him in very good stead now.

The other thing was the lin:

"He generally makes very good decisions and this can sometimes make it appear that he isn’t attempting to dominate"

My issue this season has been that he isn't making enough of those or, more pertinently, his execution of those decisions has been wanting at times.

For me, there has been a massive payoff with the goals he is scoring and the effort he is putting in. I'm not disappointed with Eriksen at all, in a general sense, who would be, but I was really bullish about us signing Eriksen for a long time, and the main reason for that was that I saw him as someone who could provide us with something we lacked desperately, and that was a brain in the final third, someone to see runs and find them, thread balls through parked buses. When we signed him I believe he was one of the highest assist providers in Europe (have I got that wrong ?). He clearly has the brain, and I'm being greedy I guess, but would like him to be execute the creative side a little better too.

My belief, over simplistic that it may be, is that any team with our geographical, financial and league status will not find it hard to obtain decent strikers, but the guys that provide the (quality) chances are much harder to source.
 

Bulletspur

The Reasonable Advocate
Joined
Oct 17, 2006
Messages
6,609
#68
Against a pub team. You are such a fan boy it is laughable. He had his best game for spurs yesterday and was still one dimensional. I think poch is trying to intergrate him in to the team which is understandable.
And you are so ungenerous and begrudgful its laughable. Most agree that Lamela is not the bees knees (not yet) but to pour scorn on that goal irrespective of the opposition, is very churlish.
 

gp13tot

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2011
Messages
1,505
#69
Was there yesterday. Best away atmosphere i can ever remember, from about 215 onwards it was just an incessant wall of noise. Im still hoarse now.

I sometimes find that my ratings dont correlate with others views when i am marking live, as opposed to tv where u get analysis, replays etc. For example paulinho played better imo than most give him credit for, whereas i wasnt quite as impressed with dembele. Anyway here goes

Lloris 8.5
Walker 7
Fazio 6 - lots of fans unsure of him based on comments from those around me
Verts 7
Rose 7
Mason 6
Paulinho 7
Dembele 7.5
Lamela 6 - i was pointing out his excellent pressing to others around me but he was again infuriating with poor decision making. One bloke was doing his nut and questioning why sell lennon as he was better than lamela. Tbf, both of them often impress more without the ball rather than with. Not good enough for 30m
Eriksen 9. Mom.
Kane 8

Stambouli 6
Chadli 6
Soldado na
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Joined
Oct 19, 2004
Messages
39,765
#70
I most often agree with mainly everything you are saying, but when it comes to Fazio I beg to differ.
I am fully aware of his weakness, which mainly is that he he is slightly error prone. But so are all our defenders.
However, apart from his one blatant mistake a game, he stops the opponent from scoring every time he plays. His arial capacity alone is second to none in the league. He is among our two best CB's, and that's why he plays.

I think Fazio does have redeeming qualities, he does read the game pretty well, is a bit quicker than he looks and does frequently defend situations well.

I just really like what Dier brings. I think he's got learning to do, but I see big potential in the kid and right now, would rather grow that potential.
 

jair1970

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2012
Messages
4,487
#71
The other thing was the line:

"He generally makes very good decisions and this can sometimes make it appear that he isn’t attempting to dominate"

My issue this season has been that he isn't making enough of those or, more pertinently, his execution of those decisions has been wanting at times.

For me, there has been a massive payoff with the goals he is scoring and the effort he is putting in. I'm not disappointed with Eriksen at all, in a general sense, who would be, but I was really bullish about us signing Eriksen for a long time, and the main reason for that was that I saw him as someone who could provide us with something we lacked desperately, and that was a brain in the final third, someone to see runs and find them, thread balls through parked buses. When we signed him I believe he was one of the highest assist providers in Europe (have I got that wrong ?). He clearly has the brain, and I'm being greedy I guess, but would like him to be execute the creative side a little better too.
Again, I can completely understand where you're coming from with this & I was trying to be positive in the piece I wrote.

The point I was trying to make is that he currently isn't the player you or I might hope him to be but that it isn't necessarily a bad thing. I'd love it if he turned into David Silva and became a focal point of the attack but the only time I can recall him 'getting on the ball' and dominating in that way was (I think) when he dropped back into central midfield late on against Hull. I made the point that I think he's a team guy and I think marrying that lack of on-pitch ego with the requirements Pochettino makes has slightly straightjacketed Eriksen. He seems content to follow team orders and make percentage decisions where Lamela (or Townsend) appear to have license to try things and run it more. Maybe that's a tactical wrinkle from Poch?

I guess because he's nominally a number 10 we expect a little more probing and through balls and he is capable, I just think that's not his defined role. Maybe in time he'll grasp the nettle a little more? Maybe this is why he's with us and not at one of the giant clubs already? The ability is there but is the temperament?
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Joined
Oct 19, 2004
Messages
39,765
#72
Again, I can completely understand where you're coming from with this & I was trying to be positive in the piece I wrote.

The point I was trying to make is that he currently isn't the player you or I might hope him to be but that it isn't necessarily a bad thing. I'd love it if he turned into David Silva and became a focal point of the attack but the only time I can recall him 'getting on the ball' and dominating in that way was (I think) when he dropped back into central midfield late on against Hull. I made the point that I think he's a team guy and I think marrying that lack of on-pitch ego with the requirements Pochettino makes has slightly straightjacketed Eriksen. He seems content to follow team orders and make percentage decisions where Lamela (or Townsend) appear to have license to try things and run it more. Maybe that's a tactical wrinkle from Poch?

I guess because he's nominally a number 10 we expect a little more probing and through balls and he is capable, I just think that's not his defined role. Maybe in time he'll grasp the nettle a little more? Maybe this is why he's with us and not at one of the giant clubs already? The ability is there but is the temperament?

I don't think he has that extrovert/dominant "VDV" type persona, but that's not the end of the world, Modric didn't either, he clearly has character, wit and composure because he consistently delivers outstanding quality at high pressure moments.

I don't think he has been straightjacketed by Pochettino, in fact I think I read recently Pochettino talking about the importance of Eriksen having a freer role. Which he does seem to have.

I'm not really sure what the cause is, but for whatever reason, he just doesn't seem to be creating as many clear cut chances for others. I thought it might be because he is playing left and not seeing as much of the ball as he does when used centrally and in the right places to play through balls, but I'm not sure that is the reason.
 

jair1970

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2012
Messages
4,487
#74
I don't think he has that extrovert/dominant "VDV" type persona, but that's not the end of the world, Modric didn't either, he clearly has character, wit and composure because he consistently delivers outstanding quality at high pressure moments.

I don't think he has been straightjacketed by Pochettino, in fact I think I read recently Pochettino talking about the importance of Eriksen having a freer role. Which he does seem to have.

I'm not really sure what the cause is, but for whatever reason, he just doesn't seem to be creating as many clear cut chances for others. I thought it might be because he is playing left and not seeing as much of the ball as he does when used centrally and in the right places to play through balls, but I'm not sure that is the reason.
But in contrast to the freedom he had under Sherwood, where he'd go missing and drift randomly around, his role is more 'straitjacketed' :rolleyes:

I think he's just disciplined with regard his decisions. He rarely just tries one from distance or plays high difficulty 'creative' passes, like Modric, he does a lot of simple things well.

I think under Pochettino, we're more content to keep recycling the ball rather than take chances in the final third. Our shot totals are noticeably down this year whilst possession numbers are largely high; he sees a lot of ball but does a lot of ticking over stuff. Again it seems predominantly team orientated which I think is the backdrop to most of what goes on under Poch.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Joined
Oct 19, 2004
Messages
39,765
#75
But in contrast to the freedom he had under Sherwood, where he'd go missing and drift randomly around, his role is more 'straitjacketed' :rolleyes:

I think he's just disciplined with regard his decisions. He rarely just tries one from distance or plays high difficulty 'creative' passes, like Modric, he does a lot of simple things well.

I think under Pochettino, we're more content to keep recycling the ball rather than take chances in the final third. Our shot totals are noticeably down this year whilst possession numbers are largely high; he sees a lot of ball but does a lot of ticking over stuff. Again it seems predominantly team orientated which I think is the backdrop to most of what goes on under Poch.

I'm going to be totally honest here and say I don't think Eriksen was getting any more "tactical" freedom under Sherwood and accept that in as much as Sherwood didn't really play with too much tactical rigidity at all anyway, that could be wrong, but wrong by accident more than deliberate design.

If I had time and access, I would love to look at some heat maps for where and how Eriksen was receiving and passing the ball under the two managers just to see if there is actually evidence to support your/my theory.

Our possession is up 1.2% on last season. Shots are down 1.9 per game (and Townsend not playing probably covers that !)
 

jair1970

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2012
Messages
4,487
#76
I'm going to be totally honest here and say I don't think Eriksen was getting any more "tactical" freedom under Sherwood and accept that in as much as Sherwood didn't really play with too much tactical rigidity at all anyway, that could be wrong, but wrong by accident more than deliberate design.

If I had time and access, I would love to look at some heat maps for where and how Eriksen was receiving and passing the ball under the two managers just to see if there is actually evidence to support your/my theory.

Our possession is up 1.2% on last season. Shots are down 1.9 per game (and Townsend not playing probably covers that !)
It's slow going at times but Whoscored has heatmaps for all games & detail on passes made (not received) amongst a ton of other detail on their chalkboard feature (new this year but backdates to previous).

A very cursory glance seems to show that he was more obviously stationed on the left last year and he's roaming more now, but that could just be a function of his starting position.
 

stemark44

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2005
Messages
6,598
#77
I'm going to be totally honest here and say I don't think Eriksen was getting any more "tactical" freedom under Sherwood and accept that in as much as Sherwood didn't really play with too much tactical rigidity at all anyway, that could be wrong, but wrong by accident more than deliberate design.

If I had time and access, I would love to look at some heat maps for where and how Eriksen was receiving and passing the ball under the two managers just to see if there is actually evidence to support your/my theory.

Our possession is up 1.2% on last season. Shots are down 1.9 per game (and Townsend not playing probably covers that !)
Thats just sad.
I think you are watching the wrong sport.......you really do belong in American Football.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Joined
Oct 19, 2004
Messages
39,765
#78
It's slow going at times but Whoscored has heatmaps for all games & detail on passes made (not received) amongst a ton of other detail on their chalkboard feature (new this year but backdates to previous).

A very cursory glance seems to show that he was more obviously stationed on the left last year and he's roaming more now, but that could just be a function of his starting position.
That tally's with my perception. If I get time I'll have a look later. Maybe write something up in the Tactical Autopsy thread.
 
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