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Match Ratings Ratings vs West Bromwich Albion

MOTM

  • Lloris

    Votes: 5 4.0%
  • Trippier

    Votes: 5 4.0%
  • Sanchez

    Votes: 1 0.8%
  • Toby

    Votes: 22 17.7%
  • Verts

    Votes: 16 12.9%
  • Rose

    Votes: 8 6.5%
  • Wanyama

    Votes: 4 3.2%
  • Eriksen

    Votes: 2 1.6%
  • Lamela

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Dele

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Kane

    Votes: 2 1.6%
  • Son

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Moura

    Votes: 14 11.3%
  • Loriente

    Votes: 1 0.8%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 31 25.0%
  • None Deserved

    Votes: 13 10.5%

  • Total voters
    124

Lighty64

I believe
Aug 24, 2010
10,400
12,476
Kane rushing back has derailed our final run in. The dude looks like he’s playing with concrete boots. We looked so much better that spell with Son up front, we’re effectively 10 men every game with a crocked Kane persevering in his pointless chase for golden boot.

Worst game I’ve seen Lamela have for us. Poch seems allergic to winning at times. Five at the back against relegation fodder that need to win? Played directly into Darren Moore’s bacon-grease covered hands.

Sell the team and pivot THFC into an American football franchise imo.

agree with you about Kane, if Salah can pick up a couple of goals tomorrow hopefully Poch will rest him v Newcastle

we actually lost the match when we where 4-4-2
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
Dis eese fuubal

For once, I'm with Che Poch. This was just football fuckin wid ya (and me).

I liked the line up, the 3CB system up against their kind of 422, the way WBA play a deep central block; getting our FB's pushed up high and wide seemed like a good idea. Apart from anything else, it's absolutely the best way to get the best out of Trippier's offensive strengths and minimise his (over exaggerated) defensive deficiencies, and he fulfilled the remit perfectly, spent all game right on touch line as an outlet, allowing us to move the ball laterally, he put balls in and set up the only real quality clear cut chance of this game.

My one tactical query would be, why not have Alderweireld central, sweeping and marking Rondon, and have Sanchez's pace out right covering his high FB?

12 months ago the thought of Eriksen is a CM2 would be a worry, but against this type of opponent, this can be managed, but only by having the dynamic Wanyama in there next to him, Wanyama pretty much played CM on his own for big chunks of this game.

Again, in forward areas, Poch's selections all made sense to me. Against the bus park, Alli and Lamela are far more likely to conjure something clever, than Son's more direct approach - too much traffic to run through and he'd bang out of form anyway.

This game was much better tactically than our previous 3/4 games. We were thoroughly dominant, tried to do all the right things, kept shuffling the ball aorund, trying to pass forwards when possible, but credit to WBA, they had just about all the angles covered, no space in behind, and defending balls into the box very well. This was pretty much as good a bus park as we've encountered all season. And unlike other recent games we were so much better without the ball today, we kept things very tight, allowing them virtually nothing, not even the odd counter attack, and this is a difficult thing to do when dominating the ball and territory, but as soon as we lost it, we hunted it down almost immediately and kept the pressure on them relentlessly.

I even liked Poch's subs today, thought they were bang on, right players off, right players on. I would have liked him to make them both around the hour mark, or maybe have Moura before Son, but that's minor quibble.

There was nothing wrong with our mentality today, and tactically I think this was as good as Poch has been for a month. He made tactical changes that made good sense, a more dynamic and creative midfield, putting our three cleverest players into the centre of the game, getting the FB's wide.

I think this game just highlights that it's more brains and craft we need, not speedy legs. If those brains and craft come attached to speedy legs, fine. But not on their own.

We've all seen this movie before. If you don't actually see the bad guy die, you know he's going to jump out in the final act and stab you up the arse.

If that was an own goal, then they've managed to beat us having 26% possession and no shots on target. The gods of football are blowing wind into WBA's sails right now.

Individual

Lloris - Great save from Kane, then a horrible flap that missed. But fuck all to do apart from that.

Sanchez - One blooper asside I thought he was good again. Says a lot that he was given the central role, marking Rondon and by and large he didn't get a sniff.

Alderweireld - Good game.

Vertonghen - Good game.

Trippier - Very good game, very involved, set up the best chance of the game with a great through ball.

Rose - Lots of energy and intention, as ever though, lacked much quality in forward areas.

Wanyama - Energy, tenacity and drive, pretty much held our CM together on his own today.

Eriksen - Jabbed and moved, prodded and probed, just couldn't find the killer punch.

Alli - Also tried hard, but was ultimately a bit disappointing. frittered it away too cheaply at times, when it needed a bit more care and attention.

Lamela - Same as Alli.

Kane - I think he showed signs of getting back to proper Kane today. This was still a disappointing game for him, his touch and game play still look heavy, but he was more involved and moving a bit better.
 
Last edited:

JimmyG2

SC Supporter
Dec 7, 2006
15,014
20,779
For 'undecided' read
Can't be arsed to pick any of them on today's performance.
You'd think that by now we would be experts
at hot wiring parked vehicles.
 

punky

Gone
Sep 23, 2008
7,485
5,403
Guess you missed the match against Brighton where was hauled off in the second half for an ineffectual performance in a limp 1-1 draw?
You're right I forgot he started that game but it's hardly like he held the team back. Everyone was turgid. As I remember back to the game I thought he was subbed for to give Lamela more time, rather than Moura not performing. The MOTM thread had him around 3rd/4th best behind the two defenders.

He's hardly any real chance to shine on the pitch.
 

elDiablo

SC Supporter
Feb 2, 2005
4,579
2,950
Getting champs league is key, but I'm also concerned that Kane will be picked in Russia despite being out of form and the media tearing into him when he doesn't deliver like the euros.

People say it's the injury, i think his confidence levels have dropped massively.
 

whitesocks

The past means nothing. This is a message for life
Jan 16, 2014
4,652
5,738
Wanyama was an absolute monster for us last year. This season he has been injured and clearly is still not 100%.
He was indeed. He'd collect a yellow card nearly every game and leave someone pole-axed on the ground just because he could.
But I feel his ongoing knee injury means he just can't play the same way.
He is one of the players we need to have a think about this summer, I suggest.
And this defeat enables discussions like this.
 

mpickard2087

Patient Zero
Jun 13, 2008
21,886
32,513
I'm hardly surprised.

Only a few days ago, post Watford, even in victory, I said this:

I don't think we'll be so lucky in the remaining fixtures if we continue to serve up such half-hearted lethargic displays.

And whilst that wasn't as messy and lacking in control as the other night (not that we needed to battle for control, we had it by default), this was again such a low-tempo, weak, lethargic, just going through the motions waiting for something to happen performance that can easily get punished. And it did.

This is what I had to say after the Man Utd game:

Everything good we have done since he has took charge has been built around work rate, energy and intensity. You need 11 players who can put that shift in, and cant afford passengers. Unfortunately we have a few at the moment, players, including some critical components, who just look fucked and cant put that shift in, and you cant get away with that at the top level.

For the rest of the season we need 11 players out on that pitch who can first and foremost put in a shift and play with energy and intensity

Now to be fair to Poch, he did try to address some of these issues. He dropped Son, Dier, Dembele, and Davies. All of whom have looked varying degrees of fucked in the last few weeks. So far, so good. But other issues persist... Eriksen, a critical component, in the last few games looks jaded now, Sanchez has been looking weary in the last couple of weeks - did some daft things and lost his man for the goal today. And then we have Kane, who continues to look incapable of moving - another game today where he made zero runs into channels or to make an option for his man (actually I get that wrong, the chance happened and there was one through ball first half he might have been 50/50 with the keeper for, that he gave up on immediately...) - and you cant do anything with no focal point or option up top occupying and working defenders. Critical areas of the team just offering nothing makes the performance, and winning a game, a real struggle.

In the end this was largely much like the last half a dozen games. It's been shit, followed by shit, followed by even more shit. Yet more low-tempo, lacking in energy, lacking in urgency, and ultimately lacking in much threat. My HT comments consisted of:

There have been literally 100's of passes that could have been made at one or two touch, rather than four, five, or more. Too many players coming and wanting it to feet. Passes dribbled at snails pace to player, said passes also played behind a player instead of in front of him. As said, lack of movement. Not enough players getting into the box. Trippier and Rose not attacking that space, being decisive, and making use of switches of play, instead letting WBA defence shuffle across.

It got better initially in the second half, the ball pushed around a little quicker and crisper and finding players between the lines, but then reverted to type and got slower and sloppier and the game more bitty as it drew towards its close.

The annoying thing was that WBA, though undoubtedly organised and up for the fight they were, were one of the shittest footballing teams I have ever seen. From minute one the ball was just hoofed anywhere in desperation. The only time they tried to threaten, and we frequently aided their efforts during several near misses, was at set pieces, and I wasn't shocked in the end that they eventually put one in the net.

Yet more signs that we are limping towards the finish line, whether we hold on to what we have who knows..... Two games left to put it right, and I want to see some intent and energy in them. We need to come out, press hard, play at tempo, bully teams and blow them away - we did it well for a couple of years, not so well this season. Well we badly need to dig one out at this stage and get the job done.

Lloris - Couple of smart bits of work, got away with flapping at a corner though.

Alderweireld - Pretty solid.

Sanchez - Must have been at least a couple of times where he took some stupid option instead of calmly playing the ball back to the keeper. Also lost his man for the goal.

Vertonghen - Solid enough.

Trippier - One good pass for Kane's chance. Saw plenty of ball sat high up the pitch, did very little with it and missed some great chance to use space.

Rose - Pretty much the same as Trippier. If he stays needs to get his running legs back, lacking a bit of directness.

Wanyama - Ok.

Eriksen - Looked a bit weary.

Lamela - Fairly standard Lamela performance, but on the underwhelming side of the scale.

Alli - Came too deep, too often, and struggled to impact in the right areas.

Kane - Looked for a couple of through balls, small steps of progress.......

Subs:

Son - Pfft.
Moura - Ok. Would probably have put him on for Trippier or something and so forced him into wide areas.
Llorente - Well he got his head on one and forced a save, so equalled Kane in about 20 times less minutes on the pitch.
 

coys200

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2017
8,436
17,403
Lloris had to come for the corner. Balls in the air a long time and he’s 4 yards out when he heads it.
 

Cravenspurs

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2011
2,864
3,680
We won the ball back quickly which I liked.

We made them sit in their own half which I liked.

But when playing that style you need players that can create on their own when against a packed side.

Should have been Son from the top of the Match for Lamela for me and Moura should have been on for Wanyama at the 50 minute mark. Drop Alli and Eriksen deep and let Son, Moura, and Kane run at them for the last 40 mins.

Was refreshing to see the midfield dominated by Wanyama, but the play was just too slow due to a lack of on ball ability and a team of FBs that can’t bring the width we need at all times. Rose had spots of his old self, but the with all of Tripps crosses including his deft throughball he was not a threat to their back line all game.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
I'm hardly surprised.

Only a few days ago, post Watford, even in victory, I said this:



And whilst that wasn't as messy and lacking in control as the other night (not that we needed to battle for control, we had it by default), this was again such a low-tempo, weak, lethargic, just going through the motions waiting for something to happen performance that can easily get punished. And it did.

This is what I had to say after the Man Utd game:





Now to be fair to Poch, he did try to address some of these issues. He dropped Son, Dier, Dembele, and Davies. All of whom have looked varying degrees of fucked in the last few weeks. So far, so good. But other issues persist... Eriksen, a critical component, in the last few games looks jaded now, Sanchez has been looking weary in the last couple of weeks - did some daft things and lost his man for the goal today. And then we have Kane, who continues to look incapable of moving - another game today where he made zero runs into channels or to make an option for his man (actually I get that wrong, the chance happened and there was one through ball first half he might have been 50/50 with the keeper for, that he gave up on immediately...) - and you cant do anything with no focal point or option up top occupying and working defenders. Critical areas of the team just offering nothing makes the performance, and winning a game, a real struggle.

In the end this was largely much like the last half a dozen games. It's been shit, followed by shit, followed by even more shit. Yet more low-tempo, lacking in energy, lacking in urgency, and ultimately lacking in much threat. My HT comments consisted of:



It got better initially in the second half, the ball pushed around a little quicker and crisper and finding players between the lines, but then reverted to type and got slower and sloppier and the game more bitty as it drew towards its close.

The annoying thing was that WBA, though undoubtedly organised and up for the fight they were, were one of the shittest footballing teams I have ever seen. From minute one the ball was just hoofed anywhere in desperation. The only time they tried to threaten, and we frequently aided their efforts during several near misses, was at set pieces, and I wasn't shocked in the end that they eventually put one in the net.

Yet more signs that we are limping towards the finish line, whether we hold on to what we have who knows..... Two games left to put it right, and I want to see some intent and energy in them. We need to come out, press hard, play at tempo, bully teams and blow them away - we did it well for a couple of years, not so well this season. Well we badly need to dig one out at this stage and get the job done.

Lloris - Couple of smart bits of work, got away with flapping at a corner though.

Alderweireld - Pretty solid.

Sanchez - Must have been at least a couple of times where he took some stupid option instead of calmly playing the ball back to the keeper. Also lost his man for the goal.

Vertonghen - Solid enough.

Trippier - One good pass for Kane's chance. Saw plenty of ball sat high up the pitch, did very little with it and missed some great chance to use space.

Rose - Pretty much the same as Trippier. If he stays needs to get his running legs back, lacking a bit of directness.

Wanyama - Ok.

Eriksen - Looked a bit weary.

Lamela - Fairly standard Lamela performance, but on the underwhelming side of the scale.

Alli - Came too deep, too often, and struggled to impact in the right areas.

Kane - Looked for a couple of through balls, small steps of progress.......

Subs:

Son - Pfft.
Moura - Ok. Would probably have put him on for Trippier or something and so forced him into wide areas.
Llorente - Well he got his head on one and forced a save, so equalled Kane in about 20 times less minutes on the pitch.


I genuinely don't think we lacked effort, energy or urgency today, and I thought we defended from top to back much better today too, IMO we just lacked a bit of quality, And I disagree that they were shit. In offensive or creative or constructive terms they were shit, but that wasn't their remit, they were just relying on stopping us and nicking something from a set piece or break. And they did the defending part of that as well as anyone has this season.
 

M.I.B.

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2004
1,047
2,260
At first I thought this must be a joke because obviously no one would be as stupid to think that a relatively harmless way for professional footballers to relax actually effects their performance.

But then you spelt one of the easiest names in the league wrong so all bets are off on your stupidity level...

And fuck you too, you supercilious twat. And by the way, it's affects, not effects.
 

mpickard2087

Patient Zero
Jun 13, 2008
21,886
32,513
I genuinely don't think we lacked effort, energy or urgency today, and I thought we defended from top to back much better today too, IMO we just lacked a bit of quality, And I disagree that they were shit. In offensive or creative or constructive terms they were shit, but that wasn't their remit, they were just relying on stopping us and nicking something from a set piece or break. And they did the defending part of that as well as anyone has this season.

When I am seeing players across the park taking 5 (or more) touches instead of playing at one or two touch, some slow slow slowwwwwwwwww dribbly passes played and often hit behind the player, people like Alli coming and getting the ball off the centre backs because it's the piss easy option to get the ball, Trippier unable to take on his man and drive towards the box/byline, Rose very reluctantly doing it, and Kane breaking into two sprints all game, I do not count that as urgency BC, or quality for that matter......

They were shit as in I am struggling to recall a PL football team repeatedly just wildly hack at the ball and send it in any direction. However disciplined they are, and I have praised Darren Moore a couple of times for somehow managing to forge some spirit, fight, and organisation from what was a total lost cause, that is still embarrassing to lose to a team that lacked any talent.

I cant say we defended well considering the only time they tried to actually attack was at set pieces, and we seemed to gift them chances at most of them (Alderweireld clearing from under his own crossbar, Hegazi heading wide from a great chance, Lloris flapping at a corner, the one they eventually scored where we allowed a free header yet again)... And that's another point, Poch has been here 4 years, he's got a team majority of whom are 6ft plus, how are we still so fragile at defending set pieces?
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
When I am seeing players across the park taking 5 (or more) touches instead of playing at one or two touch, some slow slow slowwwwwwwwww dribbly passes played and often hit behind the player, people like Alli coming and getting the ball off the centre backs because it's the piss easy option to get the ball, Trippier unable to take on his man and drive towards the box/byline, Rose very reluctantly doing it, and Kane breaking into two sprints all game, I do not count that as urgency BC, or quality for that matter......

They were shit as in I am struggling to recall a PL football team repeatedly just wildly hack at the ball and send it in any direction. However disciplined they are, and I have praised Darren Moore a couple of times for somehow managing to forge some spirit, fight, and organisation from what was a total lost cause, that is still embarrassing to lose to a team that lacked any talent.

I cant say we defended well considering the only time they tried to actually attack was at set pieces, and we seemed to gift them chances at most of them (Alderweireld clearing from under his own crossbar, Hegazi heading wide from a great chance, Lloris flapping at a corner, the one they eventually scored where we allowed a free header yet again)... And that's another point, Poch has been here 4 years, he's got a team majority of whom are 6ft plus, how are we still so fragile at defending set pieces?

When a team sits deep like that I think inevitably AM’s will drop deeper at times, trying to pull their markers about, trying to find space, I don’t really have a problem with that.

And it’s rare when a team sits deep that fb’s (or anyone) gets to run in behind, even very quick ones, there’s just no room to open stretch their legs like that. The quality of what Trippier puts into the box is vastly better than what Rose ever has. Even from deeper areas.

I’m not saying we were perfect, but to a degree part of that is where we are at, quality wise - just below that top level, and I said in the match thread, even by their own standards Kane, Alli, Lamela were all a bit underwhelming, but this is often what happens when teams get the job of bus parking right.

In the last few weeks we’ve watched ManU come unstuck at home to West Brom, and away to Brighton, Liverpool at home to Stoke etc.

And again, we probably could do better at set pieces but I think only the one they scored from they actually had a clear header at, and that’s in the 93rd minute. And even then we kept that out.

What I saw today was not some of the stupid stuff I’ve been watching since City, where Poch has been getting his selections, tactics and application horribly wrong and it’s cost us.

There was no sloppy phases where the game got out of our control, no silly end to end stuff, no letting them have time on the ball.

I can be as fucking as hard to please as the next man, but I don’t think selections, tactics or application let us down today. A bit of top quality, a very efficient opponent, and a tiny bit of luck - even if it was their good, rather than our bad.
 

Lighty64

I believe
Aug 24, 2010
10,400
12,476
going to need to book a doctors appointment on Monday, for the 1st time I actually agree with BC

am i ill? or has BC been bitten by an unusual inset:whistle:
 

Flashspur

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2012
6,882
9,068
Poch's continued use of a crocked Kane is scandalous when Llorente is an able replacement the way Kane is playing on one leg. There aint no golden boot this year champ. Give it up and head to the beach. We need a goalscorer or we will be playing ropey league again.
 

dannythomas

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2004
3,757
2,813
When a team sits deep like that I think inevitably AM’s will drop deeper at times, trying to pull their markers about, trying to find space, I don’t really have a problem with that.

And it’s rare when a team sits deep that fb’s (or anyone) gets to run in behind, even very quick ones, there’s just no room to open stretch their legs like that. The quality of what Trippier puts into the box is vastly better than what Rose ever has. Even from deeper areas.

I’m not saying we were perfect, but to a degree part of that is where we are at, quality wise - just below that top level, and I said in the match thread, even by their own standards Kane, Alli, Lamela were all a bit underwhelming, but this is often what happens when teams get the job of bus parking right.

In the last few weeks we’ve watched ManU come unstuck at home to West Brom, and away to Brighton, Liverpool at home to Stoke etc.

And again, we probably could do better at set pieces but I think only the one they scored from they actually had a clear header at, and that’s in the 93rd minute. And even then we kept that out.

What I saw today was not some of the stupid stuff I’ve been watching since City, where Poch has been getting his selections, tactics and application horribly wrong and it’s cost us.

There was no sloppy phases where the game got out of our control, no silly end to end stuff, no letting them have time on the ball.

I can be as fucking as hard to please as the next man, but I don’t think selections, tactics or application let us down today. A bit of top quality, a very efficient opponent, and a tiny bit of luck - even if it was their good, rather than our bad.

In the team v West Brom thread a few hours before the match I actually advocated the same formation and 10 of the players who were selected ( I went with Son over Lamela ) . To an extent I agree with you and Poch in his post match press conference that it wasn't the system that cost us , it was the final ball and lack of ruthlessness up front that did.

I do think that you are being generous to Wanyama who I just don't think is at the level he was last year and if he is going to be our lone holding midfielder then he has to be able to cope with that responsibility and I don't think he did that well enough.

So do you think we should stay with the same formation in our upcoming crunch matches ?
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
In the team v West Brom thread a few hours before the match I actually advocated the same formation and 10 of the players who were selected ( I went with Son over Lamela ) . To an extent I agree with you and Poch in his post match press conference that it wasn't the system that cost us , it was the final ball and lack of ruthlessness up front that did.

I do think that you are being generous to Wanyama who I just don't think is at the level he was last year and if he is going to be our lone holding midfielder then he has to be able to cope with that responsibility and I don't think he did that well enough.

So do you think we should stay with the same formation in our upcoming crunch matches ?


Can you imagine Dier or Dembele performing the role Wanyama did today ? Dembele would be dead by about the 50 th minute and Dier would have made it a back 4 with Eriksen the lone CM.

Wanyama did a great job today for the most part, got through shit loads of ground, covering the FB's as well holding the centre of the pitch on his own for the most part, as Eriksen pushed up quite a lot.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
Poch's continued use of a crocked Kane is scandalous when Llorente is an able replacement the way Kane is playing on one leg. There aint no golden boot this year champ. Give it up and head to the beach. We need a goalscorer or we will be playing ropey league again.


Ive been critical of Kane, and Poch for playing him too soon, think he was rushed back too soon, when we were actually playing well without him, but I'd prefer Son or even Alli up top instead of Llorente who's just too immobile for our system.

But I think it was fair to select him today, and he did OK, worked harder, even if he still looks a bit clunky and short of mojo.
 

ohtottenham!

Well-Known Member
Aug 15, 2013
7,497
13,029
Can you imagine Dier or Dembele performing the role Wanyama did today ? Dembele would be dead by about the 50 th minute and Dier would have made it a back 4 with Eriksen the lone CM.

Wanyama did a great job today for the most part, got through shit loads of ground, covering the FB's as well holding the centre of the pitch on his own for the most part, as Eriksen pushed up quite a lot.
Think you're really overstating the role Wanyama played today. Just going with Lamela in the line up gives us more defensive protection for the CMs, and we also went with a back 3/5. Dembele at least can get past his man when a defence is set up like West Brom were. If he runs out of gas, then substitute him. That's the way I saw it.

Think we were too cautious with our approach and line up. We needed energy and invention in our attacking play more than anything as we knew they were going to park the bus. It wasn't the goal we gave up from a set play that was the issue; that's a West Brom speciality after all. It was the fact we couldn't fashion much creatively to break down the bus.

Really didn't see the need for Lamela in this game, given the fact we had a back 3. Son, despite being out of form, can create havoc, and get his shots off from distance that can unsettle a defence. Moura showed in his brief cameo what he can do...
 
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