Realistic Ambitions Whilst at WHL

Hoowl

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Until the development of the Emirates and the influx of sugar daddies, we've always had the potential to compete with the the top teams in the league. We've had a reasonably even financial footing and failed to challenge through bad choices in players and managers. There has been a tangible dream that we're only a couple of players away and next year will be our year. Even though we've been an average mid-table side for the best part of the last two decades, we've had a realistic hope and belief that our sleeping giant would rise again.

In recent years, we've been gradually losing this even footing and competing with an increasing handicap. We've now got half the wage budget of the sides we're trying to overtake and yet we have the same ambitions on the pitch and in the transfer market. This seems highly unreasonable. It's just not realistic to believe we will truely be able to rival these side for anything other than the very short term.

-----------------------TOT -----ARS -----CHE ------MUN-----LIV ---- MC
08/09 wages (m) -67 -----111 ----- 149 ----- 132 ----- 90 ---- 149

http://swissramble.blogspot.com/search/label/Tottenham Hotspur

On the positive side, these developments have actually co-incided with us making some good choices of players and manager so in the short term things look rosy. However, this short term fluctuation merely masks how difficult it will be for us in the comming years. The numbers don't lie. Whether viewed as an excuse, or used as spin for the new stadium, Levy and Harry are fully within their rights to say it's very hard to compete at the top with our existing revenue and we'll have to get used to it if we don't get an extra guranteed income. The only thing that provides the scale of extra income we're talking about is a new stadium. This is why Levy has continually repeated that we need a bigger stadium. This is why he believes the objective of getting a new stadium is more important than that stadium being in Tottenham. He is not satisfied by watching other teams gradually move away from us. He does not want to see us lose the oppertunities that have arisen from our current success, which he has worked hard to help us achieve.

We are obviously not responsible for the finances of Tottenham Hotspur so we can quite happily demand anything we want but it's not reasonable to expect us to sign players on 100k+ a week in our current home. It's also not reasonable for us to spend the kind massive transfer fees that a lot of fans think we would (see the results of the summer polls). We have to accept we're operating in a completely different financial range and if this continues we will no longer be able to challenge clubs like Arsenal. It will no longer be a realistic aim to compete at the top.

That is the key difference between what we have been through before and what will happen if we stay at The Lane in it's current form. The hope and belief that we will rise again will become more of a dream and less of a reality. Whether the NDP is viable is another huge debate, but the bottom line is that we must have a new stadium or reasses our expectations that have risen because of our short term improvements.
 

Misfit

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#2
Yes - long term an increased capacity (especially the executive boxes etc) is vital. For the very unsexy reason of increasing our turnover and therefore wages. We can always sign the odd player for a reasonable price but when comes to contract time...

Were we in Italy, where good players seem to go for a Mars bard and two tickets to the latest Clooney movie, this isn't an issue. When you have to to pay a massive wedge in a transfer fee and then top wages, we can't compete (at least not one where we realistically expect to sign and employ players of a calibre to get top 4/challenge for honours regularly) and it will only get worse.

Goddamit.
 

kishman

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Good post Hoowl. It's a shame that Abramovich and the Abu-Dhabi group have ruined the EPL by splashing their cash, I also blame UEFA for not implementing the Financial Fair plays rules as soon as Chelsea's rise, it shouldn't have taken this long. Because of that, we can't afford the big wages for players and that's apparent now. Just the other day Harry said we can't afford Forlan's wages so a move for him is out of the question and also if rumours are true, we had a bid accepted for Dzeko but we couldn't afford the wages. Like you said there is a need for a bigger stadium in order to compete with the big teams. If the bigger stadium does not happen the best we can expect is the top 6 finishes and the occasional top 4 finish.

You said "This is why he believes the objective of getting a new stadium is more important than that stadium being in Tottenham. "

Which in a way is true. But everybody supports Spurs for a reason. The location of the club is means more the some fans than it does to others. That's why I'm Anti-Stratford. I want Spurs to be the best team in the league, but if we can't build a new stadium within the surrounding area I can accept the consequences of not having this bigger stadium.
 

EastLondonYid

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Good post Hoowl. It's a shame that Abramovich and the Abu-Dhabi group have ruined the EPL by splashing their cash, I also blame UEFA for not implementing the Financial Fair plays rules as soon as Chelsea's rise, it shouldn't have taken this long. Because of that, we can't afford the big wages for players and that's apparent now. Just the other day Harry said we can't afford Forlan's wages so a move for him is out of the question and also if rumours are true, we had a bid accepted for Dzeko but we couldn't afford the wages. Like you said there is a need for a bigger stadium in order to compete with the big teams. If the bigger stadium does not happen the best we can expect is the top 6 finishes and the occasional top 4 finish.

You said "This is why he believes the objective of getting a new stadium is more important than that stadium being in Tottenham. "

Which in a way is true. But everybody supports Spurs for a reason. The location of the club is means more the some fans than it does to others. That's why I'm Anti-Stratford. I want Spurs to be the best team in the league, but if we can't build a new stadium within the surrounding area I can accept the consequences of not having this bigger stadium.

^ this.....
 
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It is going to be mighty difficult to compete with Arsenal, Chelsea, Utd and City as it now stands. We also have to be conscious of a resurgent Liverpool in the coming year or two.
City are totally reliant on the Arabs money, but once they establish themselves in the top 4 and CL, the y will generate much more cash than Spurs and then start to distance themselves from Spurs.
The huge challenge we have is to get top 4 again this year, as this will allow us to keep Modric, Bale and VDV. Without CL football the challenge to keep hold of the aforementioned trio will prove much more difficult
 

Hoowl

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You said "This is why he believes the objective of getting a new stadium is more important than that stadium being in Tottenham. "

Which in a way is true. But everybody supports Spurs for a reason. The location of the club is means more the some fans than it does to others. That's why I'm Anti-Stratford. I want Spurs to be the best team in the league, but if we can't build a new stadium within the surrounding area I can accept the consequences of not having this bigger stadium.
My main point is to reitterate exactly why we need a bigger stadium. I think it's particularly relavent with the current demand of players in the transfer window. I tried to keep Stratford out of the initial post as much as possible becuse I find it generally comes down to a arguement over whether you believe Levys statements about financial viability or not i.e:

1) Do you believe it is more important to remain competitive or stay in Tottenham?
2) Do you accept we need a new stadium to remain competive?
3) If you answered yes to (1) and (2), and it is proven that it's not financially viable to stay in Tottenham, then you have to accept the stadium will have to be built elsewhere.
 

kaz Hirai

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youth well have to be our future if we dont move anytime soon, finding more players like bale, dawson, lennon, Bae etc. and trying to get these young players playing a certain style and as a team like barca do and unfortunately arsenal
 

Hoowl

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youth well have to be our future if we dont move anytime soon, finding more players like bale, dawson, lennon, Bae etc. and trying to get these young players playing a certain style and as a team like barca do and unfortunately arsenal
Every team in the world is already trying to do this. The teams with the better finances will again be able to offer these players more money and thus have their pick of the best.
 

kishman

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My main point is to reitterate exactly why we need a bigger stadium. I think it's particularly relavent with the current demand of players in the transfer window. I tried to keep Stratford out of the initial post as much as possible becuse I find it generally comes down to a arguement over whether you believe Levys statements about financial viability or not i.e:

1) Do you believe it is more important to remain competitive or stay in Tottenham?
2) Do you accept we need a new stadium to remain competive?
3) If you answered yes to (1) and (2), and it is proven that it's not financially viable to stay in Tottenham, then you have to accept the stadium will have to be built elsewhere.
Then maybe I should've said Anti-Moving out of Tottenham. I apologise for involving Stratford. You should maybe change 'or' to 'than' in (1).
 

sloth

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I want Spurs to be the best team in the league, but if we can't build a new stadium within the surrounding area I can accept the consequences of not having this bigger stadium.
Can you accept being a Championship side?

Can you accept West Ham being bought by a billionaire and putting us into their shade?

Can you accept West Ham's catchment area spreading to over take ours, while ours shrivels because of poor performance and high ticket prices?

Can you accept becoming a Preston North End?

All to stay at WHL?

Of course you know what will happen if we do shrink (which we almost certainly will), don't you?

Irony of irony's the real estate will become worth more than the club. We'll sell up to save the club and we'll move out to Edmonton or wherever to a purpose built 15k seater more commensurate with our stature as a nice local club in North London.

But I'm guessing you'd be happy with that?
 

EastLondonYid

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youth well have to be our future if we dont move anytime soon, finding more players like bale, dawson, lennon, Bae etc. and trying to get these young players playing a certain style and as a team like barca do and unfortunately arsenal

That logic won't sell you the club ........... now a new stadium..:think:
 

kaz Hirai

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i don't no arsenal did pretty well while they were still at highbury, its not like they had the cash of united, liverpool or chelsea at the time either
 

kaz Hirai

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Every team in the world is already trying to do this. The teams with the better finances will again be able to offer these players more money and thus have their pick of the best.
well thats not true is it? otherwise gareth bale would be playing for Manchester united right now

for promising teenagers its not always about money or the size of the stadium, its which club am i really going to get the chance to shine at, to develop at
 

faulks

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The venue has no baring over what we can win, only how we feel when we do.

Stay in N17!!!
Well actually it does to an exent, bigger the stadium, the more revenue, which means bigger pull on players. We cannot pull in world class players in if we cannot pay their wages.

Other teams with more money will have the advantage, hence what we are seeing this season with Man City.

I'd also like to add the 4 teams above us in the league are capable of paying over a 100k a week on wages, we cant.
 

Hoowl

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well thats not true is it? otherwise gareth bale would be playing for Manchester united right now

for promising teenagers its not always about money or the size of the stadium, its which club am i really going to get the chance to shine at, to develop at
United didn't follow up their interest in Bale.
 
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Well actually it does to an exent, bigger the stadium, the more revenue, which means bigger pull on players. We cannot pull in world class players in if we cannot pay their wages.

Other teams with more money will have the advantage, hence what we are seeing this season with Man City.

I'd also like to add the 4 teams above us in the league are capable of paying over a 100k a week on wages, we cant.
We are consistantly in the top 20 revenue in the world.

Thecurrent cap hasnt stopped us signing the likes of VDV and Modric.

We are not a million miles away with what weve got.

Difference is I would rather celebrate a league / cup win in the bricklayers than a TGIs in East London.
 

kishman

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#20
Can you accept being a Championship side?

Can you accept West Ham being bought by a billionaire and putting us into their shade?

Can you accept West Ham's catchment area spreading to over take ours, while ours shrivels because of poor performance and high ticket prices?

Can you accept becoming a Preston North End?

All to stay at WHL or nearby?

Of course you know what will happen if we do shrink (which we almost certainly will), don't you?

Irony of irony's the real estate will become worth more than the club. We'll sell up to save the club and we'll move out to Edmonton or wherever to a purpose built 15k seater more commensurate with our stature as a nice local club in North London.

But I'm guessing you'd be happy with that?
I made a slight adjustment to that. All of that could happen but it is unlikely to happen. I don't believe all of that will happen but if it does then its meant to be. Of course I won't be happy but I'll just have to accept it.