Saints reluctant to do business with Spurs, patience snaps over Wanyama

[worcestersauce]

Good! They ain't got no players I want
Genuinely I couldn't give a monkey's about any of their players or the fact that they are upset, they moan if we bid and apparently they now moan if we don't because they say someone's not for sale.
Wanyama thinks about leaving, Southampton let him know they would consider it as his contract is running down, his agent puts out feelers, Spurs show interest, agent approaches Southampton, Southampton say not to Spurs because they signed Toby, agent informs Spurs, Spurs therefore don't bother top make an offer and so Southampton moan about it!! Inferiority complex or what.

 

[Stoof]

Yes we can. If we can't afford the manager's first choice players then we just need to be honest with him instead of trying to unsettle the players via protracted transfer wranglings when valuations are so far apart. Maybe we just need to improve our scouting network and focus on finding the next Benteke, Coutinho, Ayew (early days i know) or even VDV . There are definitely deals to be done out there within budget.

Well by all means we have done. But implementing a scouting network isn't a 48 hour job. In my honest opinion, you don't get results from something like that instantly, that's a mid-to-long term gain.

Not winning is persevering with difficult deals where we are not willing to pay what is being asked for and then leaving ourselves woefully short of numbers and quality in probably the most crucial position in the team.

By all accounts the people on the board, including Levy himself, are no stranger to a complicated high value deal. They have done plenty of them. If the manager said "I want this forward [Berahino]. If you can't get him, I don't want anyone else", what do you do? Do you get a second rate player in any way? Do you get Frazier Campbell in? Or Andy Booth? To me, the biggest sign of us changing tack is that we haven't frittered away money on any old player.

It's not a popular view, but I don't think we're in as bad shape as people have dramatically made out.

 

[Smokinhotspur]

Well by all means we have done. But implementing a scouting network isn't a 48 hour job. In my honest opinion, you don't get results from something like that instantly, that's a mid-to-long term gain.



By all accounts the people on the board, including Levy himself, are no stranger to a complicated high value deal. They have done plenty of them. If the manager said "I want this forward [Berahino]. If you can't get him, I don't want anyone else", what do you do? Do you get a second rate player in any way? Do you get Frazier Campbell in? Or Andy Booth? To me, the biggest sign of us changing tack is that we haven't frittered away money on any old player.

It's not a popular view, but I don't think we're in as bad shape as people have dramatically made out.

I think it is a very naive view for a manager to say I want this one player and no one else will do. What if Chelsea, Man City or another big fish also become interested in the player then what? For a club our size we need back up options as there are several reasons a deal might not go through. The back up does not have to be a long term signing that costs the club for years either. It could just be a loan that can slot in for league cup games against minnows, Europa league games in far flung locations or to come on for the last 20 mins in a game that we are winning and controlling to give Kane a breather.

Look at West ham, they wanted Ade saw that deal was looking problematic and switched over to Jelavic. Even Chelsea with all their financial might had to give up on Stones and sign a couple of young defenders because leaving yourself short especially in specialist positions is just not an option.

If Kane were to get injured now we could be jeopardising the long term futures of Son and Njie by heaping the goal scoring responsibility onto the shoulders of young players who have not been prolific in their fledgling careers so far, have no experience of possibly the most demanding league in Europe and could still be learning the language and adjusting to new teammates/culture etc. If their confidence and belief goes early it could be difficult to build them up again. We are also jeopardising Kane's future and putting him at risk of burnout particularly after a long breakthrough season, two post season tours and a U21 Championship. These risks cannot be underestimated and why it was imperative we got another specialist striker in even if only until Jan when we could look at a longer term solution.

 

[thebenjamin]

Well by all means we have done. But implementing a scouting network isn't a 48 hour job. In my honest opinion, you don't get results from something like that instantly, that's a mid-to-long term gain.



By all accounts the people on the board, including Levy himself, are no stranger to a complicated high value deal. They have done plenty of them. If the manager said "I want this forward [Berahino]. If you can't get him, I don't want anyone else", what do you do? Do you get a second rate player in any way? Do you get Frazier Campbell in? Or Andy Booth? To me, the biggest sign of us changing tack is that we haven't frittered away money on any old player.

It's not a popular view, but I don't think we're in as bad shape as people have dramatically made out.

As long as Kane doesn't get injured we're ok. If for example he ripped his hamstring tonight and was out for 2 months, we would be doing well not to get drawn into a battle at the bottom of the table.

 

[UbeAstard]

Yes - Like I said that is my opinion so each to their own. I am a businessman myself and believe you can play and negotiate hard without compromising your integrity, honour and class at the same time. The Fryers deal was low and classless In MY VIEW.

Give us the FACTS of that deal please.

 

[Smokinhotspur]

Give us the FACTS of that deal please.

Sorry my fault - I thought this was a fan's forum where opinions sometimes based on FACT, sometimes on perception, sometimes on tabloid reports etc... can be shared. Oh wait a minute....

 

[Stoof]

I think it is a very naive view for a manager to say I want this one player and no one else will do. What if Chelsea, Man City or another big fish also become interested in the player then what? For a club our size we need back up options as there are several reasons a deal might not go through. The back up does not have to be a long term signing that costs the club for years either. It could just be a loan that can slot in for league cup games against minnows, Europa league games in far flung locations or to come on for the last 20 mins in a game that we are winning and controlling to give Kane a breather.

Look at West ham, they wanted Ade saw that deal was looking problematic and switched over to Jelavic. Even Chelsea with all their financial might had to give up on Stones and sign a couple of young defenders because leaving yourself short especially in specialist positions is just not an option.

If Kane were to get injured now we could be jeopardising the long term futures of Son and Njie by heaping the goal scoring responsibility onto the shoulders of young players who have not been prolific in their fledgling careers so far, have no experience of possibly the most demanding league in Europe and could still be learning the language and adjusting to new teammates/culture etc. If their confidence and belief goes early it could be difficult to build them up again. We are also jeopardising Kane's future and putting him at risk of burnout particularly after a long breakthrough season, two post season tours and a U21 Championship. These risks cannot be underestimated and why it was imperative we got another specialist striker in even if only until Jan when we could look at a longer term solution.

I'm not sure what sort of "out-and-out striker" we would be looking for who is going to be good enough and also happy to play second fiddle to Kane.

I don't know what sort of player that is. Berahino is different as he can play all across the front three. If we're looking at another one of those, fair enough, but I reckon that's what we've done with Son and N'Jie.

My next comment would be "who do you think would play that role"? And the answer I have received is "that's not for me to tell you, that's for the scouts/Paul Mitchell/his black box".

In world football, there probably aren't a GREAT number of players that will come to us on the basis that they are not first choice but that are good enough to be first choice somewhere else.

 

[Stoof]

Sorry my fault - I thought this was a fan's forum where opinions sometimes based on FACT, sometimes on perception, sometimes on tabloid reports etc... can be shared. Oh wait a minute....

No, but at the same time you must have reasons why that was "classless and low". Not many business people would say that. They would say it was clever.

 

[double0]

These clubs make me laugh Tottenham haven't done anything illegal WBA are childish crying to the press but behind closed doors encouraging Tottenham to make that 25M bid.

Southampton not wanting to sell to us as they think we're rivals however they've sold 4 players to Liverpool. Well we got the best bit of business in Pochettinho imo.

 

[Smokinhotspur]

No, but at the same time you must have reasons why that was "classless and low". Not many business people would say that. They would say it was clever.

For me this is very much a personal view and i can understand how others don't see it the same way. Whilst I don't have any facts on the deal, it had a very UNDERHAND/BACKDOOR feel about it and I don't think a club of the standing of Totteham Hotspur should need to resort to that type of approach when trying to take a player. I ask myself the question how would I view it if another club employed the same tactic to get a young aspiring player out of our club.

I don't mean to sound all holier than thou like I said it is just a personal view. Some people see diving as being wily and clever whilst others see it as blatant cheating.

PS - You give business people a bad name. It is possible to be ethical and do business well at the same time you know

 

[Smokinhotspur]

I'm not sure what sort of "out-and-out striker" we would be looking for who is going to be good enough and also happy to play second fiddle to Kane.

I don't know what sort of player that is. Berahino is different as he can play all across the front three. If we're looking at another one of those, fair enough, but I reckon that's what we've done with Son and N'Jie.

My next comment would be "who do you think would play that role"? And the answer I have received is "that's not for me to tell you, that's for the scouts/Paul Mitchell/his black box".

In world football, there probably aren't a GREAT number of players that will come to us on the basis that they are not first choice but that are good enough to be first choice somewhere else.

The point is that you don't necessarily need a great player to come in and provide some back up/emergency cover until January. Let me give you an example: if I was given the choice of where we are now with just Kane as an out and out striker or the option to take a player like Jelavic on loan until Jan I would take Jelavic all day long as somebody who could do a decent enough job in Carling Cups games and generally take some pressure and workload off Kane here and there.

It certainly wouldn't be my first choice and I would hope our scouts could come up with better options but at least it would represent a pragmatic solution until Jan. We would have a player who knows the PL, who you would expect to be motivated to get himself on the shop window at a higher level in the hope of a big move or permanent deal in Jan and Hull would get a decent loan fee out of it and a big earner off the books which should also keep them happy.

I just think we needed to be a bit more creative than settling on one target that was looking increasingly unlikely and allowing the window to shut down on us. If Kane gets injured we are taking a massive risk in putting the majority of our goalscoring responsibility on Njie and Son who are not out and out strikers and should ideally be gradually bedded into the positions they were bought for which is in the forward three behind a main man.

 

[Japhet]

The point is that you don't necessarily need a great player to come in and provide some back up/emergency cover until January. Let me give you an example: if I was given the choice of where we are now with just Kane as an out and out striker or the option to take a player like Jelavic on loan until Jan I would take Jelavic all day long as somebody who could do a decent enough job in Carling Cups games and generally take some pressure and workload off Kane here and there.

It certainly wouldn't be my first choice and I would hope our scouts could come up with better options but at least it would represent a pragmatic solution until Jan. We would have a player who knows the PL, who you would expect to be motivated to get himself on the shop window at a higher level in the hope of a big move or permanent deal in Jan and Hull would get a decent loan fee out of it and a big earner off the books which should also keep them happy.

I just think we needed to be a bit more creative than settling on one target that was looking increasingly unlikely and allowing the window to shut down on us. If Kane gets injured we are taking a massive risk in putting the majority of our goalscoring responsibility on Njie and Son who are not out and out strikers and should ideally be gradually bedded into the positions they were bought for which is in the forward three behind a main man.

Does anybody really believe that was the case? I know I don't. I think it's far more likely that Levy believed we could get Berahino at some point even if it meant agreeing to WBA's valuation and consequently let our other options fizzle out, only for WBA to pull the carpet out at the last minute. Any protestations to the contrary seem like a face saving exercise to me.

 

[Donki]

For me this is very much a personal view and i can understand how others don't see it the same way. Whilst I don't have any facts on the deal, it had a very UNDERHAND/BACKDOOR feel about it and I don't think a club of the standing of Totteham Hotspur should need to resort to that type of approach when trying to take a player. I ask myself the question how would I view it if another club employed the same tactic to get a young aspiring player out of our club.

I don't mean to sound all holier than thou like I said it is just a personal view. Some people see diving as being wily and clever whilst others see it as blatant cheating.

PS - You give business people a bad name. It is possible to be ethical and do business well at the same time you know

The whole Zeki Fryers move could simply be that Standard Leige fancied the player at £250K and bought him then Spurs offered Leige a chance to tripple their money in a short period of time. Of course you could think that Levy contacted Leige and whispered his sneeky plan in the CE's ear and they all laughed the way to the bank. Actually I think that idea is a little far fetched and it just happened the way it did. But when you throw Levy into the mix the papers like to bend to the image that has been created of Levy.

As a bussiness man what exactly has he done wrong? IMO not a great deal, he wants the best deal for THFC and is willing to do deals for player, and spend big. Recently look at our deals for Paulinho and Son, even N'Jie was a relivively big outlay for a young player. Levy can do a deal with very little fuss when everyone is agreeing but he will stand hos ground and wont offer over the odds of what he deems acceptable.

Of course people will want to voice their opinion and say Levy is this or that, but what is most telling about Levy himself is that doesn't feel the need to speak about transfer dealings openly no matter how much provocation he gets. He will get a booting from the press and a fair few other owners/chairmen but IMO stays professional about the job. To say hes unethical or that he brings down the public perception of the club in my opinion is both wrong and very niave.

 

[Donki]

The point is that you don't necessarily need a great player to come in and provide some back up/emergency cover until January. Let me give you an example: if I was given the choice of where we are now with just Kane as an out and out striker or the option to take a player like Jelavic on loan until Jan I would take Jelavic all day long as somebody who could do a decent enough job in Carling Cups games and generally take some pressure and workload off Kane here and there.

It certainly wouldn't be my first choice and I would hope our scouts could come up with better options but at least it would represent a pragmatic solution until Jan. We would have a player who knows the PL, who you would expect to be motivated to get himself on the shop window at a higher level in the hope of a big move or permanent deal in Jan and Hull would get a decent loan fee out of it and a big earner off the books which should also keep them happy.

I just think we needed to be a bit more creative than settling on one target that was looking increasingly unlikely and allowing the window to shut down on us. If Kane gets injured we are taking a massive risk in putting the majority of our goalscoring responsibility on Njie and Son who are not out and out strikers and should ideally be gradually bedded into the positions they were bought for which is in the forward three behind a main man.

If we had of ended up with Jelivic the reaction would have been the same if not worse, you would be taking an aging player and giving him at least a 1 year deal, if not more. LEvy would have got the same roasting that he did for getting no one in. In reality we just have to keep Kane fit for over 3 months, and i believe Son can do a job there. Poch himself has stated on numerous times about having attacking players that give options, the ability to inter change, N'Jie and Son both tick this box. He has also said its not a matter of getting players in its about gettign the right players in.

 

[Dennism]

I am sick to death over the biased press coverage against Spurs. We have pursued players in the same way as other clubs but are singled out for criticism. Jeremy Pease is a total hypocrite and has used Twitter to manipulate the media and stir up trouble (far more than Berahino ever has). Southampton have never got over losing Pochetino and are sulking (like Jamie Redknapp over our sacking of Daddy). We have bent over backwards to accommodate Adebayor. Through all of this Daniel Levy has kept a dignified silence.
The aggressive and bullying tactics used by other clubs to unsettle our players are ignored or praised. In particular, United wth Berbatov, Liverpool with Keane, Chelsea with Modric and Arsenal with Judas. Real Madrid are of course masters in the art.

 

[Dennism]

Ranting against Spurs provides the Southampton board with a good smoke screen behind which they are selling all their players to Liverpool, United and Arsenal.

 

[grittyspur1]

The impending TV deal & the monies associated have encouraged mid table clubs like Southampton & WBA to hold on to their prized assets, as no club wants to get relegated this season. Blaming Spurs & Levy for the reluctance to sell is foolish. Slur Alex tried it a few years ago after Manure tapped up Carrick & it cost them extra when it came time to sign Berbatov.
Spurs have an abundance of young English talent in the pipeline & not all of these players will end up at the club. With the new homegrown player rules going into effect next season, many clubs will be searching for talented domestic players to fill their squads. One gets the feeling that some of these outspoken chairmen are going to regret their anti- Levy outburst sooner rather than later!

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

I'm not sure what sort of "out-and-out striker" we would be looking for who is going to be good enough and also happy to play second fiddle to Kane.

I don't know what sort of player that is. Berahino is different as he can play all across the front three. If we're looking at another one of those, fair enough, but I reckon that's what we've done with Son and N'Jie.

My next comment would be "who do you think would play that role"? And the answer I have received is "that's not for me to tell you, that's for the scouts/Paul Mitchell/his black box".

In world football, there probably aren't a GREAT number of players that will come to us on the basis that they are not first choice but that are good enough to be first choice somewhere else.

Should we not be looking for a player to compete with Kane rather than 'play second fiddle'.

I mean isn"t competition for places in any team a good thing. How long should we wait and how poor do we let Kane get before going out and buying a first fiddle?

"I would never buy a player that thought in his own mind that he was a back up to any player i already had" Bill Shankly

 

[Smokinhotspur]

Does anybody really believe that was the case? I know I don't. I think it's far more likely that Levy believed we could get Berahino at some point even if it meant agreeing to WBA's valuation and consequently let our other options fizzle out, only for WBA to pull the carpet out at the last minute. Any protestations to the contrary seem like a face saving exercise to me.

Doesn't matter what he believed or did not believe. The fact is he couldn't be sure and by letting the window run till the last day he was taking a massive risk and should have had a back up option in place.

 

[Smokinhotspur]

If we had of ended up with Jelivic the reaction would have been the same if not worse, you would be taking an aging player and giving him at least a 1 year deal, if not more. LEvy would have got the same roasting that he did for getting no one in. In reality we just have to keep Kane fit for over 3 months, and i believe Son can do a job there. Poch himself has stated on numerous times about having attacking players that give options, the ability to inter change, N'Jie and Son both tick this box. He has also said its not a matter of getting players in its about gettign the right players in.

Je;avic is just a name I plucked out because I was asked the question. You don't have to do a one year deal like I said it could have been only until Jan as cover for less important games and I am sure our scouts could come up with more crediible options.

What makes you believe Son can do a job upfront or is that just blind hope as that's all we've got at this point. He has hardly played there for Leverkusen as Kiessling is the main man there. Do you think Chelsea planned to take the Nantes defender as first choice? They were forced into it when they clearly weren't going to get Stones. It's what you do as a responsible football club because you never leave yourself short especially in specialist positions where you need more than somebody who may be able to do a job.