What's new

Saturday's Tactical Misfailings

ero1x

Well-Known Member
Nov 16, 2004
1,533
1,207
What on earth is a "misfailing"? A success?

Who is "Krankjar" and when did we buy him? Did we drop our wide playing Croatian International, Niko Kranjcar?

When did Luka Modric last play in central midfield? When did he last play a bad game from any position for us?

When did our left footed striker, Gio, become a right footed winger? And when did he star for Barcelona, in either position? Wasn't he struggling to make an impression at Ipswich most recently?

And when did our "number 10" playmaker Adel Taraabt ever play on a wing? How would his propensity to try and beat everyone at least twice work better against a 5 man midfield set up to defend than it does in the Championship for QPR? Let alone better than the incisive passing of our Croational internationals who have starred for us?

Sorry to nitpick, but if you are going to write a column it really has to be better written and better thought through than this.

:clap: :clap:
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
33,988
81,937
Sorry but I very strongly disagree with the OP. We created three simple chances that our strikers should have buried however well the keeper played, our long range shooting was appalling and we had around 20 corners which were all poorly taken and we didn't take advantage. These aren't tactical errors. We gave them very little at the back and we should have won.

When we don't win it's always easy to say "why didn't Pav/Bentley/Gio play?" They've barely had an effective game between them and although they might have put in a good performance they weren't anymore likely than the guys who played and who have contributed to us being 4th in the table.

The manager can't put the ball in the back of the net, guess that Krancjar, Hudd would play poorly or that our three strikers would all miss sitters. Sorry but this thread is just whingeing at a manager who is doing a fantastic job for us.
 

billnick

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2003
1,246
341
Also, we still haven't learnt the lesson from the Barca game this season. When you get close to the oppositions box you have to play inbetween the midfield and defence - 'entre líneas' as it is known here. By talking up 'false positions' you start to drag midfielders and central defenders out of their holes. Quick passing and movement like this opens up every one. We on the other hand ran the ball up to about 10 metres from the penalty area and then never worked through the lines of 5 and 4. We went sideways, gave it away or in the case of Defoe shot when there was no shot on. This is what we have to change in my opinion. The ability to play between their defence and midfield quickly must be worked on otherwise they will all do the same to us.

Easly the most sensible thing posted on this thread. Aside from this I felt we played quite well, but this is a consistent failing despite which we still created a hatful of chances and that only serves to show how poor the opposition (aside from the keeper) was. Watching on TV, the result was inevitable for precisely this reason.

The last point you make I don't think can be stressed highly enough - we've already played everyone once, we'll start to see a lot of teams playing the way Hull did almost immediately if they've any sense. We're lucky, I think, in that Modric already knows how to play that area of the pitch - but everybody else needs to take heed pretty bloody quickly.
 

Top_Boy

New Member
Jan 8, 2006
20
0
1) Misfailings, Kranjcar. Point taken, when trying to scribble down a column during a 30 minute lunch break these mistakes can happen.

2) Luka came to the club as a central midfielder. That is his favoured position. That is where he played when he first arrived at the club. That is where he plays for Croatia. He may start on the left hand side for us but he plays like a centre midfielder. Fantastic when Lennon is on the right stretching the opposition, but on Saturday with both Modric and Kranjcar on the wings I felt the play became too conjested in the middle and therefore both became less effective.


3) In highsight I should have been more clear in that I'd have Gio play on the LEFT wing as opposed to a direct replacement for Lennon on the right. The point I was trying to make was that he could take a similar role on the left as to what Lennon does on the right. Accept I didn't get that across well at all in the mini rant.
But didn't he score something like 7 goals in 14 games for Ipswich. Hardly struggling.

4) Taraabt was deployed on the left hand side of our midfield under the jol era ( I remember he was used as a second half sub in the 4 - 0 win against Derby County and played there on numerous other occasions) but who is to say what his best position is? He (and Gio for that matter) are still very young players. Other players have managed to change positions (think Thierry Henry) so why could that not happen in this case? They have all the attributes to be top class wingers.


I'm not suggesting that Gio play in the same team as Lennon, but when Lennon is injured I feel he could give us the closest thing to a like-for-like replacement i.e. someone who can run at players with pace. Why can't he be given a chance?




What on earth is a "misfailing"? A success?

Who is "Krankjar" and when did we buy him? Did we drop our wide playing Croatian International, Niko Kranjcar?

When did Luka Modric last play in central midfield? When did he last play a bad game from any position for us?

When did our left footed striker, Gio, become a right footed winger? And when did he star for Barcelona, in either position? Wasn't he struggling to make an impression at Ipswich most recently?

And when did our "number 10" playmaker Adel Taraabt ever play on a wing? How would his propensity to try and beat everyone at least twice work better against a 5 man midfield set up to defend than it does in the Championship for QPR? Let alone better than the incisive passing of our Croational internationals who have starred for us?

Sorry to nitpick, but if you are going to write a column it really has to be better written and better thought through than this.
 

Top_Boy

New Member
Jan 8, 2006
20
0
*Correction - Gio scored 4 goals in 8 appearances for Ipswich. Apologies for the oversight.

1) Misfailings, Kranjcar. Point taken, when trying to scribble down a column during a 30 minute lunch break these mistakes can happen.

2) Luka came to the club as a central midfielder. That is his favoured position. That is where he played when he first arrived at the club. That is where he plays for Croatia. He may start on the left hand side for us but he plays like a centre midfielder. Fantastic when Lennon is on the right stretching the opposition, but on Saturday with both Modric and Kranjcar on the wings I felt the play became too conjested in the middle and therefore both became less effective.


3) In highsight I should have been more clear in that I'd have Gio play on the LEFT wing as opposed to a direct replacement for Lennon on the right. The point I was trying to make was that he could take a similar role on the left as to what Lennon does on the right. Accept I didn't get that across well at all in the mini rant.
But didn't he score something like 7 goals in 14 games for Ipswich. Hardly struggling.

4) Taraabt was deployed on the left hand side of our midfield under the jol era ( I remember he was used as a second half sub in the 4 - 0 win against Derby County and played there on numerous other occasions) but who is to say what his best position is? He (and Gio for that matter) are still very young players. Other players have managed to change positions (think Thierry Henry) so why could that not happen in this case? They have all the attributes to be top class wingers.


I'm not suggesting that Gio play in the same team as Lennon, but when Lennon is injured I feel he could give us the closest thing to a like-for-like replacement i.e. someone who can run at players with pace. Why can't he be given a chance?
 

simo1989

New Member
Jun 3, 2007
25
1
Im all for a good rant, but Gio is a striker and Taraabt plays off the striker, so neither would give us natural width, neither are they better wide players than Modric or Krankjar.

Pav doesn't get a game because the is not as good as Crouch, Defoe or Keane.

21 games played and we're only 10 points off the top of the league, i can't remember the last time we were in this position.

Up the Spurs.

dos santos is not a striker! how can you say he wouldn't offer the team width, he did used to play as a winger when he was used at barcelona. Surely pavlyuchenko should be given a chance as he cannot be in worse form than keane is currently
 

pistolP

Well-Known Member
Aug 1, 2003
2,993
696
I can't understand the amount of love Gio gets on here. What evidence is there to say he is the saviour that everyone seems to think he is? Harry see's him every day in training and has decided that Gio obviously isn't good enough/ready yet.

Harry sees him every day in training, yea,yea. Harry must be the greastest manager that has ever existed and he must be god.
 

JimmyG2

SC Supporter
Dec 7, 2006
15,014
20,779
Don't nit pick when someone writes a column.
The main drift of this piece is clear and although I don't agree with some of it there is nothing that isn't clearly expressed despite the odd error.
It is deceptively difficult to write a coherent piece of analysis as I have proved on several occasions and takes some confidence and nerve.
On Saturday we could and should have won by three or four goals. The fault was with the strikers in the main for failing to convert the clear chances created. And it is a fact that Boaz Myhill played exceptionally well.
You can't blame Harry for the failings of the central strikers and the awful shooting of the midfielders which has been a fault in several recent games.
Pace is not just a matter of fast movement by an individual player but of thought and greater pace on the ball. Our build up play is thoughtful and patient but lacks any penetrating change of pace that surprises the opposition.
We rarely play one two's around the box. Despite the players beiong individually good there is little sign of understanding between players. There is too little movement off the ball, we are often too static in our play.
All this is made much worse without Lennon. More and more teams are going to play this way so we had better learn to overcome it, with better coaching and more imagination by Harry and the players.
But Saturday was down to poor finishing and good goalkeeping.

By the way is it true that Gomes was arrested after the game for persistent loitering without intent? Do we actually need a goalkeeper. Why not play 11 outfield players. Is it allowed in the rules?
In other words 'lighten up' and that includes you Top Boy and thanks for the article.
PS we are having a very good season and are still in the top four despite ourselves.
 

jamieee

Member
Jan 8, 2007
285
10
dos santos is not a striker! how can you say he wouldn't offer the team width, he did used to play as a winger when he was used at barcelona. Surely pavlyuchenko should be given a chance as he cannot be in worse form than keane is currently


Dos Santos IS a striker.... look on the Tottenham Web-Site in the Squad list (click on Teams ).
 

jamieee

Member
Jan 8, 2007
285
10
I don't think Gio was the answer. He is not a winger and will, like the croations, look to come inside more often than the likes of Lennon. It is a difficult situation to loose your most penatrative forward, if we had someone as good or better than Lennon then he may not play at all for example. Watching the games aginst Hull we did miss width but more importantly i feel we missed pace.

Hull defended very deep and gave little space for our midfield, width would have stretched the space but there still would have been 10 behind the ball at all times. What had me screaming from my seat was everytime Hull had an attack or a corner their defence came fairly high up the pitch, we'd win the ball back and then try and run it out of midfield. If Lennon was there it would be a long ball over the top and a straight sprint between Lennon and one of the Hull defenders - a race our little man would be tipped to win 9 times out of 10. On Saturday we just couldn't counter attack and that would have been our only real opportunity to break down the "parking the bus" tactics of Hull.

Looking at the bench i was surprised not to see more than Crouch and Jenas used, I understand both substitutions (Crouch for the added menace in the box and Jenas for a bit more forward motion from the midfield) but we had one more sub and we could have/should have used it in my opinion. who to use is a good question? Personally i would have liked to have seen a change in tactics in the second half and gone to 3 at the back - Hull offered nothing in attack and three CBs could have dealt with any of Hunts efforts. That would have allowed us to pull one of the croations into the middle for more creative/precise passing and pushed Bale further forward. Who to put on the right? Bentley. I know he's not done the business for us since he arrived but play him out on the right, remove his defensive duties and he will deliver 5-10 good crosses per game, with Crouch in the middle and Niko or Luka just behind the front 2 we may have found the breakthrough.

But what do we know hey - if we could manage we wouldn't be here wasting our companies time on the web, we'd be wearing our tracksuits and chewing gum.

:clap::clap::clap:

I was there (like I am every home game) and I was thinking after about 5 minutes that it was to congested in the middle, but Bale was running down the left wing at every chance he could ( I thought he was great), but as the match got to the last 3rd of the game, I wanted H.R. to try Danny Rose on the left to help out Garath Bale, I keeped on saying to my friends that it was looking like being like the Stoke game after about 35 minutes.

You are right, as you say Gio is NOT a Striker, and I would love to see him get some more chances this season, but as a striker or just behind the strikers/ striker.
 

bryanabutler

SC Supporter
Jul 15, 2007
1,342
583
You do know that Lennon played in two of the three home debacles this season? Apart from that when has Redknapp ever been called a tactical genius or anything similar? Never. Why? Because he isn't. He is a manager of the old school - a man manager with an additional great strength which is his ability to sign the same players over and over again. No, in all seriousness he is regarded as a manager who has been able to spot a bargain and as such this should be recognised regardless of any other failing he might have.

I think also Redknapp is a 'lucky' manager but this luck comes from always having a few highly experienced players and coaches around him. From his Bournemouth days through to Wet Spam and Pompey. These people I believe have always had far more influence on events that perhaps the media has realised. Team meetings, half-time changes etc are a sure are decided by his team and coaches far more than by him alone. This I might add is not uncommon or strange as it might sound either but it rarely gets out. Infact I used to know Alan Ball and he mentioned several times similiar things especially at Southampton about when he was still playing there.

I personally have been disappointed by some of Redknapps changes and tactics at home when we are trying to batter down the door against a few of the Pubs teams we have been miserable against this season. The game against Hull was no exception - the lack of pace in the play was our down fall. We were sluggish and rarely moved the ball quickly to players feet. You pull these rigid teams apart by moving the ball quickly and the movement of players. Frequently we held on too long which allowed the to regain their shape. This was the same against the other pub teams.

Also, we still haven't learnt the lesson from the Barca game this season. When you get close to the oppositions box you have to play inbetween the midfield and defence - 'entre líneas' as it is known here. By talking up 'false positions' you start to drag midfielders and central defenders out of their holes. Quick passing and movement like this opens up every one. We on the other hand ran the ball up to about 10 metres from the penalty area and then never worked through the lines of 5 and 4. We went sideways, gave it away or in the case of Defoe shot when there was no shot on. This is what we have to change in my opinion. The ability to play between their defence and midfield quickly must be worked on otherwise they will all do the same to us.
Agree a very good post
 

Spurs_Bear

Well-Known Member
Jan 7, 2009
17,094
22,286
What a ridiculous way to re-announce yourself after a while away from the Community. It's funny how people seem to queue up to write bullshit articles like this after a game like Saturdays, I wonder if anybody would have written one entitled "Redknapp's tactical brilliance" if any of our 3 strikers could've hit a cows arse with a banjo and we would've won the game 6-0 like we should've done?

I thought it was a wind up after I actually read the words "former Barca STAR Dos Santos" buy then it became clear that it wasn't.

Thanks for taking the time to write such a long article though, always commend people for doing that, even if it is a complete load of bollocks.

Barca star Dos Santos......brilliant.
 

spurs_viola

Rui Costa,dreamspurs no10
Mar 10, 2005
2,454
0
I am not intending to be dismissive of either of them. They are young players on loan looking to improve and I hope they have a long and bright future with us. But they were not being used as a comparison to our other youngsters (Livermore), but rather as replacements for two proven internationals, one of whom can genuinely lay claim to being world class. Even if they have done relatively well at their respective Championship clubs, for players of their age, they have certainly not done well enough to substantiate any suggestion that they should be selected instead of Modric or Kranjcar. It is that suggestion that I am being dismissive of; not the players themselves.

Gosh, it is so simple, and yet you and some others seem to be unable to get it. The question is not whether Gio is better than Modric or Kranjcar. Of course overall he isn't yet. The question is whether someone like Gio may be a better option to provide width and at least to come on as an early 2nd half sub against spoiling teams. I don't think anyone is suggesting he replaces BOTH of them simultaneously!

Unpredictability and speed of thought combined with quick movement and play is what breaks down even the toughest of defensive walls in the end (usually). Modric can provide it often. But he can't do it all the time on his own. Gio is the other one who can provide that unpredictability, with pace as an added bonus.

The first, crucial goal for Arsenal v Bolton yesterday showed that again very clearly - the quick one-two with a clever, disguised back-heel from Eduardo for Fabregas to score inside the pen area was something the gritty Bolton defenders could not cope with. And of course the fact that Fabregas did not shoot straight at the keeper was important. Instead of making it look like a goalkeeper "pulled off another great save", he calmly slotted the ball home away from the keeper.
 

spurs_viola

Rui Costa,dreamspurs no10
Mar 10, 2005
2,454
0
I agree that Modric and Kranjcar are probably the best/most creative players we have and I would have without doubt started them ahead of Dos Santos too.

But I have heard this "he can't play out wide" rubbish too many times. He can and has to great affect for Mexico and to a lesser extent for Barca. Yes he has stated his preferred position is a number 10 but jesus, Modric has stated his prefers to play more centrally like he does for Croatia, that doesn't stop him playing well out wide.

Also, to dismiss both Taraabt and Dos Santos' achievments whilst on loan (as many are at the moment) is so harsh. Dos Santos did really well (even scoring 4 goals in 8 games) at Ipswich and I personally think Taraabt has done pretty well too.
....
Well said and pretty much what I was saying so many times here, to the obvious annoyance from people who see "striker" next to his name on the official site and take it as set in stone without possibility of other options.
Mexican official page for Concacaf showed him as a Midfielder, and Barca's official sources described him as an attacking midfielder/forward on more than one occasion.

The great entertainer Rene Higuita often said he would have liked to play infield / as a forward. And he scored quite a few goals too. But it did not mean he had to be considered only as a goalscorer.
 

jamieee

Member
Jan 8, 2007
285
10
I agree that Modric and Kranjcar are probably the best/most creative players we have and I would have without doubt started them ahead of Dos Santos too.

But I have heard this "he can't play out wide" rubbish too many times. He can and has to great affect for Mexico and to a lesser extent for Barca. Yes he has stated his preferred position is a number 10 but jesus, Modric has stated his prefers to play more centrally like he does for Croatia, that doesn't stop him playing well out wide.

Also, to dismiss both Taraabt and Dos Santos' achievments whilst on loan (as many are at the moment) is so harsh. Dos Santos did really well (even scoring 4 goals in 8 games) at Ipswich and I personally think Taraabt has done pretty well too.
....
Well said and pretty much what I was saying so many times here, to the obvious annoyance from people who see "striker" next to his name on the official site and take it as set in stone without possibility of other options.
Mexican official page for Concacaf showed him as a Midfielder, and Barca's official sources described him as an attacking midfielder/forward on more than one occasion.

The great entertainer Rene Higuita often said he would have liked to play infield / as a forward. And he scored quite a few goals too. But it did not mean he had to be considered only as a goalscorer.


I would trust Harry to know where to play Gio, As I said before, I would love to see him play more this season and I think I will leave it to Harry to decide where to playing him, Harry will see him almost every day on the training pitch.
 

Chedozie

Well-Known Member
May 19, 2005
2,625
2,646
dos santos is not a striker! how can you say he wouldn't offer the team width, he did used to play as a winger when he was used at barcelona. Surely pavlyuchenko should be given a chance as he cannot be in worse form than keane is currently


He is a striker, he is listed on the Tottenham website as a Striker and he plays for Mexico as a striker.
 

jolsnogross

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2005
3,730
5,431
Shirtfront and others have said it already, but it's worth repeating:

I like when someone posts an opinion piece, but one that begins with "misfailings" is probably going to be a tough read. The cliche about square pegs and round holes is bad enough without suggesting new square pegs as a solution. Criticising Corluka is an opinion anyone can have, but seems a bit bizarre given his good form. And suggesting we just give people a game when we've got poor opposition at home, as a way of using our squad, is absurd.

As I said, I appreciate the effort but your argument isn't very convincing because 1) 'misfailing' isn't a word and 2) it's just another version of "Gio and Adel are the answer".

I agree that breaking down defensive opposition at home is too much of a problem to be down to bad luck. But the answer to this simply smashing the ball in the back of the net. Hence the interest in RVN. Our strikers aren't as clinical, lethal or prolific as we like to think they are. The 11 points lost to Stoke, Wolves and Hull will hurt us and they would've been saved if our strikers scored with one or two of the many chances we created in those 3 matches. If we're after RVN then it appears the management are thinking along these lines.
 
Top