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Schizophrenic

YIDBOY

New Member
Feb 11, 2005
128
0
Why don't you choose a second team to support for your darkside? someone like Chelsea, Celtic, Barca or Inter Milan then you will have 2 good sides which will make you a more rounded person rather than a mentalist.

Because i have supported Spurs for Donkeys years, through thick and thin, and i have an opinion, as you have your own opinion, that Spurs are not heading in the right direction under Jol. Spurs is in my blood as it is with all other fans but it doesn't mean that i have to be happy with everything that goes on at the club. I'm concerned, as are my other spurs pals that we are not progressing, in fact quite the opposite. In 2-1/2yrs at the club Jol has only managed to mastermind one solitary victory over the "big 4". That isn't good enough is it?? Add to that the fact that we now seem to struggle against poor teams. Also, when is he going to realise that his away system doesn't work, can he not see that we are shocking away?
 

spurs4europe

misses the snow!
Oct 11, 2004
1,105
201
its a bit worrying about ledders right now isn't it?!?

i guess the difference between you and me though is that i don't agree with one line:

'a club like Spurs should not have to rely on one man to keep the team together'

i think king is our only world-class player (berbatov is not quite, but that's not for now), our most important player, and our club captain. i think you underestimate his role at the club. any team, especially a team such as ours, would struggle to replace such a player - the likes of terry and chelsea, ferdinand and manusa (before vidic) come to mind. we're a big club, but not that big that we have world-class, or near world-class back up, and we'll suffer for it right now.

i agree that we're going to have to get used to playing without ledley, so i don't understand why the board wouldn't shell out near on 10m for an anton ferdinand or a davies when we are in such dire need of a very good defender (with excellent prospects) and premiership experience.

from what i read in the forums, jol is extremely upset with comolli for getting zokora (i guess he just doesn't fit in with our possession style of play). he also reckons hudd is about 2 seasons off of being the level we need him to be, for which i imagine carrick is the benchmark. it seems to me he's using what he's got available, but it's not what he wants so he's doing the best he can. jol's is trying to instill a style of play into us, a culture of possession football, and i doubt he's going to change that just because of zokora who can't (who is a great athlete, but perhaps not such a great footballer...but i'm not completely decided on that), even if it is for the benfit of this season, because 1. it will set him back in his plans and 2. changing styles mid-season would be counter productive most probably.

i still maintain we need to wait, as i'm sure you can tell given my posts throughout this article, and i think we can tell that the balance is still not quite right. the only thing i'm worried about is if we replace these players again next season with ones that are more suited to the system then we might end up repeating half of this season again.
 

danielneeds

Kick-Ass
May 5, 2004
24,179
48,764
Anyone who is thinking of calling for Jol's head (even if only half of you is thinking of it) is a moron.

In his first season we had our best league finish in 16....thats 16 years!!

This season we have suffered from injuries and bedding in new players, but i think we will rally and get something out of it.

Getting rid of jol will solve nothing, yes he is imperfect tactically on occassion, but overall he is moulding the team. It will take another year and a couple more big players but he will do it. Starting all over with another manager would put us back another two or three years.

There will be tough decisons to make in the future, I believe we will have to get shot of Defoe and Keane. Top clubs don't play with these kind of limited strikers who can't do anything with their back to goal. Look at Saha, Drogba, Kuyt, Rooney, you need strikers who are quick, can play on the last man, but are also able to hold the ball up or drop deep and link play. This is probably why we are strongly linked with Bent in the Summer. A front two of Berbs and Bent would offer the team alot more options.

There is also trouble brewing with Robinson, i think Jol persevere with him until the end of the season, but I wouldnt be surprised if Alnwick starts as number one next year.

Have faith in Jol, it was never going to be plain sailing all the way.
 

west indie

Well-Known Member
Dec 5, 2006
626
510
in the transfer window spurs should of made an offer for joey barton, we lack a midfield terrier that will get stuck in for the team.. our midfield sits off the opposition an never seems to put them under pressure? that is where most of our problem lies for all the money spent that department is totally unbalanced, along with the left side paralysis..
i for one would of been happy to see mido go to man city in exchange for distin and barton an would of threw in gardner, staleri an murphy as part of the deal, we need a graham roberts or stevie perryman type player come the summer, our team should not rest on the shoulders of teenage lennon, we have no pattern of play, pace, width or direction when he's out the side an all that responsibillity shouldnt be placed on the kid who's learning himself, we could burn him out same goes for the thudd? i saw we bid £10m for bale but surely if we would of threw in some players plus cash barton would of gave us more drive an power in midfield now which is surely needed...... all is not doom an gloom but the likes of jenas, zokora, marlbranque an gardner have to raise their games from now to the end of the season
 

Boaman

Member
Oct 31, 2005
935
1
Because i have supported Spurs for Donkeys years, through thick and thin, and i have an opinion, as you have your own opinion, that Spurs are not heading in the right direction under Jol. Spurs is in my blood as it is with all other fans but it doesn't mean that i have to be happy with everything that goes on at the club. I'm concerned, as are my other spurs pals that we are not progressing, in fact quite the opposite. In 2-1/2yrs at the club Jol has only managed to mastermind one solitary victory over the "big 4". That isn't good enough is it?? Add to that the fact that we now seem to struggle against poor teams. Also, when is he going to realise that his away system doesn't work, can he not see that we are shocking away?

I understand what it takes to support a club and I wasn't actually implying anyone should start supporting another team - My point is this is where Spurs are at the moment and we have to deal with it because sacking Jol and hating Tottenham isn't the answer (unless somebody can give me a good explanation why it is).
As a season ticket holder myself I'm far from happy with how things are currently going and I demand more from everyone at the club, like you say our away form is awful and what was a fortress last season (WHL) is now a wooden chalet. We both agree this is not good enough and not what we were expecting after last season.

However last season was good for us, we won away games weren't a push over apart from a few isolated away games, we haven't progressed from that which is disappointing. But this season we have played 12 league away games and a couple in the cup and we haven't played well in over half of them but that isn't a justified reason to sack a manager, Jol has earn't the right to be given time in this job and I'm pretty sure he will come good. Say we sack him now, who do we get? That sevilla bloke? Phil Scolari? Well none of them will leave before the end of the season and do they speak English? will they bring the immediate sucess you crave? well no one knows, we can only go on what we Spurs fans know and that is we have never benifited from sacking a manager after a run of bad results let alone midway through a season.

I know we haven't won against the big four enough, that is a shame but we aren't on their level yet, so beating them is not relevant as we have to beat the others in order to stay in and amongst the bigger clubs. We have to become a top 6 side before we become a top 4 side.

All I want is Spurs fans who are saying sack Jol to actually think about it logistically, without the red mist and see where they end up. Do you think Levy & Commoli are thinking we should get rid of Jol? It's very unlikely as they have backed him with big signings and we're in 3 of 4 competitions after losing in the SF to a great young, fresh team.
 

worcestersauce

"I'm no optimist I'm just a prisoner of hope
Jan 23, 2006
26,894
45,042
Joet Barton is just the name at the moment, he's thought if as the best midfielder at an average team and so people judge him differently to how they would if he played for a top team.
He gets stuck in and doesn't give up, unless he couldn't be arsed and by that I mean he's a moody bugger and will cause problems. Now maybe that can be tolerated in a Great player (roy keane for example) but not him, I just don't rate him.
 

YIDBOY

New Member
Feb 11, 2005
128
0
I understand what it takes to support a club and I wasn't actually implying anyone should start supporting another team - My point is this is where Spurs are at the moment and we have to deal with it because sacking Jol and hating Tottenham isn't the answer (unless somebody can give me a good explanation why it is).
As a season ticket holder myself I'm far from happy with how things are currently going and I demand more from everyone at the club, like you say our away form is awful and what was a fortress last season (WHL) is now a wooden chalet. We both agree this is not good enough and not what we were expecting after last season.

However last season was good for us, we won away games weren't a push over apart from a few isolated away games, we haven't progressed from that which is disappointing. But this season we have played 12 league away games and a couple in the cup and we haven't played well in over half of them but that isn't a justified reason to sack a manager, Jol has earn't the right to be given time in this job and I'm pretty sure he will come good. Say we sack him now, who do we get? That sevilla bloke? Phil Scolari? Well none of them will leave before the end of the season and do they speak English? will they bring the immediate sucess you crave? well no one knows, we can only go on what we Spurs fans know and that is we have never benifited from sacking a manager after a run of bad results let alone midway through a season.

I know we haven't won against the big four enough, that is a shame but we aren't on their level yet, so beating them is not relevant as we have to beat the others in order to stay in and amongst the bigger clubs. We have to become a top 6 side before we become a top 4 side.

All I want is Spurs fans who are saying sack Jol to actually think about it logistically, without the red mist and see where they end up. Do you think Levy & Commoli are thinking we should get rid of Jol? It's very unlikely as they have backed him with big signings and we're in 3 of 4 competitions after losing in the SF to a great young, fresh team.

I understand what you are saying. I dont think we should sack him now, that would not do us any favours at all for the rest of this season. As you say, logistically it would be a nightmare. On the other hand, if the season peters out like i suspect it will and we end up mid table and trophy-less then i think that the board will have plenty of amunition to fire him. I know that i cant see into the future but i really dont believe that Jol has the ability to push us on. Also, for me, its the style of our football that dissapoints me the most. Jol's way is not the Spurs way. Yes i know that we haven't played the Spurs way for along time but it doesn't mean that we should not strive for it. I want to see Spurs play with panache, and flair. I dont want to see them going away to shit teams and defending, i believe that Spurs should try to win every game.
 

paxton_soul

Grand Poobah
Jul 4, 2004
468
21
Joet Barton is just the name at the moment, he's thought if as the best midfielder at an average team and so people judge him differently to how they would if he played for a top team.
He gets stuck in and doesn't give up, unless he couldn't be arsed and by that I mean he's a moody bugger and will cause problems. Now maybe that can be tolerated in a Great player (roy keane for example) but not him, I just don't rate him.

The only reason people like Joey Barton is that he said it like it is in a media interview. If that is how we are picking our midfielders - then maybe we should persuade Eamonn Dumphy out of retirement...
 

Shirtfront

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2005
1,247
406
its a bit worrying about ledders right now isn't it?!?

i guess the difference between you and me though is that i don't agree with one line:

'a club like Spurs should not have to rely on one man to keep the team together'

i think king is our only world-class player (berbatov is not quite, but that's not for now), our most important player, and our club captain. i think you underestimate his role at the club. any team, especially a team such as ours, would struggle to replace such a player - the likes of terry and chelsea, ferdinand and manusa (before vidic) come to mind. we're a big club, but not that big that we have world-class, or near world-class back up, and we'll suffer for it right now.

i agree that we're going to have to get used to playing without ledley, so i don't understand why the board wouldn't shell out near on 10m for an anton ferdinand or a davies when we are in such dire need of a very good defender (with excellent prospects) and premiership experience.

from what i read in the forums, jol is extremely upset with comolli for getting zokora (i guess he just doesn't fit in with our possession style of play). he also reckons hudd is about 2 seasons off of being the level we need him to be, for which i imagine carrick is the benchmark. it seems to me he's using what he's got available, but it's not what he wants so he's doing the best he can. jol's is trying to instill a style of play into us, a culture of possession football, and i doubt he's going to change that just because of zokora who can't (who is a great athlete, but perhaps not such a great footballer...but i'm not completely decided on that), even if it is for the benfit of this season, because 1. it will set him back in his plans and 2. changing styles mid-season would be counter productive most probably.

i still maintain we need to wait, as i'm sure you can tell given my posts throughout this article, and i think we can tell that the balance is still not quite right. the only thing i'm worried about is if we replace these players again next season with ones that are more suited to the system then we might end up repeating half of this season again.

I agree with most of what you say.....except the suggestion that £10m on Anton Ferdinand would be money well spent. He is a liability. If he wasn't his brother's brother you would never have heard of him. My mate who's WHam through and through nearly fell off his chair laughing when were rumoured to have offerred £4m for him. He wanted to bite our hand off.
 

Shirtfront

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2005
1,247
406
From what I hear from a mate of Paul Kemsley's we'd better get used to being without Ledders this season. His injury is more serious than the club is letting on (although he never said what it is exactly). This is why we bought Rocha in the transfer window. Apparently we were looking at Stam too but he made it clear he wouldn't come to us.

And anyway, sure, we're better WITH Ledley but a club like Spurs should not have to rely on one man to keep the team together.

AND I'm not convinced he's the reason we're rubbish at the moment. Poor line-up and substitution tactics ... allowing the likes of Routledge and Ziegler to go out on loan and then not replacing them with width-providing wingers ... poor supply to the forwards as a result ... poor defending down the flanks as a result ...

It's not exactly rocket-science is it.

I reckon it's harder the rocket-science, to be honest. For example, you seem to suggest that we just had to hang on to Routledge and Ziegler and our problem on the flanks would be solved (or, to be fair to you, at least improved). But here are a few factors for the rocket science equation:

1. If we had have kept Routledge we would have not got Malbranque. His loan was key to that deal.

2. If we had have kept Routledge he would have put in a transfer request by now. Lennon has missed a few matches, but not enough to give Routledge the time he wants on the pitch.

3. If we had have kept Routledge we would have no-one to play on the left except Ziegler. Which brings me to....

4. Ziegler is just not as good as everyone seems to think. Yes, he showed promise, but since then he has been kept out of Wigan, Hamburg and our Andy Reid on the left sides. Come on, there must be a reason.
 

danielneeds

Kick-Ass
May 5, 2004
24,179
48,764
King being out is only part of the reason why the defence is leaky this season. We lack a really good holding player infront of the back four. Zokora is not that man.
 

Jonesey

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2004
695
391
I agree with you on Ziegler and Routledge ... but at least they would have given us options.

And ultimately if we're not going to play them - or indeed Routledge WAS crucial to the Malbranque deal - why not just sell them and put the cash towards a left-sided midfielder we WILL play?

Like I said, it's not rocket-science.
 

muffwah

Active Member
Feb 8, 2007
585
215
I cannot believe the people on this site giving Zokora crap. He was doing a perfectly good job earlier in the season with Jenas in front of him and it has become clear that he and Huddlestone cannot function together in central midfield, but this is caused more by Huddlestone's lack of movement up and down the pitch. It is no coincidence that when Huddlestone was making us unbeatable it was against poor opposition, I am yet to see a game where he plays against a top 6 side and we have had any control over the midfield. The guy just isn't ready yet.
 

Jonesey

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2004
695
391
Well sorry, but you're a better man - and fan - than I. Just watching the goal alerts come through on Sky Sports news made my stomach churn. But at least I knew I made the right decision not to waste £50 on the day.

Also, I think perhaps you're missing the point; what I'm trying to say is, I regard myself as a pretty good supporter of the club - maybe not as die hard as some of you lot admittedly. But after the last two Arsenal performances I just couldn't take the humiliation of seeing us lose by my predicted scoreline (0-3 incidentally). I was trying to illustrate the depression I feel about us at the moment.

And to feel this depressed about it - it's bringing me down more than most things at the moment - I think that probably shows I have loyalty.
 

striebs

Well-Known Member
Mar 18, 2004
4,504
667
Supporting Spurs has been a love hate relationship for me for about 10 years .

Sometimes I hope they get beaten humiliatingly if they are not trying properly .


This is not a result of bad results over the last 2 months but the decline which took place from the early 90's till about 2005 .

Don't blame yourself , we've stomached a lot and been treated abysmally by the PLC .

The slide has been arrested , keep your fingers off the panic button .
 

macspurs

Member
Aug 6, 2005
316
7
I agree it has not been nice to watch recently, but this team under Jol has still filled me full of Spursey pride like no Spurs team of the 90's did under anyone. I think we have to leave Jol and the boys to get on with it. They aren't daft and know what there is to do. Last 16 of the Uefa cup. When did that last happen?

I know it has been said before but look at how long Fergie got to steady ManUre before their great run of success.

Some of the tactical choices bug the wotnot out of me, but I have to keep the faith.
 

gusrowe

Well-Known Member
Feb 20, 2005
836
809
Look on the bright side....you are never alone with Schizophrenia!!!
 

davidmatzdorf

Front Page Gadfly
Jun 7, 2004
18,106
45,030
It's nothing to do with football, but someone ought to say it.

Schizophrenia has nothing at all to do with "split personality". Nothing even remotely to do with it.

It's a confusion with the phrase "schizoid personality", which is completely different.

Schizophrenia is a very common and debilitating mental illness, characterised by auditory hallucinations, confusion between fantasy and reality and often by obsessive or paranoid behaviour ... but not by a split personality.
 

Jonesey

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2004
695
391
It's nothing to do with football, but someone ought to say it.

Schizophrenia has nothing at all to do with "split personality". Nothing even remotely to do with it.

It's a confusion with the phrase "schizoid personality", which is completely different.


Schizophrenia is a very common and debilitating mental illness, characterised by auditory hallucinations, confusion between fantasy and reality and often by obsessive or paranoid behaviour ... but not by a split personality.

I do NOT believe you actually felt the need to type this. Do you HAVE a sense of humour?

In fact, one quick question ... were you bullied at school?

And as for "Schizophrenia is a very common and debilitating mental illness, characterised by auditory hallucinations, confusion between fantasy and reality and often by obsessive or paranoid behaviour ..."

I t's JUST like supporting Spurs then!:shifty:
 
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