Long post Warning. Apologies in advance if this is wildly off topic and in the wrong thread (I couldnt find one more relevant and this is a tactical thought, just 10 years too late).
Seeing as this seems as good-a time to reminisce as any with the Lane being demolished...thinking back on times gone-by
I was thinking the Jenas might be one of the biggest waste's of talent I have seen at the Lane - and I dont think it is at all his fault. He just strikes me as a classic example of a player who was a victim of bad management and mis-use.
His two best period's playing for us (imo) was in Lasgna-gate season as Left/Center midfield with Davids doing the dirty work and Carrick playing quarterback, and the second half of the '2 points from 8 games' season when he was playing as a Defensive Mid next to Palacios with Modric on the left and Bale overlapping from wingback. Two occasions where he had a very clear and defined role in the team.
So many times he was dumped in the centre with the brief of 'play the Gerrard role' without realising that a) Gerrard was surrounded by far better players and b) more than any other player I have seen, he needed a platform to flourish. There was a constant complaint that he needed a bit of a kick up the ass to take that step further - I just dont see it. Listening to him talk he seems like a dilligent, thoughtful and quite intelligent person and doesnt strike me as the sort of guy who lacks drive - in fact my memory of him is that he had an incredible engine.
There were constantly always rumours when he was here that Mourinho was after him, for a couple of seasons at Chelsea and then when Mourinho went to Inter and you can see why. Imo he would have been a complete revelation with savy management, and an even bigger shame is that he is SUCH a Poch sort of player. Dynamic, big engine, drives forward, good at a bit of everything - just came along ten years before his time.
And just rambling further (sorry for the long post) that Redknapp team in the second half of his first season was a really well drilled and underrated team we have put out in the last 10-15 years or so. Please correct me if I am wrong, but the team was something like:
Gomes
Corluka King Woodgate Bale
Palacios Jenas
-----------------------Modric
Lennon------------------------------------
Keane/Defoe/Bent/Pav
(Cant for the life of me remember the favoured strike combo)
We were playing some really good stuff and oddly tactically savy considering it was managed by Redknapp. The only other glimpse we got of this type of football played under Redknapp was the AC Milan away game. Played with 2 DM's with Modric cutting inside and Bale overlapping. The only scarring result I seem to remember was a 5-2 thumping away at Utd, but other than that we were playing some really good stuff toward the end of that season. Just a forgotten bit of Spurs recent history sandwiched between a the Ramos era/2points8games and a 4th placed finish after it.
Ramble over.
I mean, I'm all for the Jenas Appreciation Society stuff [genuinely], but talking about anything other than Bale after that Inter away game (and the home game) is the equivalent of pretending that overturning the fox hunting ban is a priority when there's a Brexit-inflected general election coming around the corner. [Will Mrs T. May please report to the sick burns ward immediately?]If you want a great example of a game that represents Jenas's time with us it's the Inter "Bale" away game. Because it was Jenas, running his arse off that set every single one of Bale's goals in motion, got us back into a game we were down a man, dead and buried, doing the work of two men as Huddlestone had ambled about doing fuck all for the first 45, but all anyone could talk about afterwards was Bale.
You had me with you up to the Redknapp Ramble Part2.
Long thread about our tactic, if anyone need some summer reading.
https://lukeballsburgess.wordpress....o-tottenham-hotspur-201617-tactical-analysis/
Think this thread needs a necessary bump given the current tactical shift which has in my opinion made us harder to watch lately.
I can’t go into the detail of some but I do think we’ve lost our high press, it is no longer habit and as a result we are far less creative than we were for the past two seasons.
I think this owes to a few things:
Apart from the odd game it’s all been a bit stale this season, I think the loss of our press is the main reason and I don’t think this will change until we revisit the tactics of the past three years. Whether it’s personnel, formation or coaching (or a combination), we are in dire need of impetus or we are going to regress.
- Formation. We have become bottom heavy. The 343 is great when you want to counter versus a side against whom it is difficult to dominate possession, but against a side who only want to sit back and shut you out like 12/20 teams in this league, there are fewer bodies further up the pitch to win the ball. We win the ball so deep that by the time we near the opposition final third we have a ten man defence to break down.
- Wanyama, or the lack of. Our one true hunter gather, chaser of the ball wherber it is, has been out all season and so we aren’t winning the ball back until our own third.
- The Winks conundrum. Yes, he takes the ball in tight areas and he moves it quickly, but that’s mainly in our half where it won’t hurt the opposition. He’s become a first choice player but he’s still only half a metronome. He needs that other half, where he releases play ahead of him quickly and instigated the attack. He’s currently more Pedro Mendes than Modric I’m afraid. This will improve with experience, as it did with Modric, and it also ties in with point one, more players in front of him moving in between the lines will give him more to aim at. Modric did have Bale, VdV and Lennon after all. That said, they used to say of Hoddle that he made the forwards run into the right areas by playing the passes into danger zones, perhaps some more of that would help. Take a chance Winks, you have the ability.
- Collective poor form of the front 3 who used to lead our press. Kane, Dele, Eriksen, all are playing within themselves.
Only saw the last 30 minutes or so (apparently the worse part of the game and I can only hope so) but am interested in how this evaluation stacks up. I will say that for whatever the respective merits it holds for #'s 1, 3, and 4 your assessment of Moura's typical game in #2 is somewhat wide of the mark.Looking at yesterday I think there’s a few things which struck me:
- Dele appeared far happier on the left than ever before. Only one game I know, but he seemed to use the space very well, was unpredictable in where he was going to roam and offered a real threat. Maybe, for a while at least, this position will get the most out of him, as while he lacks the pace of Zaha/ Martial, he certainly has the skill and imagination, and is far more productive both as a scorer and maker of goals. Couple this with his natural athleticism and you also ensure a well protected left back and a centre which is duly aided when the game gets congested.
- Equally, Moura tucking in as a second striker ala Sterling at the World Cup doesn’t suit him. He’s a player who likes to stretch the game and get in round the back, yesterday saw him unsure when to run, how close to Kane he should get and what the best use of the ball would be. He and Eriksen also seemed to get in each other’s way a lot.
- If we are going to play a midfield 2, be it with a 3421 or a 4231, then one of those two has to be far more adept at keeping us in possession. Dembele or Winks, or even dropping Eriksen back when all of our AMs are fit and available, is fine, especially with Dier or Wanyama anchoring, but Sissoko is a player who won’t bring that, regardless of what his uses may be. I would be different if we played a 433 as ball retention is naturally easier with a more packed midfield, but there were too many times yerserday where we just didn’t take good enough care of the ball.
- Kane, for all the good he does do when he roams away from the front, needs to be told to do it less even if it means he ends up on the periphery. He’s a great all round striker, true, but in a one forward system where the other attackers are more midfielders than forwards (Dele, Eriksen, Lucas, Lamela), Kane needs to trust the midfield to do its job and stay up top as a spearhead. Too often yesterday potentially dangerous situations ended up stalling because we were playing in front of Newcastle’s defence.
Looking at yesterday I think there’s a few things which struck me:
- Dele appeared far happier on the left than ever before. Only one game I know, but he seemed to use the space very well, was unpredictable in where he was going to roam and offered a real threat. Maybe, for a while at least, this position will get the most out of him, as while he lacks the pace of Zaha/ Martial, he certainly has the skill and imagination, and is far more productive both as a scorer and maker of goals. Couple this with his natural athleticism and you also ensure a well protected left back and a centre which is duly aided when the game gets congested.
He was doing the same in the later stage of the WC.Looking at yesterday I think there’s a few things which struck me:
- Kane, for all the good he does do when he roams away from the front, needs to be told to do it less even if it means he ends up on the periphery. He’s a great all round striker, true, but in a one forward system where the other attackers are more midfielders than forwards (Dele, Eriksen, Lucas, Lamela), Kane needs to trust the midfield to do its job and stay up top as a spearhead. Too often yesterday potentially dangerous situations ended up stalling because we were playing in front of Newcastle’s defence.
So what’s the official take on the formation we played against Newcastle ?
At first I thought we had lived up with Eriksen playing deep in a 3 with deli pushed tight up as lw in a 433, but as the game wore on I though it was more likely the 4231 just quite a fluid version.
Start of second half Sissoko looked more a box to box than a double pivot though.
I’m no tactics expert so curious what the consensus is?