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Sherwood: Players telling me I'll be sacked

Donki

Has a "Massive Member" Member
May 14, 2007
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How? TS himself, previously, has come out and said that him and Levy will be sitting down at the end of the season. Just because the media are running with stories doesn't embarrass me as a spurs fan.

Well to me a manager coming out and saying this, basically he doesn't have a job after Sunday. Then continues to say he is making plans for next season seems a little strange. It could make an perspective manager wonder exactly how were run. Brendan Rodgers has said this himself. IMO it doesn't seem very professional, has echos of Big Martin Jol all over it.
 

ultimateloner

Well-Known Member
Jan 25, 2004
4,539
2,149
I think TS is digging his own grave by thinking he is smarter than everyone else.

For me it seems like he believes he is gone by the end of season so he is making a case for himself for future appointments.

However he chooses to do it by saying he is affected by speculation for his position, injuries etc. And then he says he's 'done well' given these obstacles.

I'm hoping someone could actually come out and rate statistically whether it's true.

In any case there are alot of excuses and it feels like he doesnt' take responsibility. Same mould as Harry. TBH from a PR perspective alone i prefer AVB over him anyday. AVB might have been rigid and many other things but i've not seen quotes of him mouthing to the media about these so-called obstacles.
 

Donki

Has a "Massive Member" Member
May 14, 2007
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I think TS is digging his own grave by thinking he is smarter than everyone else.

For me it seems like he believes he is gone by the end of season so he is making a case for himself for future appointments.

However he chooses to do it by saying he is affected by speculation for his position, injuries etc. And then he says he's 'done well' given these obstacles.

I'm hoping someone could actually come out and rate statistically whether it's true.

In any case there are alot of excuses and it feels like he doesnt' take responsibility. Same mould as Harry. TBH from a PR perspective alone i prefer AVB over him anyday. AVB might have been rigid and many other things but i've not seen quotes of him mouthing to the media about these so-called obstacles.

No he blamed the fans :D
 

avonspurs

MoPo's lover
Apr 28, 2006
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Well to me a manager coming out and saying this, basically he doesn't have a job after Sunday. Then continues to say he is making plans for next season seems a little strange. It could make an perspective manager wonder exactly how were run. Brendan Rodgers has said this himself. IMO it doesn't seem very professional, has echos of Big Martin Jol all over it.

of course he hasn't got a job past Sunday, thank f**k. But all the quotes are coming from him, no-one else. TS says theyre talking at end of season; TS saying he's out of job. It embarrasses me to the extent that he is our manager, but the club itself, doesn't embarrass me
 

rupsmith

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2006
1,714
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You do know Spurs play in White, right? We play slow, turgid, long ball football under Tim. Under AVB it was too slow at the end but the opposition never had the ball, Tim would have won the fans over if he stuck to AVB's blue print but upped the tempo. He would have even had reason for some of the swagger and we could have forgiven some of the lies.

I'm surprised you didn't know Spurs play in white because you do seem to be very observant when you mention that this isn't Football Manager, you're right it isn't. it's just a shame that Tim hasn't realised it.
He seems not to have noticed that he has to manage people and that can treat seasoned pro's like some under 18's desperate for a contract.

The sooner you realise that what you think is passion and forthrightness is little more than crass, brainless bravado the better.

Its clear that you haven't played much of the game before - I mean on a football field and not on your PC.

AVB had a rotation philosophy - the objective of the philosophy is keep possession of the ball, to rotate the ball across the field from left to right - (Dembele, Chadli, Paulinho, Lennon, Walker, Rose) and as the opposition re-adjusts, your creative players (Eriksen, Siggy, Lamela) thread the ball through to razor sharp finishers (Soldado) who can finish with one touch. If the ball is lost then your defensive midfielders (Sandro, Etienne) snap in to recover it and the rotation commences again.

It is brilliant to aspire to and only two teams in the world play it successfully - Barcelona as a general philosophy and Bayern Munich. The downside of the philosophy firstly is that it has not been played successfully in the UK before. Secondly, the players who can perform those roles are some of the best players in the world - Xavi, Iniesta, Busquests and Messi. Even Fabregas hasnt fully adjusted to it.

It obviously looks brilliant on a fcking presentation in a corporate board room as well because AVB convinced both Chelsea and Dan Levy that he was the man to give money to buy the players to perform those roles.

Levy realised AVB was a smooth talking mistake and hired Tim because he had a lot of respect for him and wanted to get the next decision right - so needed a decent caretaker

Tim quickly realised that the rotation philosophy could not be incorporated without the right ingredients and time. It required exceptional players to ensure that a plan B was not required. We did not have that, and therefore he did what any decent manager would do. He looked at what was available at his disposal and decided on the following:
- Established a possession based 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 system with more natural width because we have athletic players who can keep the ball and players who can attack aerially and on the ground.
- Get our wingers and full backs into play as they have pace, natural attacking intent and provide an outlet for the middle.
- Give the creative players the ball ASAP (Benteleb performed this role very very well indeed) - Sandro, Dembele, Paulinho and Capoue (the 'much the muchness') did not. Chadli is not bad but he is better in creative attacking roles. We need this "Modric" role filled ASAP to up our tempo - there is no other way. We need players who can move the ball into attacking areas quickly - if we don't, our build up play is slow and somewhat uncoordinated- that is a vital missing ingredient as we have a lot of the other ingredients. People say Tom Carroll is someone who does it very well indeed.

With the change in philosophy (which AVB failed to implement over 1.5 years), Tim managed to get the team going and will hopefully get us to 6th spot.

In my view, Tim has done very well indeed and deserves our utmost respect. If we don't get a genuine genuine upgrade, I would much rather keep him than go in for some person who is unaware of the competitiveness of the premier league.
 
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Dr Know

SC Supporter
Aug 21, 2008
11,492
9,306
My views on TS is well documented on here but I have to say this is only making Spurs look bad for future appointments. If I was a coach/manager looking to get into there EPL, I think going by what I've seen so far I would give it a miss.
I can't blame TS for wanting the perfect job, I can't blame him for trying his hardest to keep that job. I guess in his own mind he's probably thinking we're not in a bad position in the league and maybe think those that don't want to be at the club can F off. Despite all his lack of (insert your word here) he really don't deserve this treatment from the club and neither do we the fans. He should have been appointed as a caretaker and if he didn't want that the off you go mate. He deserves to be told that he's gone (if he hasn't already) and the players should just wait patiently for that moment. I mean come on it's only a couple days!! what more can he do??
 

rupsmith

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2006
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2,328
I've read some tosh before but this takes the biscuit.

Plenty of people have posted coherent and reasoned arguments as to why they feel TS isn't the man to take spurs forward. However, you - and others like you - continue to start their counter-arguments with this whole media perception and how he comes across in interviews as being the SOLE reason people don't want him - indeed, your first post in this thread was about TS and his media image.

People have raised the following:
(1) lack of a discernible system
(2) lack of tactical awareness and the inability to tackle longstanding issues (such as our defensive frailty)
(3) public humiliation of players

And plenty more.

Kindly read my post on a lack of a "system" and "tactical awareness".

As for "the inability to tackle longstanding issues" what was he supposed to do when Kaboul and Verts and Daws and Chiriches were out due to injury and never able to get a decent partnership going ? Give birth to Rio Ferdinand?

Public humiliation of players? I fully can understand this point of view and can understand why you would not like his style. But he has never criticised individual players - even the Sandro one was not exactly a criticism of Sandro as a person, he just said that his form was not good enough. I have no issues him questioning the team's drive. After the Chelsea game, we have been a much much tougher team.
 

Black

Well-Known Member
May 21, 2007
4,807
4,872
:pompous:
Ajax inferior to Spurs, don't be silly! Do you think Tim's Spurs would defeat FdB's Ajax? Do you think Tim could win four titles on the spin in the Eredivisie?

What you don't get is that it is nothing to do with presentation, it is everything to do with substance.

I think we would beat Ajax, the Dutch league is like a training league before you depart to one of the bigger boys

Reckon our under 21 could beat theirs too :pompous:
 

gregga

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2005
2,281
1,312
Its clear that you haven't played much of the game before - I mean on a football field and not on your PC.

AVB had a rotation philosophy - the objective of the philosophy is keep possession of the ball, to rotate the ball across the field from left to right - (Dembele, Chadli, Paulinho, Lennon, Walker, Rose) and as the opposition re-adjusts, your creative players (Eriksen, Siggy, Lamela) thread the ball through to razor sharp finishers (Soldado) who can finish with one touch. If the ball is lost then your defensive midfielders (Sandro, Etienne) snap in to recover it and the rotation commences again.

It is brilliant to aspire to and only two teams in the world play it successfully - Barcelona as a general philosophy and Bayern Munich. The downside of the philosophy firstly is that it has not been played successfully in the UK before. Secondly, the players who can perform those roles are some of the best players in the world - Xavi, Iniesta, Busquests and Messi. Even Fabregas hasnt fully adjusted to it.

It obviously looks brilliant on a fcking presentation in a corporate board room as well because AVB convinced both Chelsea and Dan Levy that he was the man to give money to buy the players to perform those roles.

Levy realised AVB was a smooth talking mistake and hired Tim because he had a lot of respect for him and wanted to get the next decision right - so needed a decent caretaker

Tim quickly realised that the rotation philosophy could not be incorporated without the right ingredients and time. It required exceptional players to ensure that a plan B was not required. We did not have that, and therefore he did what any decent manager would do. He looked at what was available at his disposal and decided on the following:
- Established a possession based 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 system with more natural width because we have athletic players who can keep the ball and players who can attack aerially and on the ground.
- Get our wingers and full backs into play as they have pace, natural attacking intent and provide an outlet for the middle.
- Give the creative players the ball ASAP (Benteleb performed this role very very well indeed) - Sandro, Dembele, Paulinho and Capoue (the 'much the muchness') did not. Chadli is not bad but he is better in creative attacking roles. We need this "Modric" role filled ASAP to up our tempo - there is no other way. We need players who can move the ball into attacking areas quickly - if we don't, our build up play is slow and somewhat uncoordinated- that is a vital missing ingredient as we have a lot of the other ingredients. People say Tom Carroll is someone who does it very well indeed.

With the change in philosophy (which AVB failed to implement over 1.5 years), Tim managed to get the team going and will hopefully get us to 6th spot.

In my view, Tim has done very well indeed and deserves our utmost respect. If we don't get a genuine genuine upgrade, I would much rather keep him than go in for some person who is unaware of the competitiveness of the premier league.

I'm sorry but Tim's football philosophy clearly consists of: 'if you put more attacking players on the pitch than the other team you will score more goals than them and therefore win the game'.

There are no discernible tactics, and there is no structure to the team's build-up play. I know he's only had half a season to make an impression but we're regressing if anything. Almost all of our wins have come because first Ade, then Eriksen, single-handidly won us the game.

As a caretaker Tim needed to steady the ship more than anything else. Results have been good but performance-wise we are far from steady, and morale-wise it appears the ship is not just rocking but sinking.
 

absolute bobbins

Am Yisrael Chai
Feb 12, 2013
11,649
25,962
Its clear that you haven't played much of the game before - I mean on a football field and not on your PC.

AVB had a rotation philosophy - the objective of the philosophy is keep possession of the ball, to rotate the ball across the field from left to right - (Dembele, Chadli, Paulinho, Lennon, Walker, Rose) and as the opposition re-adjusts, your creative players (Eriksen, Siggy, Lamela) thread the ball through to razor sharp finishers (Soldado) who can finish with one touch. If the ball is lost then your defensive midfielders (Sandro, Etienne) snap in to recover it and the rotation commences again.

It is brilliant to aspire to and only two teams in the world play it successfully - Barcelona as a general philosophy and Bayern Munich. The downside of the philosophy firstly is that it has not been played successfully in the UK before. Secondly, the players who can perform those roles are some of the best players in the world - Xavi, Iniesta, Busquests and Messi. Even Fabregas hasnt fully adjusted to it.

It obviously looks brilliant on a fcking presentation in a corporate board room as well because AVB convinced both Chelsea and Dan Levy that he was the man to give money to buy the players to perform those roles.

Levy realised AVB was a smooth talking mistake and hired Tim because he had a lot of respect for him and wanted to get the next decision right - so needed a decent caretaker

Tim quickly realised that the rotation philosophy could not be incorporated without the right ingredients and time. It required exceptional players to ensure that a plan B was not required. We did not have that, and therefore he did what any decent manager would do. He looked at what was available at his disposal and decided on the following:
- Established a possession based 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 system with more natural width because we have athletic players who can keep the ball and players who can attack aerially and on the ground.
- Get our wingers and full backs into play as they have pace, natural attacking intent and provide an outlet for the middle.
- Give the creative players the ball ASAP (Benteleb performed this role very very well indeed) - Sandro, Dembele, Paulinho and Capoue (the 'much the muchness') did not. Chadli is not bad but he is better in creative attacking roles. We need this "Modric" role filled ASAP to up our tempo - there is no other way. We need players who can move the ball into attacking areas quickly - if we don't, our build up play is slow and somewhat uncoordinated- that is a vital missing ingredient as we have a lot of the other ingredients. People say Tom Carroll is someone who does it very well indeed.

With the change in philosophy (which AVB failed to implement over 1.5 years), Tim managed to get the team going and will hopefully get us to 6th spot.

In my view, Tim has done very well indeed and deserves our utmost respect. If we don't get a genuine genuine upgrade, I would much rather keep him than go in for some person who is unaware of the competitiveness of the premier league.

First of all it's a iPad and I must apologise to you Rup but I couldn't read that post after you used a Tim-ism.

It is however safe to say that judging from the first paragraph that I disagree with the lot and it probably amounts to little more than condescending twaddle.

I'll give you a funny rating but it's a sympathy one
 

rupsmith

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2006
1,714
2,328
There are no discernible tactics, and there is no structure to the team's build-up play. I know he's only had half a season to make an impression but we're regressing if anything. Almost all of our wins have come because first Ade, then Eriksen, single-handidly won us the game.

As a caretaker Tim needed to steady the ship more than anything else. Results have been good but performance-wise we are far from steady, and morale-wise it appears the ship is not just rocking but sinking.

I've just outlined what Tim's tactics are and why it can appear there is no structure to our play.

If the rumors about morale are true and dissatisfaction are true then it is likely his time is up but all I'm saying is that he deserves respect for what he has done and not the baseless hatred that is expressed by a lot of people.
 

absolute bobbins

Am Yisrael Chai
Feb 12, 2013
11,649
25,962
:pompous:

I think we would beat Ajax, the Dutch league is like a training league before you depart to one of the bigger boys

Reckon our under 21 could beat theirs too :pompous:
For the last time I said Tim's Spurs, I'm not doing a player to player comparison. He'd be out smarted by de Boer, like he was by Fat Sam with his inferior team
 

rupsmith

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2006
1,714
2,328
First of all it's a iPad and I must apologise to you Rup but I couldn't read that post after you used a Tim-ism.

It is however safe to say that judging from the first paragraph that I disagree with the lot and it probably amounts to little more than condescending twaddle.

I'll give you a funny rating but it's a sympathy one

Right then I'll talk in a language you can understand.

LOLOLOLOLOL. Doh!!! WTF?!?!?!?

Sherwood out!!

Does that make sense?

Btw - do they have FM on an IPad? Man, I'm really behind the curve. Ipad Air?
 

Gaz_Gammon

Well-Known Member
Apr 16, 2005
16,047
18,013
Ajax inferior to Spurs, don't be silly! Do you think Tim's Spurs would defeat FdB's Ajax? Do you think Tim could win four titles on the spin in the Eredivisie?

What you don't get is that it is nothing to do with presentation, it is everything to do with substance.

The manager of Rochdale could win The Eredivisie. Just when was the last time a CL final graced by any Dutch side?

FDB's first Championship winning side was very much put together by Jol. I am not suggesting that FDB is a busted flush but people really do need to put his achievements in perspective.

After all didn't AVB win a double and go undefeated during a season?
 
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Gaz_Gammon

Well-Known Member
Apr 16, 2005
16,047
18,013


More goals than AVB? He has got that - Yes, more goals at both ends. Less clean sheets and more high scoring thrashings. You win football matches not only by scoring goals but by not conceding.

.


You sure on this point?
 

CrazyHeart

Well-Known Member
Oct 26, 2013
3,702
4,288
My views on TS is well documented on here but I have to say this is only making Spurs look bad for future appointments. If I was a coach/manager looking to get into there EPL, I think going by what I've seen so far I would give it a miss.
I can't blame TS for wanting the perfect job, I can't blame him for trying his hardest to keep that job. I guess in his own mind he's probably thinking we're not in a bad position in the league and maybe think those that don't want to be at the club can F off. Despite all his lack of (insert your word here) he really don't deserve this treatment from the club and neither do we the fans. He should have been appointed as a caretaker and if he didn't want that the off you go mate. He deserves to be told that he's gone (if he hasn't already) and the players should just wait patiently for that moment. I mean come on it's only a couple days!! what more can he do??

Precisely.
 

absolute bobbins

Am Yisrael Chai
Feb 12, 2013
11,649
25,962
The manager of Rochdale could win The Eredivisie. Just when was the CL final graced by any Dutch side?

FDB's first Championship winning side was very much put together by Jol. I am not suggesting that FDB is a busted flush but people really do need to put his achievements in perspective.

After all didn't AVB win a double and go undefeated during a season?

I think the last time was 96 and it would have made Ajax the only side to retain the Champions League ever.

Didn't Jol leave by mutual consent with Ajax in fifth or sixth and didn't Ajax go through a long barren spell without winning the league before de Boer took over?
 

CrazyHeart

Well-Known Member
Oct 26, 2013
3,702
4,288
Gotta admit, to Tim's credit he does do the sympathy fishing pretty well and it was nice of him to admit that the players don't respect him. That being said, for him to come out and say that he's up there with Pellegrini and Mourinho with his cardboard win ratio, riding the wave of AVB's work initially was a little classless.
 

Donki

Has a "Massive Member" Member
May 14, 2007
14,451
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First of all it's a iPad and I must apologise to you Rup but I couldn't read that post after you used a Tim-ism.

It is however safe to say that judging from the first paragraph that I disagree with the lot and it probably amounts to little more than condescending twaddle.

I'll give you a funny rating but it's a sympathy one

Ahhh Bobbins, ever the diplomat, I was waiting for your response, well said sir! :pompous:
 
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