Should Juande Ramos be sacked?

[davidmatzdorf]

I think the DOF position should be scrapped, and if that means DC out then so be it.

Why does Levy think it's an important role for the club, because some foreign ones do it?...

No, the reason Levy thinks (or perhaps thought) it's an important role was because, until Arnesen arrived, every time a manager got sacked, the new manager wanted to replace half the squad and it was costing too much. Players were being brought in at higher fees than they were being sold.

So Levy decided (he said so in more than one interview) that a D of F being in charge of transfers and a Head Coach being in charge of the squad would give continuity. Any coach that arrived would be told that signing players was not his job and that he should get on with coaching.

That worked well, even through Santini's abrupt departure and Arnesen's tapping-up saga. But it broke down when Levy ran out of patience (for financial reasons, mainly) and demanded CL qualification immediately, leading to Comolli's proposal to replace Jol with Ramos.

Ramos arrived in mid-season and rapidly decided that a lot of the players were not his type of footballer. Because Comolli has hung his entire reputation at Spurs on the decision to replace Jol with Ramos, Ramos was in a position of power and Comolli duly went out to spend huge amounts of money renovating the defence last January and the midfield last Summer.

Comolli and Levy negotiated equally huge amounts of money from the sale of two strikers to pay for this. But so far it hasn't worked at all on the pitch. And now the "continuity" argument for a D of F is out the window, because the coach has demanded that half the squad be replaced anyway - and he has got his way.

So is there a point in having a D of F? Personally, I don't think the roles matter very much. I agree with Martin Jol: what's important is that the D of F chooses the coach and that they can work constructively together, as Arnesen worked with Jol. People tend to diss Frank Arnesen since he left, but despite the fact that many of his cheap, young players got sold, the fact is that the players he bought formed the nucleus of the squad that finished 5th twice.

 

[SpurSince57]

The worst thing that Tottenham could do now is sack Ramos. What would it acheive? Getting another manager in who would no doubt want to change the squad to his liking and would therefore have to wait until January to do that, and that probably would'nt give "another manager" enough time.

Yes many people may view the sacking of Jol a mistake but that is in the past and we cant look back. The biggest mistake we made is when we sold Keane to Liverpool. We all knew that Berbatov was going to leave, but i dont think anyone knew or was prepared for Keane leaving.

Yes it was good business for the club, selling a player who we bought for six million, got six years out of him and sold for £18m at the age of 28. So in a combined a decision to sell two players who scored fifty or so goals between them for the price of fifty million seems like good business. But the biggest mistake came when we simply did'nt replace them. Pavlychenko was bought two days before the end of the transfer window, which to me looks like a panic buy. Not the one of Ramos's choice, as we all know that Pavlychenko and Bent cant play together. Would a man of Ramos's knowledge and experience really want to pair these two together? Keane's transfer to Liverpool was purely a business decison and Levy is at fault for not thinking of the implications his business mind will have on the club, and Comolli is at fault for not getting decent enough placements in.

I for one am backing Ramos all the way, as I believe he is having to make the best of a shit situation which he did'nt have much control over. I pray that he is still here in January, and has more control over our transfers.

COYS

Sorry, but it was clear from mid-July that Pavlyuchenko and Arshavin were our number one targets to replace Berbatov and Keane, and were very much Ramos' preference. The reason we signed Pav so late is that Spartak were reluctant to let him go, and he himself was very iffy about leaving Russia and joining us. Given the timing of his appearance in London, it seems very possible Spartak wanted to hang on to him until after the second leg of their CL qualifier against Kiev.

No-one knows the full story behind the failure to sign Arshavin, so to say, 'Oh, Levy should just have shelled out an extra couple of million' is nonsense.

Do you know what was happening behind the scenes with Keane? No, you don't.

Do you and others seriously believe that Comolli and Levy decided off their own bat to dismantle the squad and buy in what amounts to a whole new one? They went out and signed players Ramos wanted. If he is having problems forming them into a team, they are of his own making.

 

[BillyWhizz]

No, the reason Levy thinks (or perhaps thought) it's an important role was because, until Arnesen arrived, every time a manager got sacked, the new manager wanted to replace half the squad and it was costing too much. Players were being brought in at higher fees than they were being sold.

So Levy decided (he said so in more than one interview) that a D of F being in charge of transfers and a Head Coach being in charge of the squad would give continuity. Any coach that arrived would be told that signing players was not his job and that he should get on with coaching.

That worked well, even through Santini's abrupt departure and Arnesen's tapping-up saga. But it broke down when Levy ran out of patience (for financial reasons, mainly) and demanded CL qualification immediately, leading to Comolli's proposal to replace Jol with Ramos.

Ramos arrived in mid-season and rapidly decided that a lot of the players were not his type of footballer. Because Comolli has hung his entire reputation at Spurs on the decision to replace Jol with Ramos, Ramos was in a position of power and Comolli duly went out to spend huge amounts of money renovating the defence last January and the midfield last Summer.

Comolli and Levy negotiated equally huge amounts of money from the sale of two strikers to pay for this. But so far it hasn't worked at all on the pitch. And now the "continuity" argument for a D of F is out the window, because the coach has demanded that half the squad be replaced anyway - and he has got his way.

So is there a point in having a D of F? Personally, I don't think the roles matter very much. I agree with Martin Jol: what's important is that the D of F chooses the coach and that they can work constructively together, as Arnesen worked with Jol. People tend to diss Frank Arnesen since he left, but despite the fact that many of his cheap, young players got sold, the fact is that the players he bought formed the nucleus of the squad that finished 5th twice.

But in those interviews Levy called it a continental approach that's where he got the idea from. What you say is all true but a D of F wasn't the only option, the teams around us (were around us) don't use one they've just employed a higher quality manager with a proven track record of transfers. And if he hadn't put the D of F position in place theres a good chance we'd have got one in O'Neil.

Looking back it's just hindsight though and I know it's easy to gripe after it's gone wrong but I've never been in favour of it and until now haven't felt depressed enough to moan about it.

 

[macspurs]

NO NO NO NO NO NO ....

We are in a bad position now, but as many have said - getting rid of Ramos would be utter madness. What the f would we do ? Get Pleat in to steady the ship ?
I still believe that it will happen for Ramos and the team. We have to be 100% behind the team though. Anything else is REALLY counter productive. There are enough b'stards out there ready to tear chunks out of our club without us lending a hand.

Ramos is still building a team. The whole berby/keane thing was very much out of his hands - both were tapped up basically - there was nothing he could do. And as for the last minute signings, the whole football world knew our situation, and played it to get the most money out of us for any signings we would make.

We do need some leadership on the pitch - which at this stage of the season means that one of our current players is going to have to stand up and be the man. Also, Ramos needs to work more on his English lessons - the sooner the better.

Ramos worked wonders at Seville. I believe he can do the same at Spurs. Whatever anyone says about Levy, he has run our club well. Berbs and Keane wanted to leave - simple as that. All he did was negotiate the best price we could possibly get.

Things need to improve - and soon, no doubt. We don't want to be too far adrift of safety, but to change now would be utter disaster.

 

[hotteamtn]

ramos = santini

 

[johnny two saints]

Sacking Ramos will just add to the turmoil and I saw signs of improvement in the Hull game. Yes he's been fiddling about but ironically the injury to Pav could force him to play 4-4-2 and keep the back 4 from Sunday which is a step in the right direction for me anyway.

Sacking Comolli now will just be to pander to fans' desire for retribution and won't change anything on the pitch or with the team. His "work" is now done until January when you'd hope even Levy has got the message by now! CB/DM/LW/CF: we all know the places that need attention.

Levy going may be the most likely if the willingness to sell is there and the proposed buyers flutter enough readies. However, like him or loathe him if he sold Spurs the new owners could change manager and then he would want to change it all round again and have his own views on January targets = almost certain relegation!

All in all, I see nothing happening this side of Christmas IF as I expect and hope things improve starting with 3 points at Stoke, 3 from Bolton and a decent showing against the goons.

 

[ravo]

Nice read, well done.

Only thing I would comment on is the fact that Commoli has to be severely reprimanded for his balls-up in the transfer window, as he has nothing to do with the players, so should have no affect on morale etc.

COYS

 

[doubledecker]

Roy Keane please

 

[THX2208]

Déjà vu

 

[rez9000]

Roy Keane please

Christ, how times have changed!

Or have they?

 

[JimmyG2]

I don't remember writing that!
Come on,12 years that's a lifetime for some young people.
He only lasted two weeks after my passionate defence,
a year to the day after Martin Jol was pushed out.

My take on Mourinho?.

''He grows worse. Question enrages him.
At once Good Night
Stand not upon the order of your going but go at once'' (MacBeth Act 3)

Thank you Lady Macbeth

JimmyG2 the blogger that's not always wrong.

 

[Geyzer Soze]

In think he needs a little more time ?

 

[freeeki]

No

 

[TheHoddleWaddle]

At least this necrothread doesn't burn my eyes as much as the Sherwood one....

 

[Styopa]

One of only two managers I can remember moving onto a more prestigious job following their sacking by Spurs.

Still, other than a relatively short spell managing RM it seems to have been pretty much downhill all the way for his career. Never won another trophy following the League cup with ourselves.

 

[Johnny J]

We should get him back for the City game, what have we got to lose.

 

[Amo]

We should get him back for the City game, what have we got to lose.

The City game.

 

[stov]

What's with all the visiting past glories? Sherwood now one day.

Santini next.

 

[Metalhead]

What's with all the visiting past glories? Sherwood now one day.

Santini next.

Just wait for the piece de resistance.

 

[C0YS]

The defence of Ramos here is often the same as Mourinho. Including the there’s no one better argument. Which, well, wasn’t true but I think it’s just people who recognise the form is bad but just don’t want to let go, so that’s the excuse.
A lot of similarities though between getting Ramos in and getting Mourinho in. Now obviously as a club we are on a totally different level now, but Ramos was meant to be that manager that pushed us on just that extra bit.

The thing is though is the idea of seeing manager (as well as players) as something you upgrade, and if you get the best manager with the best stars you win. It’s just not really how it works, humans are messy and inconsistent and in constant change there is so much that can lead to success and the person to do that is whoever is best suited to managing in the environment of this club, not who has the most medals.

Harry Redknapp only got the job because we were in a relegation dog fight. No one expected him to do what he did here, but in fairness,he wasn’t really ever given the chance, and maybe he was always well suited to it.

Similarly in the PL we always look abroad to poach managers who have succeeded because teams in other leagues give managers like Harry Redknapp, who do well in the lower half’s of the table, more of a chance.

The PLs approach to hiring managers is follow whatever’s shiny with no idea of how such figures fit into a broader plan or idea. Let’s just be open minded.