Slow starts

[Spurs 1961]

Wasn't it last season that we had our best start since 60/61? As @coys200 says in the opening post, it's usually around mid-October that we start a "poor" run.

I think we deliberately play within ourselves during the first half of the season and due to the fact that our players are so much better than most other teams', we usually rack up plenty of points while doing so. The problem is that around October/November when the games start coming thick and fast and one or two injuries crop up, some of that gulf in quality is negated. Hopefully after this summer we will have more quality throughout the squad which will enable us to keep players fresher and turn some of those Autumn draws into wins.

We did have a decent start but were not really playing that well and came a cropper. I agree that October/November is our low point.

the other thing I have thought I noticed is that Poch experiments at the start of a season with players and positions. He appears to me to use the early season to suss out dome of the ideas perhaps he has been working on the training ground with. Come December the team gives the appearance of being more settled in personnel and shape.

Now I don't think this is bad, that is to try new things and give players a chance to prove themselves, it's just that we lose too many points by December. Last season we finished with 19 wins, 2 draws, 2 defeats in the last 23 games. Right now we are on a run of 11 wins, 3 draws in the last 14. Back in 1966/7 we went unbeaten from New Years day onwards and of course won the FA Cup that year. I think we are on our longest run since then so maybe we can at least emulate that third place in the league and a cup win

 

[hellava_tough]

These are excellent tables for this discussion as they're colour-coded (Win, Draw or Loss):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015–16_Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C._season#Matches

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016–17_Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C._season#Matches

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017–18_Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C._season#Matches

 

[TottenhamMattSpur]

It's not as much of a pattern as you may think.
Last season we finished really strongly and it looks like we will again this.
We totally collapsed the season before last though and finished 3rd in a 2 horse race.
As some one alluded to, in previous seasons our title rivals weren't in Europe so had less to deal with before Christmas. Our form has generally been better when we're on the break or out.

This season City have just bought every one and the league has collectively shat themselves almost every match against them conceding the game before a ball is kicked.

 

[RichieS]

It's not as much of a pattern as you may think.
Last season we finished really strongly and it looks like we will again this.
We totally collapsed the season before last though and finished 3rd in a 2 horse race.
As some one alluded to, in previous seasons our title rivals weren't in Europe so had less to deal with before Christmas. Our form has generally been better when we're on the break or out.

This season City have just bought every one and the league has collectively shat themselves almost every match against them conceding the game before a ball is kicked.

"Totally collapsed", my arse. As has become the norm under Poche we were better in the second half of the season than the first (although admittedly not by as much as last season or, it seems, this).

 

[TottenhamLegend]

2018 table below. Actually think it’s even better 1 more win. What do we think the reason is for the kick on in new year ? Last minute transfers ? Poch training regime ? Whatever it is there is definitely a consistent pattern now and can’t be a coincidence. Infact if I’m correct it’s not always start of season but around Oct/nov time.Next season again won’t be helped by World Cup and new stadium, but at least transfer window will close early. View attachment 37320

Chelsea

 

[Mate]

It's not as much of a pattern as you may think.
Last season we finished really strongly and it looks like we will again this.
We totally collapsed the season before last though and finished 3rd in a 2 horse race.
As some one alluded to, in previous seasons our title rivals weren't in Europe so had less to deal with before Christmas. Our form has generally been better when we're on the break or out.

This season City have just bought every one and the league has collectively shat themselves almost every match against them conceding the game before a ball is kicked.

I wouldn't call the season before a "collapse". I believe that those last few results were more of an issue mentally rather than physically.

We rectified that the following year after Chelsea had won the title.

 

[TottenhamMattSpur]

"Totally collapsed", my arse. As has become the norm under Poche we were better in the second half of the season than the first (although admittedly not by as much as last season or, it seems, this).

I wouldn't call the season before a "collapse". I believe that those last few results were more of an issue mentally rather than physically.

We rectified that the following year after Chelsea had won the title.

From match day 17 - (19th Decembe)r to Match day 34 (18th April) we won 13, drew 3 and lost 2. I make that 2.33 points per game average over 18 matches.
In the last 4 we drew 2 and lost 2 including losing at home to Southampton and being demolished by Newcastle - who had 10 men. 0.5 points per game. It was the least points we took all season, the closest being the 3 from 12 in the opening 4 games.

It doesn't matter why we collapsed - we collapsed. We had 2nd in the bag, it would have been the first time above Arsenal for decades and we imploded.

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

Better defending.

 

[Khilari]

Playing at Wembley was probably a significant factor.

 

[spursgirls]

i think that's right, in the first half of the season - Aug-Dec - most of the teams are on a level playing field fitness-wise. But after Xmas our superior conditioning kicks in, and other teams become jaded, and we run over the dross with greater ease.

Also we just seem to get a some bastard injuries each November.

I really hope we keep it up at the new stadium. The bigger pitch at Wembley seems to have made us fitter than ever, (with that advantage over other teams) so that's the level to maintain IMHO.

 

[WiganSpur]

I think we've been unlucky in the past two November/Decembers in that we've had a lengthy run of high intensity fixtures in the CL, PL and possibly League Cup that have coincided with injuries.

Last season it was Kane, Lamela and Toby, this season it's been Rose, Lamela, Toby, Wanyama as well as Winks and Dembele for periods.

With a bit more luck next season shouldn't be a problem. Lamela is back, and we've signed Moura too. Hopefully with a couple of the other right additions we will minimise the impact to results in this period in future. Squad depth is crucial in cases of injuries, form and fatigue and since January we've got players back and improved considerably in that regard.

 

[WiganSpur]

Playing at Wembley was probably a significant factor.

I think that was just an isolated incident in Aug/Sep, it may happen next season too though unfortunately.

The main worry for me is the late autumn slumps we've had the last couple of years.

 

[Bobbins]

How will the Word Cup effect us? Will we likely start slower due to the shorter pre-season? Will we be less likely to slump in the October/November period as we’re in a different cycle?

 

['O Zio]

One factor is our fitness is better. As the season goes on it makes more and more of a difference

This is it for me. The further into the season you get the more fatigued the players are and so our Poch-level fitness makes more of a difference against tired opposition.

 

[zicomerc]

Next season won't be any better either as Son will be away for first month with the Asian Games in his bid to win Gold to avoid national service. We'll probably play our first 5 games away from our new home, so Harry better start scoring in August.

 

[ljinko888]

The Chelsea game at Wembley - we were all over them, they were making last ditch tackles and flying bodies almost the whole second half, we hit the post twice and when we finally scored, it wasn't even our own player. The Burnley game - a lot of huff and puff only to score one goal. The performances weren't poor but I certainly agree to the idea that the pre-season fitness regime saps a lot out of them initially.

 

[Lighty64]

I think we've been unlucky in the past two November/Decembers in that we've had a lengthy run of high intensity fixtures in the CL, PL and possibly League Cup that have coincided with injuries.

Last season it was Kane, Lamela and Toby, this season it's been Rose, Lamela, Toby, Wanyama as well as Winks and Dembele for periods.

With a bit more luck next season shouldn't be a problem. Lamela is back, and we've signed Moura too. Hopefully with a couple of the other right additions we will minimise the impact to results in this period in future. Squad depth is crucial in cases of injuries, form and fatigue and since January we've got players back and improved considerably in that regard.

also take into account we have a good few internationals, and end of October-November usually crucial qualifying international matches.

we have also had 2 seasons that had a very tough set of fixtures. London clubs play more local derbies than any other area, and derbies take that little extra to play in especially against these teams

2015/16
12 November 2015 - Arsenal (a) - Res - 1–1
22 November 2015 - West Ham United (h) - Res - W 4-1
29 November 2015 - Chelsea (h) - Res - 0-0

2016/17
6 November 2016 - Arsenal (a) - Res - 1–1
19 November 2016 - West Ham United (h) - Res - W 3–2
26 November 2016 - Chelsea (a) - Res - L 1-2

 

[coys200]

How will the Word Cup effect us? Will we likely start slower due to the shorter pre-season? Will we be less likely to slump in the October/November period as we’re in a different cycle?

If say England and Belgium got to semis which looking at draw isn’t impossible that’s 10/11 July. PL season Starts 11th August. I think players have to have 3 weeks off. Then 3 weeks pre season so they’d likely miss 2 matches. That Son news is a bit of a blow. So he has to go from World Cup to Asian games ?

 

[ERO]

These are excellent tables for this discussion as they're colour-coded (Win, Draw or Loss):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015–16_Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C._season#Matches

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016–17_Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C._season#Matches

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017–18_Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C._season#Matches

That's sooo green.