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So close to being Top tier European Club

coys200

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2017
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Was just thinking we are literally a Levy phone call away from being up their with the very elite in Europe. The call would be “yes I will sell”. And then wo could sit right with the PSG City Madrid Barcelona. I doubt any club in Europe will have a better infrastructure than us added to being in London. Ok some may have slightly bigger stadium, but imo 62k considering the quality will be enough to be considered elite. I mean what are City about 53k I think. So there it is training facility, lodge,Stadium,manager and 80% of squad.

For me there’s probably about 5 or 6 I’d ship out tomorrow and replace with top quality that I feel would make us very serious CL contenders. I don’t even think it would cost that much. Also a new loaded owner would have plenty of FFP wriggle room. This is what I would do some might sound harsh.

Out: Aurier Davies(which x2 full backs is very debatable) wanyama dembele llorente Nkoudou. If done in January and throw maybe a janssen and Onomah I reckon we could get £100m for that.( obviously this is all fantasy but just trying to demonstrate how little it may cost)

In: x2 FB 100m DM 50m CM 70m AM 70m ST 30m.

So Net would be £200m which to a City type owner is chicken feed. We must seem a hugely attractive proposition to the right buyer. In fact it makes you wonder that if Levy sat down and did these numbers he must realise how close we are. You’d think if he can find £1bn for a stadium he could rustle up another £200m. Anyway the point of all this was just to show how very close we are to being a top 5 European club. Just to say don’t want to make this a player specific transfer thread as obviously the transfer forum is open, more interesting if people think I’m deluded ? or we really are that close and even with a new mega money owner we’d be considered as elite.
 

coys200

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2017
8,436
17,403
The laughing emoji exactly demonstrate my point. You or other people can’t take seriously how close we actually are and will always perceive us as little old Tottenham. You can say oh well any club could do a city but not as well as we could currently do it. Plus other Clubs have hurdles. Chelsea need a new stadium, Arsenal are about to go into massive debt with kroenke, United is a mess from top to bottom and need massive stadium work as well, Everton need the stadium.
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
33,987
81,919
The laughing emoji exactly demonstrate my point. You or other people can’t take seriously how close we actually are and will always perceive us as little old Tottenham. You can say oh well any club could do a city but not as well as we could currently do it. Plus other Clubs have hurdles. Chelsea need a new stadium, Arsenal are about to go into massive debt with kroenke, United is a mess from top to bottom and need massive stadium work as well, Everton need the stadium.

But if Utd sell 6 players and use their infrastructure to fund buying half a new team they could be kings of Europe.

It is funny that anyone thinks it is that easy.
 

coys200

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2017
8,436
17,403
But if Utd sell 6 players and use their infrastructure to fund buying half a new team they could be kings of Europe.

It is funny that anyone thinks it is that easy.

But that’s exactly my point there’s clearly deeper issues at United as they’ve already tried that. For us it’s the odd tweak, well a £200m tweak. Unless you think players like Kane eriksen dele etc aren’t good enough or Pochettino isn’t. It’s very doubtful if Mourinho is the man he was and that was my point that we are so close while others need major work. The only ones as close as us I’d say are Liverpool but I think in 15-20 years they will regret not building a new stadium.
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
33,987
81,919
But that’s exactly my point there’s clearly deeper issues at United as they’ve already tried that. For us it’s the odd tweak, well a £200m tweak. Unless you think players like Kane eriksen dele etc aren’t good enough or Pochettino isn’t. It’s very doubtful if Mourinho is the man he was and that was my point that we are so close while others need major work. The only ones as close as us I’d say are Liverpool but I think in 15-20 years they will regret not building a new stadium.

But is there an argument that if Levy sold the club and we bought ready made high quality players then we wouldn’t have bought and developed the likes of Alli, Eriksen etc?

We have a system that is creating a great team and now we want to do the opposite of this and spend £200m to win the league?
 

vegassd

The ghost of Johnny Cash
Aug 5, 2006
3,356
3,330
Out: Aurier Davies(which x2 full backs is very debatable) wanyama dembele llorente Nkoudou. If done in January and throw maybe a janssen and Onomah I reckon we could get £100m for that.( obviously this is all fantasy but just trying to demonstrate how little it may cost)

That sums it up mate.

We can all play fantasy manager and come up with a list of players out, players in and put cash values on them to demonstrate how "easy" or "close" it all is. But real life just isn't that simple. I don't mean to sound condescending or anything, but I think there are centuries of footballing proof that what you suggest is not realistic.

As an aside, I think it's very hard to quantify what a "top 5 European club" actually is. The easiest way would be to look at domestic and European trophy hauls in the past 5-10 years or something, so in that regard we need at least 10 years of winning stuff to ever be considered.

And I also don't think we need to sell out to a sugar daddy in order to achieve what we are all after - a team that wins things at home and in Europe. In my opinion Levy has shown that he is willing to adjust his MO when it comes to transfers in respect to what Poch wants. I know lots of people don't think Levy can take us forward but I honestly can't think of anybody better to do it.
 

Frozen_Waffles

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2005
3,760
9,505
For me it's not about signing 100m players and just throwing them in the team.

It's about having a team of fighters and people who improve, a team mixed of young players and players with a desire to play.

Your post is childish and even if we suddenly had hundreds of millions, who would come to us?

There is not that many players that would improve us dramatically. I'd much rather see Kwp, Skipp, onomah, Edwards roles, parrot etc be given a chance at some point in the future.

Or perhaps some more young talent like sessegnon or grealish.
 

ItsBoris

Well-Known Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,467
8,604
But is there an argument that if Levy sold the club and we bought ready made high quality players then we wouldn’t have bought and developed the likes of Alli, Eriksen etc?

We have a system that is creating a great team and now we want to do the opposite of this and spend £200m to win the league?

Although I think the op is a bit pie in the sky, I want to address this post.

We have a system that is creating a very good team, not a great team. The problem with our approach is that we have very few players with experience winning league titles or cup competitions. Man United teams that always competed for the title and won trophies consistently usually had quite a few players that they developed, but they also had unbelievably strong-willed players with the fiercest desire to win. I feel like that's more what we're missing to be a great team. To get a player with that kind of personality might require spending some money (or it might not), but you can't assume that our approach, as good as it is, will ever get us to a league or champions league title because it ignores an essential quality of a title-winning team.
 

danielneeds

Kick-Ass
May 5, 2004
24,179
48,764
It would cost a billion just to buy us. Chelsea, City and PSG were bought for peanuts so the owners could plough millions into the football side.

Anyone who spends a billion to buy us will see it as a long term investment, probably leveraged with loans like the Glaziers did. Don’t expect hundreds of millions on players if it comes to pass.
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
33,987
81,919
Although I think the op is a bit pie in the sky, I want to address this post.

We have a system that is creating a very good team, not a great team. The problem with our approach is that we have very few players with experience winning league titles or cup competitions. Man United teams that always competed for the title and won trophies consistently usually had quite a few players that they developed, but they also had unbelievably strong-willed players with the fiercest desire to win. I feel like that's more what we're missing to be a great team. To get a player with that kind of personality might require spending some money (or it might not), but you can't assume that our approach, as good as it is, will ever get us to a league or champions league title because it ignores an essential quality of a title-winning team.

Alderweireld has won the league in two countries. VertongHen in one and we have a World Cup winner.
 

coys200

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2017
8,436
17,403
It would cost a billion just to buy us. Chelsea, City and PSG were bought for peanuts so the owners could plough millions into the football side.

Anyone who spends a billion to buy us will see it as a long term investment, probably leveraged with loans like the Glaziers did. Don’t expect hundreds of millions on players if it comes to pass.

But that’s the whole point it’s only £200m which in terms of others spend is nothing. The whole buying cheap players and them coming good is all very noble but what have we won ? Who are the most successful English clubs in the last 10-15 years the ones that have spent the most (bar Leicester) if people think we will become a European super power buy picking up players like Grealish they are deluded. We’ve done incredibly well to get this far, but no club has dominated England let alone Europe without massive spending.
 

ItsBoris

Well-Known Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,467
8,604
Alderweireld has won the league in two countries. VertongHen in one and we have a World Cup winner.

lol doesn't this just prove my point? Ok first of all, Toby only ever played 12 games from A. Madrid, I wouldn't call that being involved in a title challenge. So we have 2 players who have won the Dutch league playing for Ajax. That obviously does not qualify for the point that I'm making.

Lloris has won the world cup, yes, but even so he doesn't strike me as a strong-willed leader.
 

abibgdon yid

Member
Aug 9, 2008
39
47
Also its not as simple as spending £200m on transfers. We have no trophy pedigree so top players would see us as a risk in their career and therefore to attract them to us over other clubs who regularly win leagues or progress to the latter rounds of the CL means we would have to pay ridiculous wages for the players we would want. That in itself would add £150-£300 million to your figure. Then you have the problem of having paid those wages to new players, our current stars will expect parity and so probably adds another £100million. Bringing in a lot of stars in one go would also disrupt the team dynamic and lose us some of what is helping us to massively punch above our weight given the financial disparity between us and the top clubs. I definitely feel we need to invest but drip feeding high profile and potential talent over the next few years is a more sustainable way to go whilst we still have Poch. If he ever leaves then throw money at the problem as will be tough enough to keep our current stars anyway ??
 

coys200

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2017
8,436
17,403
That sums it up mate.

We can all play fantasy manager and come up with a list of players out, players in and put cash values on them to demonstrate how "easy" or "close" it all is. But real life just isn't that simple. I don't mean to sound condescending or anything, but I think there are centuries of footballing proof that what you suggest is not realistic.

As an aside, I think it's very hard to quantify what a "top 5 European club" actually is. The easiest way would be to look at domestic and European trophy hauls in the past 5-10 years or something, so in that regard we need at least 10 years of winning stuff to ever be considered.

And I also don't think we need to sell out to a sugar daddy in order to achieve what we are all after - a team that wins things at home and in Europe. In my opinion Levy has shown that he is willing to adjust his MO when it comes to transfers in respect to what Poch wants. I know lots of people don't think Levy can take us forward but I honestly can't think of anybody better to do it.

But it can be that simple if you know what you are doing. Pep identified exactly what he needed went out and bought it and City got 100 points.
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
33,987
81,919
lol doesn't this just prove my point? Ok first of all, Toby only ever played 12 games from A. Madrid, I wouldn't call that being involved in a title challenge. So we have 2 players who have won the Dutch league playing for Ajax. That obviously does not qualify for the point that I'm making.

Lloris has won the world cup, yes, but even so he doesn't strike me as a strong-willed leader.

Got any stats for how many Utd players had league titles before the first time they won it? How many City players?

They won through having a high quality squad. Something we can build and are doing.

If we bought three high quality players now and all performed to a high level straight away I think we would challenge for the title regardless of how many league titles they had previously won.
 

carmeldevil

Well-Known Member
May 15, 2018
7,588
45,111
But it can be that simple if you know what you are doing. Pep identified exactly what he needed went out and bought it and City got 100 points.

Pep had oil money to spend. You see how much they have spent in the past few transfers total? Something like almost £500 million during his tenure. (edited from billion but the oil sheikhs would spend that much as well! ;) )

If Tottenham were to join that elite, that's what it'll take - big money. Where is it?
 

coys200

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2017
8,436
17,403
Also its not as simple as spending £200m on transfers. We have no trophy pedigree so top players would see us as a risk in their career and therefore to attract them to us over other clubs who regularly win leagues or progress to the latter rounds of the CL means we would have to pay ridiculous wages for the players we would want. That in itself would add £150-£300 million to your figure. Then you have the problem of having paid those wages to new players, our current stars will expect parity and so probably adds another £100million. Bringing in a lot of stars in one go would also disrupt the team dynamic and lose us some of what is helping us to massively punch above our weight given the financial disparity between us and the top clubs. I definitely feel we need to invest but drip feeding high profile and potential talent over the next few years is a more sustainable way to go whilst we still have Poch. If he ever leaves then throw money at the problem as will be tough enough to keep our current stars anyway ??

I appreciate what you’re saying. But I’m talking about a scenario where we have been taken over by a very wealthy owner. You have 80% of the squad there and at peak age. If you drip feed players in by the time you do it kane and eriksen will be past their best. To me it’s clearly obvious what we would need so why would you faff about. The point is it’s doable it’s not like we’d have to spend £500m on a 75% new team.
 

coys200

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2017
8,436
17,403
Pep had oil money to spend. You see how much they have spent in the past few transfers total? Something like almost £500 million during his tenure. (edited from billion but the oil sheikhs would spend that much as well! ;) )

If Tottenham were to join that elite, that's what it'll take - big money. Where is it?

Did you read the OP. That was my point which I think many have missed. In comparison to say United Arsenal even Chelsea as a whole entity we are very close. Even after Chelsea winning PL and CL I’m not sure they were ever viewed as a top top European club it all felt a bit fake. City for me feels more real and you can see them having a Dynasty. But I honestly think people are underestimating how much the stadium will change peoples perception of us. For me if we got the mega rich owner it would feel much more like City for us than Chelsea.
 

leffe186

Well-Known Member
Sep 2, 2004
5,323
1,695
But that’s the whole point it’s only £200m which in terms of others spend is nothing. The whole buying cheap players and them coming good is all very noble but what have we won ? Who are the most successful English clubs in the last 10-15 years the ones that have spent the most (bar Leicester) if people think we will become a European super power buy picking up players like Grealish they are deluded. We’ve done incredibly well to get this far, but no club has dominated England let alone Europe without massive spending.

200M is not entirely coincidentally the amount AC Milan spent after pressing the "sell" button. How did that go for them?

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/46568234

There is a cartel of clubs that have acquired and maintained a place at the high table by subterfuge, vast sums of money, and - somewhat ironically - FFP. It's telling that we were not included as a "privileged" club in the latest manifestation of the European Super League. You are deluding yourself if you think we would immediately stand alongside Real and Barca. As for whether we stand alongside City and PSG, well I guess opinion is divided, but I know mine.

I'll see what happens with the new stadium, thanks all the same. To me it is crucial that we have a significant hardcore of...er...hardcore fans who can afford to go, stay together, and create the sort of atmosphere that City, PSG, and frankly Arsenal would die for. I want to be able to buy the best, or at least better than we have, but I don't think we're far away from that anyway, sale or no sale.
 
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