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Some thoughts on cheating and how to stop it

spud

Well-Known Member
Sep 2, 2003
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Once again this weekend, as every weekend, we have seen cheating by players. The incident that affected us was, of course, the sending off of Wilson Palacios. We saw David Dunn hurling himself to the ground even though he had not been touched by Palacios, thus getting Palacios a second booking and a sending off. Not only did this affect the outcome of the game but, as it was a second yellow card, it cannot be appealed.

I hate cheating. I also hate the general reaction to it in the football world. From the description of it by the authorities (‘simulation’ is far too euphemistic) to the platitudes offered by commentators. We are told that somebody ‘went down easily’ or that he ‘won’ a free kick. Both descriptions give the act of diving legitimacy, when really it merits condemnation.

We also hear dramatic tumbles to earth excused on the grounds that ‘there was contact’. ‘He may have gone down a bit easily’ they say, but ‘there was contact’. So what? Show me any tackle in the history of the game and I’m willing to bet that there was some kind of physical contact between the combatants. Contact doesn’t signify a foul. Contact is an almost inevitable consequence of competing to win possession.

This is also the excuse for a player who, instead of continuing to run, leaves a trailing leg in order to realise the ‘contact’ that results in a free kick. Instead of the ref giving him a yellow card and the world calling him the cheating bastard that he is, the football pundits sympathise with him, even though the only reason for his progress being so rudely interrupted was his own deceitful actions.

I don’t know why these excuses are made. It could be that a commentator does not wish to risk incurring the displeasure of players and managers, thereby endangering his access to his professional life’s blood. It could be that friendships would be put at risk by honest assessment. It could just be that commentators are either too stupid or too frightened (or both) to call a cheat a cheat.

But it doesn’t have to be this way.

There is a simple procedure which, if put in place, would make cheating obsolete within a matter of a few weeks. The technology is there, the rules are there. Only the will to do it appears to be missing.

The answer is simple. Review every game for ‘simulation’. Identify every instance of it in every game. Then, retrospectively, award each ‘simulation’ with the correct punishment according to the laws of the game: a yellow card. If a player is dishonest enough to ‘simulate’ more than once, he gets more than one yellow card. If he gets two, it doesn’t translate to a red; it is just two yellows. Three dives, three yellows etc.

So if a player (let’s call him Christiano Ronaldo) dives three times in a game, he gets three yellow cards. If he does it again the next game, he gets three more. This means that after playing two games, he gets a one match ban for accumulating five yellow cards, and is well on his way to his next ban. Now Mr. Ronaldo may not be able to correct the habits of a lifetime overnight, but he would probably receive all kinds of encouragement from his manager, who would doubtless prefer him to be available for selection for every game rather than serving bans for diving for one third of them.

This will never happen of course. If it was proposed as a rule change there would be all manner of reasons put forward against it by vested interests in the game. It would be too cumbersome a system, they would say, which would take too long to review. It would lead to separate criteria for the professional and amateur games, they would say, which would contradict the spirit of the game. The judgements would be subjective, they would say, leading to injustice. It would in itself be unjust, they would say, to impose retrospective punishment.

All of these arguments, and others, are of course bogus. An explicit rule change with clear and obvious criteria to identify dives would mean that players would know what they could not do. As with Mr. Dunn last week, the variety of camera angles usually leave no doubt, but the decision when the footage was contentious could err on the side of the diver.

As I said, there is nothing to stop this from being adopted, except for the will to do so. I guarantee you that if it were implemented at the start of next season then diving would be a thing of the past by Christmas.

Now wouldn’t that be a fantastic Christmas present.
 

miles_64

If Carlsberg did Members
Sep 10, 2004
1,697
1,069
It wouldn't necessarily take too long to review - clubs (like in rugby) should have to cite opposing players.
 

DHMadboy

Active Member
May 9, 2005
208
46
in american football they review every game to see how many mistakes the refs are making, and they can lose the license/right to ref games, they put a lot more effort into assisting the refs and training them to be good. so theres no excuse to not reviewing every game.

and as you say if they implemented next season, it would be gone by christmas due to managers fining players that did it, this would then make games easier to referee, and the refs wouldn't be made to look like fools by divers week in week out
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2003
9,186
11,148
Give it another five years and football will become a non contact sport. I'm only in my mid 30's but when I played if ever I was tackled and went down I never stayed down as I didn't want my opposite number to know I was hurt! As for they feigning injury/rolling around on the floor like they have been shot by Tom Berringer it's an absolute disgrace but it's something that I'm afraid is in our game to stay.
Christ, they've don't even call it cheating now, it's called "simulation"...pathetic.
 

JimmyG2

SC Supporter
Dec 7, 2006
15,014
20,779
I think the game has improved a lot since the cleaning up of 'dangerous'tackles. There is more time and space for skilful footballers to thrive . Some protection was needed though arguably things have gone too far as in the case of 'simulation'.
A lot of the problems could be cleared up quickly.
Disrespect to the referee is easily dealt with as in rugby. After match review of decisions is a good idea. It would help referees in the sense that a wrong decision could be rectified though as in the case of Palacios it doesn't affect the result.
Referees need support because pundits can view and review in slow motion each incident, a luxury not afforded to the real time referee.
I prefer the modern game, thank god the era of cloggers, hackers, choppers has long gone. Encouraging Palacios to be our hatchet man,hes got 12 yellows and now a red this season, is to emphasise the wrong aspects of the game. Essien and Ballack are tough players but also have a positive and creative side and we need to encourage this in Palacios.
 

Sauniere

Grand Master of the Knights of the Fat Fanny
Oct 28, 2004
3,903
690
I had a similar suggestion in a thread several months ago. I suggested then that each game is reviewed by a panel of people who are specifically looking at these incidents. They take a look from all possible TV angles and make a decision that the player has cheated in some way either by diving or mocking an injury e.g. bloke gets arm across midriff and goes down clutching his face. Once these incidents have been identified the offending player is invited in to view the footage. The player is shown every angle and then asked to explain what happened.

If the panel believe the player's explanation (e.g. I was running so fast I lost my balance and for a few strides I was able to keep my feet but in the end I was going too fast for my legs and sprawled on the ground) then he is allowed to leave without penalty. If however his explanation is not sufficient/believed then he is given an immediate 1 match ban. The findings for each incident are published in the media.

This method means that although the player may have gotten away with it during the match he still risks being caught by the review panel.

The only downside to this (IMO) is that the lower league games that don't get televised will still be at the mercy of the cheats. I do feel it is more prevalent in the top leagues though and once it is seen that cheating will not be tolerated this will filter down through the whole of football.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2003
9,186
11,148
I think we need to be looking at Cricket and how they utilise the third umpire. Football currently has a fourth official who's only role is to let everyone know how much injury time has been added onto each half. Ref's have microphones to linesmen and the fourth official, all it would take would be for a referral from an official to the fourth offical which he could then view.
It might slow the game down and take away from us our debating points but if the players can't be trusted then the ruling body needs to take action!
 

mawspurs

Staff
Jun 29, 2003
35,066
17,740
I think the game should be being analysed as it takes place. The officials are all wearing microphones and earpieces so are in constant communication. All issues that ref doesn't see can be reported to him and controversial incidents would only require a short pause which would generally have taken place anyway.

Lets eradicate the cheating from our beautiful game.
 

royt

New Member
Dec 6, 2006
11
13
I agree with the fourth official being used. In fact if the referee automatically "played on" but said to the fourth official "PLease check", there would be no pause to the game except to award a foul. There would have to be a time limit eg 30 seconds but the game would continue to flow.
 

SouthLondonSpur

SC Supporter
May 28, 2004
1,676
1
I like the idea, but i agree it wont happen. The power that be at the clubs will trawl through the fine print and come up with a hundred reasons why Messrs Ronaldo & Co couldnt possibly be fined post game.
 

Rumbaldo

Well-Known Member
Jan 1, 2005
1,051
107
Just for the record Palacios did touch Dunn.
It was a stupid lunge that he pulled out of but ultimately its effects were still felt by Dunn he saw that tackle coming and jumped to try and avoid it. the second yellow was harsh but it didnt come because Dunn was cheating.
 

spud

Well-Known Member
Sep 2, 2003
5,850
8,794
Just for the record Palacios did touch Dunn.
It was a stupid lunge that he pulled out of but ultimately its effects were still felt by Dunn he saw that tackle coming and jumped to try and avoid it. the second yellow was harsh but it didnt come because Dunn was cheating.

I don't mean to be disrespectful, but that is complete bollocks.

I didn't see a jump; I saw a Drogba-esque post-assassination tumble. He fooled the ref completely and was happy to do it. Cheating. No more, no less. And I refer you to my point about 'contact' and invite you to read up on what constitutes a foul.
 

JimmyG2

SC Supporter
Dec 7, 2006
15,014
20,779
Just for the record Palacios did touch Dunn.
It was a stupid lunge that he pulled out of but ultimately its effects were still felt by Dunn he saw that tackle coming and jumped to try and avoid it. the second yellow was harsh but it didnt come because Dunn was cheating.
I agree with you. In fact it was Palacios who fooled the ref by pulling out at the last moment. I'm pretty sure there was some contact and if I saw Palacios steaming in my direction I would take evasive action.
Doesn't alter Spud's basic points and solutions.
The decision was harsh but not because Dunne was cheating. So Spud there's some more bollocks for your collection.
 

sxboy

Well-Known Member
Jul 24, 2005
326
269
The way to stop a lot of cheating is for the Premier League/FA to stop having grey area get outs for players and clubs to exploit.
If a player goes down in the box it is either a pen, dive or fair challenge not a free kick with no punishment.
A rule should be put into place and stuck to not be able to appeal against in three days time. If the threat of punishment is there and upheld players would think twice about cheating. Officials make mistakes but i think the fall out after the game leads to alot of these mistakes. We get a dodgy pen on sat and it was always coming back to haunt us.
 

spurs_viola

Rui Costa,dreamspurs no10
Mar 10, 2005
2,454
0
I'm utterly fed up with the arguments about how using video replays of an incident straight after it happened "would slow the game down" etc. The important decisions, like red card, penalty award, goal from an off-side position, or goal disallowed because of a linesman's flag AFTER the goal, ball crossing the line or not (ie goal or not) lead to protests from an aggrieved side every time, which last at least a minute, often more when referee decides to stamp more of his "authority" and brandish a yellow card to the most vocal protester. Using a video replay would not take longer and will help make a more correct decision.

The bleating about the "constant stopping of the game" is just nonsense, as it happens all the time anyway because of the protests etc.

As for the reluctance to use different standards in professional and amateur game, one just needs to face to the simple and irreputable fact that there are monumental differences between higher levels of professional game (Premiership and Championship in English case) and the lower levels; and that the financial consequences and pressures for the club and everyone around it (ie all employees, sponsors, businesses around the stadium, etc) in Premier league in the last few years are increasingly incomparable to those at lower levels.

I am convinced that the resistance to things like using video replays from organisations like FIFA / UEFA / FA have much less to do with their concern for "grass roots" than with their concern for erosion of their powers and influence on the higher levels of the game.
 

Rumbaldo

Well-Known Member
Jan 1, 2005
1,051
107
I don't mean to be disrespectful, but that is complete bollocks.

I didn't see a jump; I saw a Drogba-esque post-assassination tumble. He fooled the ref completely and was happy to do it. Cheating. No more, no less. And I refer you to my point about 'contact' and invite you to read up on what constitutes a foul.

I invite you to take the rose tinted specs off!
Wilson was being a twat jumping in for a challenge like that whilst on a yellow card.
if dunn hadn't jumped/taken a "post-assassination tumble" he would of been clattered and palacios would of been booked anyway.

its all swings and roundabout lets face it if the boot had been on the other foot we would be laughing about our extra 3 points.
 

UbeAstard

Well-Known Member
May 31, 2005
3,354
2,413
I don't mean to be disrespectful, but that is complete bollocks.

I didn't see a jump; I saw a Drogba-esque post-assassination tumble. He fooled the ref completely and was happy to do it. Cheating. No more, no less. And I refer you to my point about 'contact' and invite you to read up on what constitutes a foul.

Well you see what you wanna see maybe, but I dont think Dunn tried to cheat in anyway at all.
 

DC_Boy

New Member
May 20, 2005
17,608
5
dunn dived but wilson made it possible for the ref to send him off

on a yellow in a game like that against an allardyce team, you have to keep your wits about you

that's why I can't agree with people who made wilson MOTM - up to that ill-advised lunge he was - after that he wasn't

and yes I would like to see a thorough review of all prem games by a panel of refs not FA officials, ex-players, commentators etc who on the whole have a poor/insufficient grasp of the rules of the game
 

mancman

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2006
363
688
If a defender hauls down a striker as he hones in on goal and that defender is the last defender then that player is sent off. This is a game changing situation. So when a player 'dives' in the box and tries to gain a penalty (another game changing situation) he should BE SENT OFF! Similarly the constant mouthing of some players to referees sickens me (for example Craig Bellamy). T**ts like him should also be sent off. He and his like make it bloody difficult for referees in the lowest leagues to officiate games by the appaling example he and his like set. God i feel better after this rant......
 
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