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Some thoughts on Martin Jol

spud

Well-Known Member
Sep 2, 2003
5,850
8,794
The recent frenzy of speculation regarding he future of Martin Jol has led to a number of unanswered questions. Will he be sacked? Will he resign? Has he ‘lost the dressing room’? Has he lost the confidence of the board? In short: what the hell is going on?

Yesterday’s statement by the board was very interesting – not so much for what it said as what it failed to say. For example “…we are an ambitious Club and we want Champions League football at White Hart Lane …” and “we the Board, owe it to the Club and the supporters to constantly assess our position and performance and to ensure that we have the ability to operate and compete at that level”. So far, so good. It goes on to say “For that we need our management and coaching standards to be of the highest quality such that players can fulfil their potential and we can compete with the best.” Again, no argument there.

What you would then expect is a ringing endorsement of the existing management team; something along the lines of “we are confident that Martin and his team have the ability to lead us to the promised land” followed by an assertion that they (the board) will make no further comment on idle speculation. Did we get it? No. What we got was “Martin….. has confirmed to me today that he feels he is equipped with a squad and a determination to take on that challenge.” Translation: Martin thinks that he can do it but we’re not so sure.

In view of this, it is difficult to conclude anything other than we will have a new manager / head coach in the near future unless the position (whatever it is!) changes rapidly. So the real question is therefore whether his departure will be a good or bad thing for the short and long-term ambitions of the club.

Martin is a good coach, as two manager of the year awards in Holland and two fifth place Prem finishes testify. But is he good enough? Some of his tactics have been called into question, and he clearly wouldn’t recognize a good substitution if somebody drew it for him. Plus we have been buying many of the best players available in the last three years; better players, when properly organised, will generally produce better results than their predecessors – especially if they are superior to those playing for the other team.

Other aspects of his reign call his abilities into question. We were frankly lucky to get fifth place last year, and should have been fourth two years ago. It wasn’t ‘lasagnagate’ that cost us, it was a downturn in form leading up to it. And – with one notable exception – we can’t buy a win against the so-called ‘big four’. So he might be good enough to take us to the next level, but the jury is clearly out.

If we assume that his replacement is more able, then the long-term objective (in my opinion, Premier League champions and Champions League winners) should be more attainable. But what about this season?

The key is (obviously) the players. If there are ‘pro-Jol’ and ‘Jol out’ camps, or if the new man is unable to quickly harness the team spirit that we are told is so good, then we are in trouble. But then if those for and against Jol lobbies exist, then we are in trouble anyway.

In short, I haven’t got a clue. All I can say for certain is that our revival began not with Martin Jol or Frank Arneson or the signing of better quality players. Our revival began with the appointment of Daniel Levy as Chairman. I trust him. I believe that he is a fan like us. I believe that he has the best interests of the club uppermost in his mind and that he will do what it takes to get us to where we want to be. So if he, and his board, think that replacing Martin Jol is the thing to do then I am 100% behind him.

I hope that you are too.
 

JonnySpurs

SC Veteran
Jun 4, 2004
5,346
12,398
I am behind Daniel Levy and I agree that he is the reason for our resurgence but what you cannot forget is that appointing Martin Jol was essentially a fluke after the debacle that was Jacques Santini - so it could easily be argued that whilst from a business standpoint DL has got it right - as I would expect him too given his background - from a footballing point of view it is much harder to appreciate how clued up he really is.

The statement put out by the club yesterday, for me, is about as hollow as it gets and simply a stay of execution for MJ. There is no doubting that he is a fantastic coach and man manager but as you've pointed out it may just be that he doesn't quite have what it takes to get us into 4th spot. It seems he will be given a certain period of time to see what he can do but quite clearly that will be dependant on results. If we don't perform against Man Utd, Fulham and Arsenal in the next few weeks then it will not be long before MJ is shown the exit door.
 

nav007_2000

Well-Known Member
Sep 28, 2006
2,157
2,622
I feel sorry for Jol. He is in a situation that he knows he will get sacked if he doesn't get into the champions league. Levy shouldn't have put that pressure on him. It could be that half way through the season Jol decides to walk away due to all the pressures. We will totally be screwed then.
I totally support Jol. He has brought great stability to the club. Two successive 5th places. It's not his fault that some of Camolli's buys aren't up to scratch.
I hope that there is still money to spend to get the quality we need. Maybe Levy has told Jol that we have spent enough and now he wants to see a return on investment. What do you guys think?

Now that Ramos is staying at Seville, does that mean Riquelme's move is off?
 

rsam8

Member
Dec 13, 2006
46
0
Agreed putting pressure on the manager and setting realistic expectations is one thing, but to publicly announce them is quite another.
Personally I would have rather a statement been delivered last week when this nonsense began stating that Jol has our unwielding support - but behind closed doors to be told 4th or else....
We will now get a running report from the rags on the sack-o-meter where every dropped point will be felt like another nail being banged in..
 

Freddiehotspur

Active Member
Jul 28, 2005
209
47
First of all, i am one of Jol's biggest fans. I think he has worked wonders for our club, and all credit to Arnesen/Levy for getting him in in the first place. He communicates directly with his players, and in a manner which makes them believe they can actually do stuff. And we have never heard of a player who has openly criticised him or his training methods. Mido didn't have one single bad word to say about him, just said he was a very good coach/manager, but that Tottenham had too much POLITICS destroying the focus of the game. Actually, MIDO hit the nail on the spot.

Today there is a new report on Defoe wanting a transfer.. Don't believe a single word of it. It's utter bullshit, just as much bullshit as Malbranque ridiculing the manager when he ran over to Zokora...

Still, i think Levy playing his cards wrongly (as i believe he hasn't handled this situation well at all) could be a blessing in disguise. I think the consequence will be fans shouting louder, Jol thinking harder, Robinson kicking longer (oh no), Routledge running faster, Berbatov shining brighter and Keano hitting those volleys into the top corners.

If this circus doesn't make everyone, players, fans, manager, stand up and be counted, then they are not worthy of wearing their shirts.

This is the time when some will stand up and some will fall behind. This is the time when the winning mentality shall flow through the players.

All provoked by a blessing in disguise...
 

ackie

Well-Known Member
Dec 29, 2005
8,780
6,660
Look, Mr Levy is the director and we cannot deny that he is ambitious! He has invested and is right to want/demand results and honours! We are blessed with that sort of director who was ready to build and give time ( 3 - 4 seasons) and seeing the bad start we made this season, probably begun to question Jol Ability. Remember there was pressure from other members of the board that did not agree with Jol and they probably put the pressure of him to look for a winner, that is Ramos.
I think Ramos turned us down till next season. Read the lines - He has one more year left with Sevilla and so the board has given Jol one more season to achieve champion league and honours or else - we know the consequence!
I think he will do it. Man Utd have made a bad start and Arsenal are not their best, SO WE CAN DO IT! The board feels it, so do we and so do the critics (most of them)!
He will demand a new contract if he does make it! I for one hopes he achieves where others have fail! Go Jol! Go get that dream - You are Spurs through and through!!!
 

TrueYid

Active Member
Jul 29, 2003
2,429
33
Jol will get us to fourth, and turn around to the board and shove his big little fingure up at them and say "f*ck off, United want me to replace SAF, and I am going"
 

madaboutspurs

Bill Nick
Dec 14, 2004
258
2
i really cant believe the way BMJ has been treated, yes the guys got some faults but you cant dismiss what hes done for us, this week has been a disaster im surprised he hasn't walked, if he does in the future i wouldn't blame him, how can he work for people who obviously don't want him. ive always backed Levy and realy see this out of character, but i guess money talks, its a real shame, would love to see spurs and BMJ now go to old trafford and smash united and hold there middle fingers up to the board
 

WaldotheCat

live and laugh at it all
Aug 21, 2007
79
224
Levy appears to be a better chairman then some out there, but there seems to be a touch of the Freddie Shepperd's about all this. It also worries me that the club really does have a habit of chopping decent managers before their time. What we have not had for a long, long time is a period of stability and continuity, when the team and the gaffer grow and develop together. All the really great successful teams of the past and the present have had or have long-serving managers.
It has been a long time since Spurs were punching their weight, looking like contenders and playing (some) attractive football with flair, imagination and elan. Martin Jol has had a big part to play in this and I just want him to have more time and space to keep building it up. We all want success and the opening two games were a real downer, but I expect us to be still developing over the next couple of years. Top four is a possibility but what would you prefer: a top four finish this year and then knocked out of the CL at an early stage, or finish fith or sixth and win the Uefa cup and FA cup ? The second option is probably still the more realistic for us, and one I would be well pleased with, but it isn't going to happen with all this pressure and weight of expectation heaped on the manager and the players. The Levy statement is hardly a ringing endorsement, and there is still a sense that if we loose two on the trot and then draw at home with a relegation favopurite, BMJ is going to be shown the door. Is this Spanish flavour of the month going to win us the CL in his first season ? - of course not. It will probably set us back for another two years and the alternatives (Harry Redknap for god's sake!) are the stuff of nightmare. I think the board have really cocked this up.
 

DCSPUR

Well-Known Member
Apr 15, 2005
3,918
5,415
breaking news on the beeb - ramos saying he rejected a huge offer from us
 

2bearis2do

Well-Known Member
Apr 22, 2006
3,820
2,317
Levy is a businessman. Make no mistake. Yes a fan too. But he is employed by ENIC. He HAS to make PROFIT. That is why he exists. CLge football is the best way to make profit in football.

Martin Jol is a footballman. He lives and breaths football. He has great football knowledge and to top it all he loves Spurs.

Where their interests and ambitions meet is simply at making Spurs a top 4 team with regular CL football.

How they get there is where the conflict lies.

But this conflict should be a PRIVATE one.
 

mendesstormer

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2005
644
418
There seems to be a scary amount of cap-doffing on this board in the direction of Daniel Levy. Levy is a businessman first and foremost - it's virtually coincidental that he's a Spurs fan. Yes, he's done a good job so far - as has Jol. But his motives are inevitably business-oriented. He will do what it takes to make Spurs successful only in as far as it puts money in his pocket. If he realises this isn't happening, or if he sees a better way to make a big profit, he'll most likely sell. That's what a good businessman would do. Do I trust a businessman? Err, no. That is, I trust him to look after his own financial interests above all else.
Constantly repeating the mantra that Daniel Levy is a Spurs fan will blind you to the inevitable realities of life.
 

eurodat

Active Member
Aug 13, 2004
169
64
But this conflict should be a PRIVATE one.

I think the board had hoped it would remain private! This will end one of two ways. MJ will prove them wrong or he will walk away. he must be absolutely gutted and has a right to feel very let down. I think this is a disgraceful episode and there we were thinking the gooners had some issues that might derail their season...
 

RogerTCB

Well-Known Member
May 14, 2005
682
328
Levy is a businessman...Martin Jol is a footballman. Where their interests and ambitions meet is simply at making Spurs a top 4 team with regular CL football. How they get there is where the conflict lies.

But this conflict should be a PRIVATE one.

Agree completely. Looks like it would have been too, were it not for those pesky kids (read Ramos' agent)

Seems Levy et. al. have been lining him up for some time, got an invite to go over and decided it was time to make an offer - may have even though the invite was a come-on. They didn't realise the agent had tipped-off the press and so got caught with their trousers down.
If it weren't for the agent the offer only may have been made and, either way, we would probably have been none the wiser. Had Ramos accepted, the first we'd have known was that we had a new manager. As it is, there was the massive cock-up that has been whitnessed over the last few days.
 

Oz_Spurs

New Member
Sep 27, 2005
29
0
sorry if someone already posted this

but Ramos has come out and said he turned us down and our dizzying offer

where does that leave Jol, getting the boot either way presumably
 

Makkaveli101

SC Supporter
Apr 11, 2004
1,570
1,764
Is it just me or does anyone else find this whole Jol debate baffling, and almost in the realms of insanity?! So we had to win all three games to not hear all this bullshit?! I just don't understand any of it.
 

Leeuwardenspur

New Member
Dec 7, 2006
43
0
there is that sentence again: "we were lucky to get fifth last season". Can someone explain why we were lucky? Lucky because we got more points then the teams below us? Lucky because we played 59 competitive games and the likes of Bolton and Everton played less? Lucky because we sold one of our best players (Carrick)? Lucky because Berbatov and Zokora for example needed time to adjust to the premiership?
 

spud

Well-Known Member
Sep 2, 2003
5,850
8,794
there is that sentence again: "we were lucky to get fifth last season". Can someone explain why we were lucky? Lucky because we got more points then the teams below us? Lucky because we played 59 competitive games and the likes of Bolton and Everton played less? Lucky because we sold one of our best players (Carrick)? Lucky because Berbatov and Zokora for example needed time to adjust to the premiership?

We were lucky because after playing 38 games (which I think was the same as the other teams) and being nowhere near fifth place for most of the season, we rose to fifth only because of the last-hurdle stumble of those above us.

By the same token, the Goons were lucky to get fourth place the year before.

Get it now?
 
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