Spurs can’t compete financially – discuss.

[McArchibald]

Spurs can't compete because Levy and Lewis won't let us. They're only in it to maximize their eventual profit, not to win trophies.
And don't throw in FFP - that's just a fig leaf for the fans and media. It certainly never stopped Abramovich or the City Sheikhs...

 

[millsey]

Spurs can't compete because Levy and Lewis won't let us. They're only in it to maximize their eventual profit, not to win trophies.
And don't throw in FFP - that's just a fig leaf for the fans and media. It certainly never stopped Abramovich or the City Sheikhs...

Theres no doubt Lewis could spend more. He's a multi billionaire but won't let the club spend more than it gets in. That's very different to the clubs above us

 

[SambaSpurs]

It's foolish to argue that just because Tottenham Hotspur goes on despite losing top players that having more money won't help us to compete at the top sustainably.

Obviously scouting, coaching and having the right manager are all a huge part of it. But, at the end of the day, if we could pay slightly higher wages we would likely have Mane instead of Sissoko right now. There would be much less threat of losing the best right back in the league, and much less speculation around our squad in general. Lemar wouldn't be choosing europa league Arsenal over us (jj claimed wages was the issue I believe). It's unquestionable we would have a better team, and therefore a better chance of winning trophies.

We can still carry on our policy of picking up the alli's, bale's and hopefully R. Sessegnon's of this world, with a strong academy contingent, as well as being able to bring in top players. Think United in the Fergie era they had the perfect mix, and I genuinely think that's what Poch is trying to build with us.

 

[Japhet]

Our best players always leave eventually, fans have a meltdown, wonder who could possibly replace them, and Tottenham Hotspur goes on... It's the frameworks you have in place to deal with this.

There is as much chance of us finishing 6th (say) and our players wanting to leave for 'better' teams, whether we are in our present situation or raking in another couple of hundred million pounds a year in my opinion.

And if we won the League you can bet we'd get more heat from RM, Barca, Bayern etc. for the players who won it. Utd.couldn't hold onto Ronaldo when RM came knocking and Suarez was gone like a rat down a drainpipe.

 

[millsey]

If having more money means we can pay the wages that our players deserve and would get elsewhere, and competing for really good players rather than the chance to turn them into good players, then that can only be a good thing

 

[RichieS]

Spurs can't compete because Levy and Lewis won't let us. They're only in it to maximize their eventual profit, not to win trophies.
And don't throw in FFP - that's just a fig leaf for the fans and media. It certainly never stopped Abramovich or the City Sheikhs...

Every. Single. Summer.

FFS.

You are correct that Levy and Lewis are looking to maximise their investment (although Levy must be at least a little bit emotionally invested by now). But I wonder whether that top value will be achieved by being at the top or in the middle of the table?

*strokes chin thoughtfully*

 

[Krule]

I know I have printed this on here before but when I asked the question about wages I received a most informative answer from davidmatzdorf which said :

We can't do that until we have the increased turnover that the new stadium should provide. In accounting terms, total salaries should be limited to approx. 55% of turnover if you want to be seen to be running a sustainable business - and we have to do that, because we don't have the kind of rich hobbyist owner that Chelsea and Man City have - the ones the FFP regulations were ostensibly designed to control.ENIC run THFC as a business and a long-term investment, not as a hobby or a toy. They don't subsidise the club, they invest in it.With a 36k stadium, we couldn't increase wages without breaching the guidelines on turnover.

Now with Mr Levy being an accountant by trade then waiting for the increased turnover is exactly what he will do. I have no doubt that discussions have taken place with our top players concerning the current salary structure in comparison to rival clubs. I would imagine lucrative bonuses/incentives have been offered for them to 'ride the storm' . Wembley turnover must offer a substantial increase in income with the new stadium 'just around the corner' as regards it's completion.

Whilst we may appear to be 'country cousins' financially compared to Chelsea/Man City/Man Utd etc I am certain that Tottenham are not only constructing solid and stable foundations at the new ground but also doing exactly the same thing with regard to their finances and investments too.

We have a squad that came second only to a Chelsea side that oozed expensive but effective talent. We did it on a tight budget and with a squad of players who whilst undoubtedly talented are also not willing to become part of some huge conglomerate footballing machine earning vast amounts of money but spending most of their time making 'guest' appearances in the first team when it suits the manager's whim.

There have been mistakes along the road with poor signings (we all know who) but progress has been steady. Maybe the current crop of top talent out there in the marketplace would rather take the short sighted view of high wages but sacrificing regular playing time. The more astute and forward thinking ones will realise just what is happening at Spurs and want to be a part of it... either this season or as we move in to our new home.

I have waited nearly 40 years to see this club finally claw it's way back to where it once was in British and world football. I never ever thought I would again be as thrilled and excited as I am now. Last season was a wonderful experience, the next one will be a transitional period but I see no reason why current standards of play and commitment should drop or our confidence falter. Then on to a new venue, confident of success and attracting the RIGHT players for the RIGHT reasons.

This is a marvellous time to be a Tottenham supporter so friendly and teasing banter about who is coming and who we have supposedly 'lost' to rival clubs will no doubt continue on here. All I do know is that when that kick off whistle sounds at Newcastle on August the 12th no matter what the names of the eleven Spurs players who are proudly wearing the shirt are....they will get my unwavering and undying support ...............COYS !!

 

[king26]

we have with youngsters got players that fight for the shirt big name foriegn players only want big wage packets and only try when it suits them sooner have yougsters like winks edwards cwp than big name losers like manure or cheatski sign youngsters have more backbone aswell and better support from the fans

 

[SandroClegane]

we have with youngsters got players that fight for the shirt big name foriegn players only want big wage packets and only try when it suits them sooner have yougsters like winks edwards cwp than big name losers like manure or cheatski sign youngsters have more backbone aswell and better support from the fans

half our team was foreign last season wtf is this nonsense?

 

[Frozen_Waffles]

Spurs not only have the problem of competing financially, we also have to be well known globally.

We become well known by having big players, there is a reason City have spent big on SA players, they are now more of a global brand

B Silva and Gabriel Jesus were inspired signings, they may have paid about 80m for the two, but could easily be world famous players in a couple of years.

We have Kane and Alli, who are not so famous abroad. We need internationally recognised footballers to make us as big as City or United. In the PL you have Hazard, Sanchez, Ibra (had), Aguero, Pogba, Costa (Possibly), Willian (Possibly), Ozil, Rooney, Jesus, Toure, Coutinho, Firminho.

Try as we might, we will not be able to become a worldwide phenomenon until we have big names.

Spurs are nowhere near as big worldwide as any of the other top 6, everyone knows who Chelsea are, but you mention Spurs and Tottenham you get a blank stare.

We are generally only known because of Gareth Bale being sold to Madrid! Kane is part 1 and maybe Alli can be 2, but we could do with a few more.

Lamela, Soldado and Paulhino were the right type of signings to make us bigger, just not better.

So yes, more big names! However this is to make us a global brand.

Personally I prefer us to keep going as we are and invest in potential, our youngsters and the odd bargain.

However, if we sell a few players and splash the cash on James (for example) it might do us alot of good, but just not on the pitch.

 

[Stopspot]

^ on the topic touched upon by the post above. Our current squad is slowly getting there tho.

Son is getting very over in Korea and the rest of Asia. It's described as sort of how Zlatan is to the Scandinavian countries, only in its earlier stages. The club is also becoming more and more popular in Asia because of that and because of the AIA deal.

So while your post holds a lot of merit I'd also like to point out that we are slowly getting there

 

[arunspurs]

I am not sure how you came with those figures for 2019, when the fact still remains that nobody here knows who & what of the specifics of a naming rights deal. We may all want a multimillion pound per year contract. Fact is no naming rights is signed yet, so no way we can speculate whats our earning will be in 2019.

By building the stadium & giving away naming rights, ofcourse we are going to improve ticket sales & commercial revenue. But by how much is to be seen.

At the same time, you assume that other clubs are going to be standing still. Likes of Everton & Chelsea may already be in stadium build phase by then. United & City may be on lookout for new business models. Chelsea already found a way to make profits by buying talents across the world & loaning them out for 2 years & selling them for huge profits.

My simple point is, we don't exists in a vaccum. Without knowing any specifics on future deals, its pointless to say whether we will bridge the gap financially.

 

[WexfordTownSpur]

We have competed by not competing, if we had tried to accommodate a few 'big' players and spend it would have destroyed everything.

Basically if a player joins Spurs it means they are hungry to improve an not solely motivated by money, it basically weeds out twats before they even get in the door.

I genuinely believe the fact we can't compete financially has created the conditions where bizarrely enough we compete absolutely. It's a symbiotic relationship that when you add Pochettino makes anything possible.

I know this post doesn't really fit the thread, but I hope we don't stray too far from the model.

I think a few years ago the gap was bigger, especially when players stayed longer at a club. So the likes of RM and Barca and of course Man U and Chelski were paying big transfer fees and big wages and we couldn't compete. I think the difference now is contracts mean nothing anymore and players And managers; are not staying at the big clubs as long as they used to. This means the Man U's and Man City's of this world end up disjointed and allow clubs like Spurs to grab some headlines and league position.
But let's face it, in this time of crazy transfer fees and wages, we won't be able to hang on to Kane, Alli, even Poch for much longer. Difference now is although we will loose players because we can't compete wage or transfer fee wise, the big clubs are also losing players and gaining players every season which helps level the playing field just a little. They stay disjointed where we have a solid base. If we can continue to get good young talent and keep them longer than other clubs keep their big stars then we might just be okay. However that is only staying in the top 4! I doubt as we have seen if we can compete on a squad level and have a big enough squad to compete in the league,CL, and domestic cups.
Sorry but at the end of the day if you want to compete on all levels ( the next level if you will) you need lots of money for transfers and wages for a big talented squad. I just don't see us challenging the Manchester clubs and Chelski at that level for a long long time, but maybe ARSEnal in a few years

 

[Spurzinho]

On topic or not...I am getting a little nervous that our prudence is starting to bleed into complacency. Its all very well acknowledging the reality that we're not a Man Utd, Man City, Chelski or apparently even the Gooners, and it has to be said that I'm not overly jealous about the players they're targeting but the feeling does remain that they are all proactively strengthening, and I do mean strengthening...not picking up speculative benchwarmers like the N'Jie's and N'Koudou's of this world. What ever you may think of Lukaku he's going to add goal threat (if little else) to United & Lacazette can't fail to diversify and spice up the Gooners attack (which has been relying on poor options for a few seasons).

We have a good squad, it's true, but relative to everyone else's its standing still. We have good options in central midfield but lack someone who can have the genuine impact in the final third when Ericksen & Alli are unavailable or having a bad day. We all know about our obvious weakness up front and now is the time to fix that. I really don't want to think about having to make do without Kane for weeks or end again. Its those games that will cost us at the end of the season.

We're still a top 4/5 side but top 3 is not a given unless we pull our finger out. As for challenging for the title? Even if we get damn lucky with injuries we're relatively less strong than last season because of our opponents signings, as mention above so I don't see us getting closer which would be a hard one to justify from the club.

Rambling on I know but I worry our minds are on the new stadium and not enough on the here and now.

 

[danielneeds]

Spurs can't compete because Levy and Lewis won't let us. They're only in it to maximize their eventual profit, not to win trophies.
And don't throw in FFP - that's just a fig leaf for the fans and media. It certainly never stopped Abramovich or the City Sheikhs...

The difference is Lewis made his money (although not always ethically), whereas Roman stole it and the Sheikhs were given it. Easy come easy go, if you like...

 

[Led's Zeppelin]

Spurs can't compete because Levy and Lewis won't let us. They're only in it to maximize their eventual profit, not to win trophies.
And don't throw in FFP - that's just a fig leaf for the fans and media. It certainly never stopped Abramovich or the City Sheikhs...

This sort of argument is flawed.

If I invest in a business it's because I believe in the product but more importantly because i believe in the management's ability to get the best return on my investment.

If I then have to put in more of my own money to make my investment work as well as possible, that's a sign of failure.

From the perspective of a supporter, it doesn't feel like that. But from an investor's point of view that's exactly how it works.

The thing is, Abramovich is not an investor, he's a money laundering egotist. The sheiks are simply buying global brand awareness and diversifying the assets of an energy-dependent economy; they are operating on a national economy level which is an entirely different scale of operation from "simply" building a competitive football club.

This is why FFP ought to be important but is in fact hopelessly inadequate.

 

[Cavehillspur]

Spurs can't compete because Levy and Lewis won't let us. They're only in it to maximize their eventual profit, not to win trophies.
And don't throw in FFP - that's just a fig leaf for the fans and media. It certainly never stopped Abramovich or the City Sheikhs...

In a recent documentary on Sky about the new stadium etc Levy stated that he wont be satisfied until Spurs win the league...

 

[Lilbaz]

The stadium will close the gap but the only way we will be on a par financially with the big clubs is by winning trophies consistently over a number of years. But if we do that do we even need to compete financially?

 

[Indacupfortottenham]

The stadium will close the gap but the only way we will be on a par financially with the big clubs is by winning trophies consistently over a number of years. But if we do that do we even need to compete financially?

I think so, also think ENIC will sell within three years of completion.

 

[Led's Zeppelin]

I think so, also think ENIC will sell within three years of completion.

ENIC will sell when it suits them, and the reasons may never be known, (they're negotiators) and there's no reason why they need to be.

But, the implication that Levy is only interested in the financial return is a bit unrealistic. Not only is he not a robot, despite some physical resemblance to R2D2, but there are a host of reasons for wanting a club that you've be so closely associated with for such a long time now to be as successful as possible.