Spurs fans will have to take their medicine if they want to stay among the big boys

[guate]

What was it 'Arry, while still our manager, said, something about 4th place being as good as it gets??
Got a lot of stick over that and now it all seems to make sense

 

[Spurs 1961]

Boring post. Levy is a money grabber; we have a small stadium; we can't improve if we don't spend untold millions (so Everton did last season did they or Southampton?)...etc...etc. Heard it all before....yawn!

 

[avonspurs]

The full line was:
"overtaken by the likes of Everton and, of course, Liverpool while utterly failing to close the gap on Arsenal."

There's nothing factually wrong there given that Everton overtook us last season. It's not stretching the imagination to think they wont achieve that again this year, while Liverpool, Arsenal et al widen their gap from us.

I think overall there's far too much focus on expenditure and Levy. I don't know any Spurs fans who are upset because we don't partake in the squillion pound deals that pay obsene wages per week - we already spend enough on wages. If there's any complaints about transfer policy, it's the idea that we don't need more and better options up front. Where are the Dier or Stambouli-esque signings of forwards?

The real disappointment and malaise that has emerged is rooted in the type of footy we play and the lack of aggression and urgency in our team as a whole. We appear to have mismanaged the team's turnover since Harry left and look like a bunch of strangers bereft of team spirit and leadership. We get blown away by better sides because of this. And I suspect the lesser sides are going to suss us out even more unless Poch addresses this aspect pretty quickly.

I think the high water mark of Harry's time will be tough to return to, and shedding AVB's legacy and re-building some winning mentality and real fighters for the cause is high on Poch's to-do list. He seems like a manager with a good reputation for dealing with it, so hopefully he can improve this aspect and get us playing more urgent attacking footy in the coming weeks.

If not, I think 6th is beyond us, let alone 4th.

Its also not stretching the imagination to think that we will finish above Everton.

i agree that Liverpool appear to be on an upward trend; however to argue that, because they finished above us last season, Everton will do the same this year is not "factually" correct: it's an assumption.

and of course Harry's high water mark will be tough to achieve again because all teams have significantly improved from then. That includes us. Problem is that we are trying to do it at the same time as funding a new stadium so we can't (or won't) spend the vast sums of money that other teams will/have, without it being funded by outgoing players. And that does upset some fans (not me)

 

[guiltyparty]

What was it 'Arry, while still our manager, said, something about 4th place being as good as it gets??
Got a lot of stick over that and now it all seems to make sense

As ever with Harry, I'm not sure what he said was necessarily wrong, it's the way he said it. He created a division between himself and the fans, a "me and them" split. "Dunno what they're moaning about, they've never had it so good" etc.

You might have pulled an absolute stunner for your other half, but if they kept telling you "I'm a catch, me, you cannot criticise me for anything, ever again" every morning, you'd soon get fed up with it, no matter how fit they were

 

[m*****73]

Most accurate statement in the whole article:

"Levy is a businessman first and a Spurs man second."

That is undeniably true. I don't blame him for it. He's there to make a buck - as is Joe Lewis. ENIC bought this club with the aim of achieving commercial success - if that included on-field success, then that was great, but Levy's objective has always been the bottom line on the P&L, not the club's position on the league table.

What's amazing to me is how many supporters on this forum seem to support Levy more than the club...

They were desperate for Dawson to leave despite the fact that he bled for the club and the shirt. They hate Harry despite the fact that he brought more success to the club than any other manager we've had during the Premier League era. They call Modric and Berbatov 'judas' despite the games they won for us and despite both of those players having been vindicated by moving to a club that actually invested properly in the team and were rewarded with trophies and the highest success.

And yet, those same "fans" won't hear a bad word spoken about our chairman. They'll defend him to the hilt. They'll swallow every excuse as to why we can't compete with the so-called big clubs (despite the fact that Spurs charge the 3rd highest ticket prices in the league - I should know, I've been a season ticket holder for 15yrs). They'll believe every story as to how we came so close to securing a big transfer signing only to fall at the final hurdle. They'll blame everyone else - the players, the managers, the other clubs - for our failures.

But never Levy.

They'll attack anyone who dares to criticise the chairman. And, by and large, they'll do it in a pathetic, obnoxious and hateful manner.

That is until ENIC sell up for a nice big profit, exiting stage left with their pockets full of cash and the trophy cabinet bare.

Then all the Levy worshippers will rewrite their definition of history. Until then, just remember "Levy is a businessman first and a Spurs man second." If you want to support the businessman, go ahead.

I was here before Levy & ENIC - and I'll be here after they've gone.

 

[m*****73]

Its also not stretching the imagination to think that we will finish above Everton.

i agree that Liverpool appear to be on an upward trend; however to argue that, because they finished above us last season, Everton will do the same this year is not "factually" correct: it's an assumption.

and of course Harry's high water mark will be tough to achieve again because all teams have significantly improved from then. That includes us. Problem is that we are trying to do it at the same time as funding a new stadium so we can't (or won't) spend the vast sums of money that other teams will/have, without it being funded by outgoing players. And that does upset some fans (not me)

Now, that's an assumption....

 

[ginola007]

Most accurate statement in the whole article:

"Levy is a businessman first and a Spurs man second."

That is undeniably true. I don't blame him for it. He's there to make a buck - as is Joe Lewis.

If making a buck is the only criterion for owning a football club, then I'd afraid the businessman is in the wrong business. Though money certainly has permeated football in untold ways, we mustn't forget the words of our icon Danny Blanchflower, who once said that football is above all, about glory, not wanting the opposition to die of boredom. Don't think we have done this for a couple of years at least.

 

[scottlag10]

I think the general feeling is one of resigned understanding of the situation, a feeling that will be improved greatly when we actually see the new stadium rising up out of the ground.
PS My mate, the eternal pessimist, has a doomsday scenario that is truly scary. We finish the stadium just as the worlds top clubs form their own breakaway league, and TV companies put all their money into covering that league. Leaving Spurs behind in some sort of English league with massively reduced TV revenue, which leads to us folding due to an inability to service our stadium debts. Life and soul of the party he is.

 

[jolsnogross]

Its also not stretching the imagination to think that we will finish above Everton.

i agree that Liverpool appear to be on an upward trend; however to argue that, because they finished above us last season, Everton will do the same this year is not "factually" correct: it's an assumption.

and of course Harry's high water mark will be tough to achieve again because all teams have significantly improved from then. That includes us. Problem is that we are trying to do it at the same time as funding a new stadium so we can't (or won't) spend the vast sums of money that other teams will/have, without it being funded by outgoing players. And that does upset some fans (not me)

Nobody said Everton will finish above us this year, but they have overtaken us if we use the reasonable measure of the most recent season's final table.

But aside from all that, I again think the money aspect is being over blown. We didn't spend huge sums when Harry was manager either while other sides did. We picked up a player like Modric for 16 million, and now we're picking up Paulinho and Soldado for larger fees but who are letting us down or not being managed properly to produce the goods. We've reverted to the 'buy young, sell later' approach as an exclusive model, rather than Harry's mixed approach of adding a couple of experienced heads into the mix. So we're spending equivalent sums as we did when we were successful, but we've mismanaged those funds and mismanaged the character and quality of the squad.

It's early yet and Poch may well be the man to turn it around, but I fear we're stuck in limbo now for a good stretch, not beacsue of finances but becasue of managerial turnover, picking the wrong man (AVB), and having an entirely new team turnover that seems to lack experience and fight

 

[cliff jones]

I think the problem is we've all known this for 4 years.

We got planning permission for ourr stadium FOUR FUCKING YEARS AGO.

4 years ago we got Champions league football

4 years ago we got planning permission for a new ground

4 years ago we had 4 world class outfield players



What do we have now?

A world class goalie, a big hole and a Sainsburies.

Fuck off ENIC.

You forgot an unused single ticket to Stratford.

 

[bigspurs]

People that go on about Levy's 'money grabbing' antics are being a bit naive and not being realistic. Don't get me wrong, I'm gutted that Spurs did not invest and strengthen when we first qualified for the Champs League. I'm really pissed off that we haven't signed a decent centre forward (again), but business is business. These people have to balance the books. With all the stupid money flying around in football these days, I'm glad we haven't got a bunch of cowboys in charge!

It is a bit of a roller coaster ride supporting this club, however it could be a lot worse! Imagine having Ashley in charge?! Or that crazy prick at Cardiff!

We've got a stable club, a decent side (on paper) and a new stadium on the way, so I'm not exactly depressed right now.

 

[avonspurs]

Nobody said Everton will finish above us this year, but they have overtaken us if we use the reasonable measure of the most recent season's final table.

But aside from all that, I again think the money aspect is being over blown. We didn't spend huge sums when Harry was manager either while other sides did. We picked up a player like Modric for 16 million, and now we're picking up Paulinho and Soldado for larger fees but who are letting us down or not being managed properly to produce the goods. We've reverted to the 'buy young, sell later' approach as an exclusive model, rather than Harry's mixed approach of adding a couple of experienced heads into the mix. So we're spending equivalent sums as we did when we were successful, but we've mismanaged those funds and mismanaged the character and quality of the squad.

It's early yet and Poch may well be the man to turn it around, but I fear we're stuck in limbo now for a good stretch, not beacsue of finances but becasue of managerial turnover, picking the wrong man (AVB), and having an entirely new team turnover that seems to lack experience and fight

maybe I misunderstood what was meant by "Everton have overtaken us". Based on your statement, I assume that we have "overtaken" Man Utd as we finished above them last season.

it's good that you picked Modric as an example and compared him with the likes of Soldado/Paulinho, instead of (as an example) picking Bentley in comparison to Lloris (whom we could easily sell for twice what we paid for him). But, hey, we can all pick one or two examples to suit our statements, cant we.

 

[cliff jones]

maybe I misunderstood what was meant by "Everton have overtaken us". Based on your statement, I assume that we have "overtaken" Man Utd as we finished above them last season.

it's good that you picked Modric as an example and compared him with the likes of Soldado/Paulinho, instead of (as an example) picking Bentley in comparison to Lloris (whom we could easily sell for twice what we paid for him). But, hey, we can all pick one or two examples to suit our statements, cant we.

I think we will do well to finish above either this season. For me, it's not just that Everton finished above us last season, or ithat they spunked on an ever maturing lukaku who would have been great at spurs IMO, it's that they always give the bigger boys a really tough game as opposed to the attitude of our lot when we fall behind.

 

[Block D Spurs]

There are many factors involved as to why spurs have been mid table, top 4 champions League and Euro League, stadium build delay. Yes Harry did well when he was here, but did not have the younger players to back up / replace VDV, Modric etc. We were left with 13 players AVB had to move on. Now Poch. is shaping the squad in the same way as Jose etc. 2 players every position with young U21 loaned out. with a recognised core of quality players young enough to play together for 4 or 5 years, and move on at age say 29.. for replacements.

Stadium Build has been delayed 3 years by Archway Steel... Hence a CPO necessary. This action by Archway Steel cannot be blamed on Levy as it's been intimated by various sources they wanted at least 3 times what their land is worth, and tried to hold Levy for ransom. Even now they are trying to appeal, so more delay. If Levy had paid the many £millions they wanted, we would not have had the money to buy all the players we have now..

 

[guiltyparty]

Wahey! @CliffJones disagreed!

Please explain my good man?

 

[avonspurs]

I think we will do well to finish above either this season. For me, it's not just that Everton finished above us last season, or ithat they spunked on an ever maturing lukaku who would have been great at spurs IMO, it's that they always give the bigger boys a really tough game as opposed to the attitude of our lot when we fall behind.

but then logic would dictate that, historically, theyve been screwing up against the 'lesser' teams as we have finished above them most times. The pressure is on them this season - will be interesting to see how they cope with it.

 

[guiltyparty]

but then logic would dictate that, historically, theyve been screwing up against the 'lesser' teams as we have finished above them most times. The pressure is on them this season - will be interesting to see how they cope with it.

They also had Lukaku last season. I know he's good, but in business terms they've thrown money at a player they already had, so effectively spent £30m without any improvement to their team. And Everton are just not the kind of club that can do that too often.

Of their three stars last season, they only kept two of them. However, I think Eto'o was a very canny signing

 

[cliff jones]

They also had Lukaku last season. I know he's good, but in business terms they've thrown money at a player they already had, so effectively spent £30m without any improvement to their team. And Everton are just not the kind of club that can do that too often.

Of their three stars last season, they only kept two of them. However, I think Eto'o was a very canny signing

well following your logic those of us hoping Erik, Roberto and Paulinho will step up in their second season better give up now then. Logic also suggests Lukaku and his teammates would build on playing with each other last year, and hes very young and has yet to hit his peak- like Lamela. I appreciate second season syndrome exists, and for every black theres a white, this is all just my onion.

 

[Shirtfront]

"overtaken by the likes of Everton"..

you're having a laugh, aren't you?

Last time I checked they finished above us last season and deservedly so. I will sadly take a bet that they finish above us this Season. I think they have a better manager; a better ground; and had a better transfer window.

I also think they have maximised value with more limited resources better than we have.

Don't get me wrong - I would not want to be Everton. But I think they have outperformed us on a "relative" basis - which was the thrust of this Article.

 

[avonspurs]

Last time I checked they finished above us last season and deservedly so. I will sadly take a bet that they finish above us this Season. I think they have a better manager; a better ground; and had a better transfer window.

I also think they have maximised value with more limited resources better than we have.

Don't get me wrong - I would not want to be Everton. But I think they have outperformed us on a "relative" basis - which was the thrust of this Article.

so have we overtaken Man Utd as we finished above them last season?

on what criteria do they have a "better" stadium?

and as for transfer window being better, time will tell.