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Spurs hater David Baddeil in "not that Jewish" shocker!!!!

TheSpillage

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2013
907
2,590
I think if we can take anything from this thread it's that Jews come across as having a great sense of humour and dont take themselves too seriously.

You see that actually is quite racist. I'm guessing what you meant was: Davidmatzdorf is totally humourless and he takes himself way too seriously (which I agree with, but I do quite like him anyway).
 

dudu

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2011
5,314
11,048
But that means nothing. I could say I'm a Jedi and wear the robes and wave a broom stick around making really good swooshing sounds and everything. Get everyone I know to agree I'm a Jedi. But it's still not true.

Jews arnt a race.

Fair enough, race is definitely not the right word.
 

JimmyG2

SC Supporter
Dec 7, 2006
15,014
20,779
You see that actually is quite racist. I'm guessing what you meant was: Davidmatzdorf is totally humourless and he takes himself way too seriously (which I agree with, but I do quite like him anyway).
It's a good job somebody takes themselves seriously.
Need a few posters to exert some rigour into the proceedings.
Otherwise the whole thing deteriorates into
personal vendettas, one liners and numerous other website nasties.
Acts like a sweeper in the system ahead of the Mods in goal
clearing up false factoids and intercepting misinformation.
I like the boy.
Read the new stadium threads to see some of his match winning performances.
 

davidmatzdorf

Front Page Gadfly
Jun 7, 2004
18,106
45,030
Glad you're with me on the race thing finally.

I was from the start. You didn't read what I wrote.

Jews aren't a race. It's a belief system.

You really are not getting this. You are not Jewish - at all - you said so. Therefore you do not get to define who is a Jew and what Jewishness is, which is what the sentence above does - again. It's arrogant for you to keep insisting that you have this privilege. It is especially arrogant after you have demonstrated your lack of knowledge about the history and culture of our ethnic group. Please stop digging.

I'm sure you know but just for clarification, how many Jews do you accept as Jews are walking the Earth today?

I have no idea and don't really care, because it's not for me to define or 'accept' each other Jewish person's allegiance or self-definition. I could look up how many ethnically Jewish people there are in the world using Wikipedia, but so could you. I could probably also find out how many observant Jews there are, in various sects and degrees of orthodoxy, but those sects would disagree with each other about what constitutes an observant Jew.

Your whole approach to this is really strange and suspect. It mainly comes across as uncomfortable. You keep venturing into the debate and every sentence just sounds dissonant and clumsy, especially the repeated insistence, in the face of multiple people's cited evidence, that being Jewish is 'just a belief system'.
 
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rich75

Well-Known Member
Nov 9, 2004
7,591
3,215
If white people here started telling black or mixed race people that they 'aren't dark enough to be black', then we'd have a much-justified meltdown here.

So it isn't OK for non-Jews to define what it is to be Jewish. We get to define ourselves and, for a very substantial number of us - in Israel it is a majority - the definition is entirely outside the question of 'religion' or 'faith' or 'observance'. There is a complex mix of culture, ethnicity, heredity and history and, for some people, there is also religion.

But you guys don't get to tell us whether we're Jewish or not. We get to tell you and you get to say 'OK'.

My grandparents were totally secular and they were Jewish enough for the Nazis to steal their business, imprison them and kill them.

Nowadays we get to decide whether we're Jewish. No one else.
As I understand it, Jewishness is passed on via the mother and not the father. That would seem to be a religiously orientated way of defining the passing on of racial characteristics. If you were of a race as commonly understood then fathers would also pass on those racial characteristics.

So yes, you can make an impassioned plea about who gets to define you but it's based on a religious idea and not a scientific one.
 

Mustard

Well-Known Member
Nov 14, 2012
10,781
20,141
I was from the start. You didn't read what I wrote.



You really are not getting this. You are not Jewish - at all - you said so. Therefore you do not get to define who is a Jew and what Jewishness is, which is what the sentence above does - again. It's arrogant for you to keep insisting that you have this privilege. It is especially arrogant after you have demonstrated your lack of knowledge about the history and culture of our ethnic group. Please stop digging.



I have no idea and don't really care, because it's not for me to define or 'accept' each other Jewish person's allegiance or self-definition. I could look up how many ethnically Jewish people there are in the world using Wikipedia, but do could you. I could probably also find out how many observant Jews there are, in various sects and degrees of orthodoxy, but those sects would disagree with each other about what constitutes an observant Jew.

Your whole approach to this is really strange and suspect. It mainly comes across as uncomfortable. You keep venturing into the debate and every sentence just sounds dissonant and clumsy, especially the repeated insistence, in the face of multiple people's cited evidence, that being Jewish is 'just a belief system'.



Suspect?

Are you accusing me of being an anti-Semite now?

I'm not trying to define anything. You are being defensive and obtuse. Your usual approach tbf.

Not everyone is out to get you mate.
 

Archibald&Crooks

Aegina Expat
Admin
Feb 1, 2005
55,592
205,123
Suspect?

Are you accusing me of being an anti-Semite now?

I'm not trying to define anything. You are being defensive and obtuse. Your usual approach tbf.

Not everyone is out to get you mate.

That being the case, what's this?

What you can't do though is call Jews a race of people. Well you can but it would make you incorrect. Its like calling Muslims a race.

??
 

CosmicHotspur

Better a wag than a WAG
Aug 14, 2006
51,069
22,383
Except in very orthodox circles, it's all getting pretty watered down these days. I have two nephews who married "out" and although both of their wives adopted Judaism, their children would not be considered Jewish in strictly religious echelons even though they have all had barmitzvahs and batmitzvahs and consider themself to be Jewish.

One of my nieces married out too but her two boys, who are a quarter Cypriot, are considered Jewish by bloodline.

To me it's all ridiculous and it's just one of the things I don't agree with but then I am completely anti-religion anyway. It causes more problems than it solves.

If we could all believe in some kind of higher power without giving it a label or simply live our lives spiritually, honestly and genuinely caring about the world and everyone and everything in it the world would be a much better place.
 

talkshowhost86

Mod-Moose
Staff
Oct 2, 2004
48,191
47,195
Except in very orthodox circles, it's all getting pretty watered down these days. I have two nephews who married "out" and although both of their wives adopted Judaism, their children would not be considered Jewish in strictly religious echelons even though they have all had barmitzvahs and batmitzvahs and consider themself to be Jewish.

One of my nieces married out too but her two boys, who are a quarter Cypriot, are considered Jewish by bloodline.

To me it's all ridiculous and it's just one of the things I don't agree with but then I am completely anti-religion anyway. It causes more problems than it solves.

If we could all believe in some kind of higher power without giving it a label or simply live our lives spiritually, honestly and genuinely caring about the world and everyone and everything in it the world would be a much better place.

Hippy
 

Archibald&Crooks

Aegina Expat
Admin
Feb 1, 2005
55,592
205,123
Surely that's the opposite of defining something?
The powers that be see it differently. But then that happens a lot when you stick your oar in.

This thread is almost done now.

Baddiel? Stick the boot in, if you must. The rest of it we can probably do without.
 

CosmicHotspur

Better a wag than a WAG
Aug 14, 2006
51,069
22,383
The powers that be see it differently. But then that happens a lot when you stick your oar in.

This thread is almost done now.

Baddiel? Stick the boot in, if you must. The rest of it we can probably do without.


Well off-topic but that reminded me of "I can do without the rock and roll." :D
 

southlondonyiddo

My eyes have seen some of the glory..
Nov 8, 2004
12,631
15,107
Can we lock this religious, ethnic, racial, racist thread

I'm still confused as shit and pretty much none the wiser

What I do know is that come 5.30 tomorrow at WHL I'll still be hearing the hissing noises from a certain section of the Chelski section and the witty little ditty Spurs are on their way to Auschwitz as a response of our hopeful return to Wembley


Football huh, don't you just love it....,
 

MyNameIsNicolaBerti

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2013
2,035
3,834
Well, I'm a Jew. I don't personally use the Yid word but I do eat pork. Why? Because being Jewish is both a question of ethnicity and religion. I don't use the word Yid because it was used against my grandfather regularly after he came to this country and that use was as an ethnic slur. I do not, however, believe in organised religion, therefore I eat pork, shellfish, et al. Why? Because you cannot change your ethnicity but following religion is a lifestyle choice. Therefore I see no issue in what Baddiel has said and I find it amusing that the OP is trying to decide the extent of "Jewishness" in another.

Having said all that, I still dislike Baddiel. Not because of the extent to which he embraces his background (which, if anyone has seen The Infidel, he is happy to mock) but because he had a go at our fans about Yid, while turning a blind eye to the disgusting gas chamber chants of Arsenal, West Ham and his beloved Chelsea. That's disgusting double standard shit and it has nothing to do with how Jewish he is.
 

MyNameIsNicolaBerti

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2013
2,035
3,834
As I understand it, Jewishness is passed on via the mother and not the father. That would seem to be a religiously orientated way of defining the passing on of racial characteristics. If you were of a race as commonly understood then fathers would also pass on those racial characteristics.

So yes, you can make an impassioned plea about who gets to define you but it's based on a religious idea and not a scientific one.
Actually it is a combination of ethnicity, religion and tradition. While the concept does indeed draw from scripture, it is a generally accepted principle that one can be a Jew if your mother is a Jew, yet still be an atheist where religion is concerned. Plus, passing on genes is obviously a practical question of ethnicity and not one of religion. However the principle began, the fact is that for centuries now the lineage of Jews has been an ethnic one, save for the small minority of converts to Judaism. Therefore, in practical terms again, most Jews share a Semitic commonality and heritage and are as much an ethnic group as a religious one.
 

rich75

Well-Known Member
Nov 9, 2004
7,591
3,215
Actually it is a combination of ethnicity, religion and tradition. While the concept does indeed draw from scripture, it is a generally accepted principle that one can be a Jew if your mother is a Jew, yet still be an atheist where religion is concerned. Plus, passing on genes is obviously a practical question of ethnicity and not one of religion. However the principle began, the fact is that for centuries now the lineage of Jews has been an ethnic one, save for the small minority of converts to Judaism. Therefore, in practical terms again, most Jews share a Semitic commonality and heritage and are as much an ethnic group as a religious one.
As indeed do many not identified as Jews possess the same commonality. They're excluded due to religious reasoning that has itself changed tack several times over the centuries from male lineage to female lineage to both parents ( as long as you make a song and dance about being Jewish in public ) to God knows what else.

The point remains that the current definition of what qualifies someone as Jewish is a: varied depending on which Jew you talk to and b: religiously derived. It's also added onto centuries of altering ideas of said qualification and in marrying of non Jews.

It's probably true to say that the majority of those currently identifying as Jewish hold some kind of common racial characteristic but it's completely non exclusive to them and also possessed by a large proportion of the population at large. I have Jewish ancestry but am not considered Jewish as my mother wasn't. It's a nonsense to define racial characteristics on the whims of a religious edict. Either someone carries the requisite combinations of dna or they don't. Some blokes interpretation of some words written thousands of years ago cannot supercede that.
 

southlondonyiddo

My eyes have seen some of the glory..
Nov 8, 2004
12,631
15,107
Big nose, he's got a fucking big nose, he's got a fucking big nose, he's got a fucking big nose

Wordsworth and Keats really couldn't do better

It doesn't matter which way you cut it he's Chelsea and we are Tottenham and our tribes have very different ways at looking at things! We've always been 'pretty' liberal as a group of supporters and like West Ham & Millwall, Chelsea have pretty much had a large following of racist scum ****s

YIDS
 

Dundalk_Spur

The only Spur in the village
Jul 17, 2008
4,956
7,691
Well, I'm a Jew. I don't personally use the Yid word but I do eat pork. Why? Because being Jewish is both a question of ethnicity and religion. I don't use the word Yid because it was used against my grandfather regularly after he came to this country and that use was as an ethnic slur. I do not, however, believe in organised religion, therefore I eat pork, shellfish, et al. Why? Because you cannot change your ethnicity but following religion is a lifestyle choice. Therefore I see no issue in what Baddiel has said and I find it amusing that the OP is trying to decide the extent of "Jewishness" in another.

Having said all that, I still dislike Baddiel. Not because of the extent to which he embraces his background (which, if anyone has seen The Infidel, he is happy to mock) but because he had a go at our fans about Yid, while turning a blind eye to the disgusting gas chamber chants of Arsenal, West Ham and his beloved Chelsea. That's disgusting double standard shit and it has nothing to do with how Jewish he is.

I am not "trying to decide the extent of anyones Jewishness".

I was just highlighting the hypocrisy of this guy.

My fathers company used to publish his books, and I am currently looking at a proof copy of one of his early books. He is not above making iffy comments about jews and the jewish faith. His attack on the "Y" word was so heavily skewed against our club, and by association each of us, that it leaves a bad taste in the mouth every time he is on tv etc. That is how I feel and I am sure other feel the same.

If a black comedian campaigned against the "N" word and then used it in acts and novels would he be any better or worse than Baddeil?
 
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