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Spurs hater David Baddeil in "not that Jewish" shocker!!!!

rich75

Well-Known Member
Nov 9, 2004
7,591
3,215
I
I am not "trying to decide the extent of anyones Jewishness".

I was just highlighting the hypocrisy of this guy.

My fathers company used to publish his books, and I am currently looking at a proof copy of one of his early books. He is not above making iffy comments about jews and the jewish faith. His attack on the "Y" word was so heavily skewed against our club, and by association each of us, that it leaves a bad taste in the mouth every time he is on tv etc. That is how I feel and I am sure other feel the same.

If a black comedian campaigned against the "N" word and then used it in acts and novels would he be any better or worse than Baddeil?
I don't think it was anything to do with his feelings towards Spurs. If anything it was an argument to deprive chelsea fans ( or whoever ) of an excuse to use yid as a term of offence. The one argument against this is the " don't wear sexy clothes if you don't want sexual attention" line is bollocks. ie it shouldn't be Spurs issue but opposing clubs to stop it.
 

Bulletspur

The Reasonable Advocate
Match Thread Admin
Oct 17, 2006
10,690
25,246
I

I don't think it was anything to do with his feelings towards Spurs. If anything it was an argument to deprive chelsea fans ( or whoever ) of an excuse to use yid as a term of offence. The one argument against this is the " don't wear sexy clothes if you don't want sexual attention" line is bollocks. ie it shouldn't be Spurs issue but opposing clubs to stop it.
Continue to tell yourself that.
 

davidmatzdorf

Front Page Gadfly
Jun 7, 2004
18,106
45,030
I've read this entire thread, most of it more than once. I think every single self-declared Jew who has expressed a view has stated bluntly and clearly that being Jewish is a mixture of ethnicity, religion, culture and heritage.

But we're on page 8 and we still have non-Jews swaggering in here to tell us that we're 'only a matter of religious belief'. You couldn't make this shit up.

If I tried that kind of tack with feminists, LBGTQI people or black people, I'd get absolutely roasted. But, for some reason, people think it's OK for non-Jewish people to define Jewishness. Fucking cheek.
 

Spurger King

can't smile without glue
Jul 22, 2008
43,881
95,147
I've read this entire thread, most of it more than once. I think every single self-declared Jew who has expressed a view has stated bluntly and clearly that being Jewish is a mixture of ethnicity, religion, culture and heritage.

But we're on page 8 and we still have non-Jews swaggering in here to tell us that we're 'only a matter of religious belief'. You couldn't make this shit up.

If I tried that kind of tack with feminists, LBGTQI people or black people, I'd get absolutely roasted. But, for some reason, people think it's OK for non-Jewish people to define Jewishness. Fucking cheek.

I think you'll find that Jewishness is an old, old wooden ship that was used during the Civil War era.
 

Bulletspur

The Reasonable Advocate
Match Thread Admin
Oct 17, 2006
10,690
25,246
I've read this entire thread, most of it more than once. I think every single self-declared Jew who has expressed a view has stated bluntly and clearly that being Jewish is a mixture of ethnicity, religion, culture and heritage.

But we're on page 8 and we still have non-Jews swaggering in here to tell us that we're 'only a matter of religious belief'. You couldn't make this shit up.

If I tried that kind of tack with feminists, LBGTQI people or black people, I'd get absolutely roasted. But, for some reason, people think it's OK for non-Jewish people to define Jewishness. Fucking cheek.
Obviously you are offended and I empathise. As a black person, I hate it when non blacks try to define (with good intentions mind you) who I am and how I must feel with regard to Black issues etc. Like you implying that black has anything to do with religious beliefs. A lot of the comments on here, including mine, are born of ignorance. So from a non Jew to a Jew what in your opinion defines a Jew? Serious question.
 
Last edited:

LexingtonSpurs

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2013
13,456
39,042
I've read this entire thread, most of it more than once. I think every single self-declared Jew who has expressed a view has stated bluntly and clearly that being Jewish is a mixture of ethnicity, religion, culture and heritage.

But we're on page 8 and we still have non-Jews swaggering in here to tell us that we're 'only a matter of religious belief'. You couldn't make this shit up.

If I tried that kind of tack with feminists, LBGTQI people or black people, I'd get absolutely roasted. But, for some reason, people think it's OK for non-Jewish people to define Jewishness. Fucking cheek.
Well, to be fair, being black has nothing to do with "religious belief"
 

davidmatzdorf

Front Page Gadfly
Jun 7, 2004
18,106
45,030
Obviously you are offended and I empathise. As a black person, I hate it when non blacks try to define (with good intentions mind you) who I am and how I must feel with regard to Black issues etc. Like you implying that black has anything to do with religious beliefs. A lot of the comments on here, including mine, are born of ignorance. So from a non Jew to a Jew what in your opinion defines a Jew? Serious question.

I tend to agree with Stephen Fry's views on the topic of 'being offended', but I'm certainly irritated by the level of arrogance on show and by the sweeping blitheness of that arrogance.

I've written in several different forms of words on this thread that I don't think it's appropriate to produce a tidy 'definition' of Jewishness. It's something that we can allow people to self-define. We don't have to worry about the silly straw-man arguments based on comments like 'well I could say I'm an Eskimo but it doesn't make me one'. They reduce the discussion to absurdity, which is indeed their purpose, because there isn't a proper counter-argument to self-definition.

The best any of us can do is to say that it's 'a mix of ethnicity, heredity, culture, tradition, place, and in many cases religion'. That's what several of us have written on this thread, in remarkably similar language, but we're still being challenged to 'define' ourselves. How that mixture of ethnicity, religion, etc., is apportioned in each person is diverse and I can't see why people won't just accept that and settle for a broad, inclusive definition. Instead, I keep getting challenged to 'define Jewishness', which seems to mean 'tell me how I can decide who should be excluded' or 'tell me how I can tell who is really a Jew when I meet one'.

You don't have to have a Jewish mother. You don't have to be religious. You don't have to speak Yiddish. You don't have to wave your hands about and shrug your shoulders when you speak. But they all help.

I'm sure you have experienced the analogous debate about 'how mixed race you have to be before you can call yourself Black', which has its racist spin ('only takes one drop') and its solidarity spin ('politically Black'). People who could classify themselves as Black tend to be criticised if they classify themselves as White - so why are we seeing the opposite for people who want to classify themselves as Jewish, but are being lectured at by non-Jews that they can't be, because they aren't religious? It's inconsistent, it's hypocritical and it's arrogant [not aimed at you].

The other two posts I wrote that are relevant are these:

http://spurscommunity.co.uk/index.p...hat-jewish-shocker.115027/page-4#post-4402540

http://spurscommunity.co.uk/index.p...hat-jewish-shocker.115027/page-5#post-4402920
 

MyNameIsNicolaBerti

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2013
2,035
3,834
As indeed do many not identified as Jews possess the same commonality. They're excluded due to religious reasoning that has itself changed tack several times over the centuries from male lineage to female lineage to both parents ( as long as you make a song and dance about being Jewish in public ) to God knows what else.

The point remains that the current definition of what qualifies someone as Jewish is a: varied depending on which Jew you talk to and b: religiously derived. It's also added onto centuries of altering ideas of said qualification and in marrying of non Jews.

It's probably true to say that the majority of those currently identifying as Jewish hold some kind of common racial characteristic but it's completely non exclusive to them and also possessed by a large proportion of the population at large. I have Jewish ancestry but am not considered Jewish as my mother wasn't. It's a nonsense to define racial characteristics on the whims of a religious edict. Either someone carries the requisite combinations of dna or they don't. Some blokes interpretation of some words written thousands of years ago cannot supercede that.
You are the one choosing to define it as a religious edict and nothing else.

My point was that whether or not it originated by virtue of religion, the fact is that the vast majority of Jews share a genetic trait and are therefore of a shared ethnicity.

Do you dispute that?
 

MyNameIsNicolaBerti

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2013
2,035
3,834
I've read this entire thread, most of it more than once. I think every single self-declared Jew who has expressed a view has stated bluntly and clearly that being Jewish is a mixture of ethnicity, religion, culture and heritage.

But we're on page 8 and we still have non-Jews swaggering in here to tell us that we're 'only a matter of religious belief'. You couldn't make this shit up.

If I tried that kind of tack with feminists, LBGTQI people or black people, I'd get absolutely roasted. But, for some reason, people think it's OK for non-Jewish people to define Jewishness. Fucking cheek.
Frankly I think it is disgusting...and you realise that they are, at least in part. the very same people who no doubt claim that the use of the "yid" word is showing solidarity with Jews!

It would be supremely laughable if it weren't inherently offensive.
 

CosmicHotspur

Better a wag than a WAG
Aug 14, 2006
51,069
22,383
I tend to agree with Stephen Fry's views on the topic of 'being offended', but I'm certainly irritated by the level of arrogance on show and by the sweeping blitheness of that arrogance.

I've written in several different forms of words on this thread that I don't think it's appropriate to produce a tidy 'definition' of Jewishness. It's something that we can allow people to self-define. We don't have to worry about the silly straw-man arguments based on comments like 'well I could say I'm an Eskimo but it doesn't make me one'. They reduce the discussion to absurdity, which is indeed their purpose, because there isn't a proper counter-argument to self-definition.

The best any of us can do is to say that it's 'a mix of ethnicity, heredity, culture, tradition, place, and in many cases religion'. That's what several of us have written on this thread, in remarkably similar language, but we're still being challenged to 'define' ourselves. How that mixture of ethnicity, religion, etc., is apportioned in each person is diverse and I can't see why people won't just accept that and settle for a broad, inclusive definition. Instead, I keep getting challenged to 'define Jewishness', which seems to mean 'tell me how I can decide who should be excluded' or 'tell me how I can tell who is really a Jew when I meet one'.

You don't have to have a Jewish mother. You don't have to be religious. You don't have to speak Yiddish. You don't have to wave your hands about and shrug your shoulders when you speak. But they all help.

I'm sure you have experienced the analogous debate about 'how mixed race you have to be before you can call yourself Black', which has its racist spin ('only takes one drop') and its solidarity spin ('politically Black'). People who could classify themselves as Black tend to be criticised if they classify themselves as White - so why are we seeing the opposite for people who want to classify themselves as Jewish, but are being lectured at by non-Jews that they can't be, because they aren't religious? It's inconsistent, it's hypocritical and it's arrogant [not aimed at you].

The other two posts I wrote that are relevant are these:

http://spurscommunity.co.uk/index.p...hat-jewish-shocker.115027/page-4#post-4402540

http://spurscommunity.co.uk/index.p...hat-jewish-shocker.115027/page-5#post-4402920
smiley shrug.gif
;)
 

TheChosenOne

A dislike or neg rep = fat fingers
Dec 13, 2005
47,876
49,712
As a young Irish boy educated in the English Catholic faith during the 1960's we were told prima facie that it was the Jews who caused JC to be executed by the Romans.

What else can I say . There were no mitigating circumstances and no appeals. Guilty as charged and eternally damned.
 

davidmatzdorf

Front Page Gadfly
Jun 7, 2004
18,106
45,030
As a young Irish boy educated in the English Catholic faith during the 1960's we were told prima facie that it was the Jews who caused JC to be executed by the Romans.

What else can I say . There were no mitigating circumstances and no appeals. Guilty as charged and eternally damned.

A significant amount of the lifelong chip on my shoulder about these issues derives directly from having to share a schoolbus with the Italian/Polish/Irish-American Catholic kids on their way to the local parochial school when I was a young boy in New York State. The nuns taught them that 'the Jews killed Jesus' and I got an inexcusable amount of grief about this: chants, insults, personal abuse and bullying. There were very few Jewish families in the town when I was very young, although there was an influx of Jews from New York City as I grew up.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
I've read this entire thread, most of it more than once. I think every single self-declared Jew who has expressed a view has stated bluntly and clearly that being Jewish is a mixture of ethnicity, religion, culture and heritage.

But we're on page 8 and we still have non-Jews swaggering in here to tell us that we're 'only a matter of religious belief'. You couldn't make this shit up.

If I tried that kind of tack with feminists, LBGTQI people or black people, I'd get absolutely roasted. But, for some reason, people think it's OK for non-Jewish people to define Jewishness. Fucking cheek.

Who are LBGTQI's ?
 

davidmatzdorf

Front Page Gadfly
Jun 7, 2004
18,106
45,030
Who are LBGTQI's ?

I was waiting for that. I recommend Google, which I suspect you have already used, thus making your post an act of spite or mischief, to which I will nevertheless play a 'straight' bat.

Lesbian Bisexual Gay Transgender Queer Intersex

Shorthand for everyone who isn't in conformity with what is sexually conventional.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
A significant amount of the lifelong chip on my shoulder about these issues derives directly from having to share a schoolbus with the Italian/Polish/Irish-American Catholic kids on their way to the local parochial school when I was a young boy in New York State. The nuns taught them that 'the Jews killed Jesus' and I got an inexcusable amount of grief about this: chants, insults, personal abuse and bullying. There were very few Jewish families in the town when I was very young, although there was an influx of Jews from New York City as I grew up.

Killing Jesus piffle, you try telling 2006 generation SpursCommunity that Dawson is in fact a little bit shit.
 

stevenurse

Palacios' neck fat
May 14, 2007
6,089
10,022
Sexual, political or religious beliefs don't belong anywhere near football. let's just all agree he's a **** and close the thread.
 

TheChosenOne

A dislike or neg rep = fat fingers
Dec 13, 2005
47,876
49,712
A significant amount of the lifelong chip on my shoulder about these issues derives directly from having to share a schoolbus with the Italian/Polish/Irish-American Catholic kids on their way to the local parochial school when I was a young boy in New York State. The nuns taught them that 'the Jews killed Jesus' and I got an inexcusable amount of grief about this: chants, insults, personal abuse and bullying. There were very few Jewish families in the town when I was very young, although there was an influx of Jews from New York City as I grew up.

For once, and probably only once David, we can agree, I can only apologise for the thoughts that I had .. We were force fed to me through normal mainstream education at that time. We didn't know but were expected to take up the cause of Rome versus 'them Jews'
 
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