Spurs U21’s, U18’s and other youth news – 2015/16 Edition

[spurs9]

Well, KWP, Winks, might not have merited significant minutes, but some would have been nice. Pritchard (ignoring the 7 minutes he'd got in the last game under Sherwood) should have got significantly more than his "none" and Onomah should have got more.

Even in the cups (definitely) and Europa league (if we weren't going to take it seriously once we got to R16) we could have given debuts or varying degrees of more time to those above and others like CCV & Harrison.

My point is, again, Poch is getting a lot of kudos for "giving youth a chance". But very little of it is our - highly regarded - youth. And it was the same last year, which is why we lost Veljkovic, who could have been an excellent back up for Dier/Alderweireld this season and beyond if he'd been given the deserved chance last season after playing well in pre-season.

I don't know what the future will bring, but I hope it brings more chances than our own academy players got this season, even if it's in cup games.

Otherwise we can hardly moan if players like Edwards start looking elsewhere and thinking, actually, I might stand more chance of promotion at another club.

What Emenalo said was a bit disingenuous but not totally without foundation.

Pritchard got 5 mins in the only game he was available due to injury.

 

[nssmuckers]

Winks has to be getting first team minutes next season...he's an incredibly smart footballer who doesn't have the athletic shortcomings of Carroll. Much better discipline and defensive positioning. More energy.

Honestly when Dembele is out we don't really have a central midfielder who is comfortable on the ball in his own half. Nabil was that player last season and maybe he still can be, but Winks has so much composure I think he could rotate into our midfield next season.

We don't need a super creative central midfielder...we just need someone who can receive the ball in his own half and get it to Eriksen without shitting himself or falling over.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Pritchard got 5 mins in the only game he was available due to injury.

But could have had a shitload more if not sent on a ludicrous loan.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

BC said EPL mins to players from their own academy that previously hadn't had any. Your stats are all comps and several of those players have previously players in other seasons (RLC & Perriera for example) and some (Iheanacho) were signed at 18.

For EPL only:
Spurs - 31
Man City - 23
Chelsea - 255
Man Utd - 1441
Liverpool - 242
West Ham - 207
Southampton - 0

I did also mention the cups, and I think they are even more relevant as they are the easiest fixtures to play kids in.

But even that EPL list had us behind most I mentioned, and that's without considering others in the league.

 

[spurs9]

I did also mention the cups, and I think they are even more relevant as they are the easiest fixtures to play kids in.

But even that EPL list had us behind most I mentioned, and that's without considering others in the league.

What does that prove though?

 

[THFCSPURS19]

Well, KWP, Winks, might not have merited significant minutes, but some would have been nice. Pritchard (ignoring the 7 minutes he'd got in the last game under Sherwood) should have got significantly more than his "none" and Onomah should have got more.

Even in the cups (definitely) and Europa league (if we weren't going to take it seriously once we got to R16) we could have given debuts or varying degrees of more time to those above and others like CCV & Harrison.

My point is, again, Poch is getting a lot of kudos for "giving youth a chance". But very little of it is our - highly regarded - youth. And it was the same last year, which is why we lost Veljkovic, who could have been an excellent back up for Dier/Alderweireld this season and beyond if he'd been given the deserved chance last season after playing well in pre-season.

I don't know what the future will bring, but I hope it brings more chances than our own academy players got this season, even if it's in cup games.

Otherwise we can hardly moan if players like Edwards start looking elsewhere and thinking, actually, I might stand more chance of promotion at another club.

What Emenalo said was a bit disingenuous but not totally without foundation.

I agree about the cups, but you said PL minutes, so that's what I'm going with.

As others have said, I think this season was too early for KWP in the PL. He struggled physically against some Australian side at the end of last season, so he wouldn't have been able to cope with the PL this season IMO.

Pritchard was injured a lot- to an extent where I can't actually remember when he wasn't injured- so it was always going to be difficult for him to warrant a place above other players. Again, he could've got more minutes in the cups but we're talking about the PL.

Not sure Onomah has necessarily deserved more PL minutes this season.

Veljkovic didn't leave because we didn't give academy players a chance in general, he left because Poch specifically didn't like him, which is different.

I think sometimes people want us to play more academy players for the sake of it, even if it isn't the logical decision.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

But could have had a shitload more if not sent on a ludicrous loan.

Do you honestly think Pritchard would have broken into the side, let alone the bench? Pochettino said this week that N'Jie was fit last week, but was behind loads of players so wasn't on the bench. It was the same with Pritchard, so even though I was against the loan, I can see the logic to it more now.

 

[Sweech]

Pritchard's a hard one to claim that he 100% would have got minutes if he wasn't loaned out as he went and got injured again on said loan. Considering the season he's had I'm not sure another injury wouldn't have happened here as well.

The loan was stupid though. I still think he would have been best served going to a Championship side and playing 90 minutes every match.

 

[Cornpattbuck]

Genuinely stumped by the over critical, nitpicking tone that some in this thread have taken recently, just as we've become the best team we've been in god knows how long with the youngest team in the league. Bizarre.

 

[edson]

TBH the southampton academy isn't that impressive imo or hasnt been since most of the guys left, going to fulham and another 2 getting sacked

I would think Man Utd top the list and Chelsea wouldn't be that high but over the next 3 seasons imo that will change, it seemed Kane would get a chance next season but that seems to gone out of the window now that he has done his cruciate ligaments.

Fuck might as well check

Chelsea
640mins to RLC, 380mins to Traore and 20mins to Salter. Total 1040mins

Man City
900mins to Iheanacho, 360mins to some other players and if you are being kind you can add another 90-180 for two new u21 players. Total 1260mins

Arsenal
940mins to Iwobi, 60mins to Kamara, 30mins to jeff. If you're being kind you could add another 100mins for brought players who are in the academy this season.

Man Utd
This season they have given 1000mins to Rashford, 800mins to Borthwick-Jackson, 400mins to Fosu-Mensah, 400mins to McNair, 370mins to Perriera and 300mins to Love, Riley and Wilson. So in total 3270mins to academy/u21 players.

Tottenham
470mins to Onomah and 20mins to Winks.

Liverpool
410mins to Randall, 340mins to Brannagan, 210mins to Chirivella, 200mins to Rossiter, 190mins to Ojo and 150mins to the rest. Total 1500mins. (Not including Ibe he was out on loan to a championship club and then joined the first team no longer a u21 player. Though he has been relegated recently)

Southampton
1570 mins to Targett and 30mins to Reed

Now I will do West Ham since you said
490mins to Oxford, 330mins to other players. Total 820mins

Now its worth noting this list doesn't include Bentaleb as I applied the same logic as with Ibe and Bellerin, both young but are first team players and trying to break the barrier.

Also doesn't include Mason, Carroll and Pritchard but they are over 21 and no longer eligible

Not PL minutes but Harrison imo would be a better option at striker than our attacking midfielders up front, not to mention against the lesser teams and Oduwa imo would have been better than Onomah out wide however he has gone from a good preseason to rock bottom after two poor loans

Agree about Southampton academy I have watch a lot of games ageist them at u18s u21s and u16s and in resent times and I been very underwhelmed by them even though they won a few.The club who has impressed me from what i have seen is Fulham they have some very good players and should be bringing them through to the first team at some point.

 

[Cornpattbuck]

P.s. For what it's worth, I reckon Poch had more ambitious plans for some of our youngsters this season but the title challenge came a year earlier than expected.

He clearly has a lot of time for Onomah, Winks, KWP, Harrison and, yes, Pritchard (who had an unfortunate injury that scuppered his season).

 

[Doomchicken]

Genuinely stumped by the over critical, nitpicking tone that some in this thread have taken recently, just as we've become the best team we've been in god knows how long with the youngest team in the league. Bizarre.

When people feel like moaning, they can't moan about the first team, so they go for the youth team.

 

[beats1]

BC said EPL mins to players from their own academy that previously hadn't had any. Your stats are all comps and several of those players have previously players in other seasons (RLC & Perriera for example) and some (Iheanacho) were signed at 18.

For EPL only:
Spurs - 31
Man City - 23
Chelsea - 255
Man Utd - 1441
Liverpool - 242
West Ham - 207
Southampton - 0

Neither RLC or Perriera had broken through and still play in the U21 so I counted them

Also I checked all of them to see when they were signed so the only reason Iheanacho was probably was included was because he was signed during his 17th year season and played in the FA youth cup, which is competition for second years but the rest are definitely signed before or on their 17th birthday

Genuinely stumped by the over critical, nitpicking tone that some in this thread have taken recently, just as we've become the best team we've been in god knows how long with the youngest team in the league. Bizarre.

P.s. For what it's worth, I reckon Poch had more ambitious plans for some of our youngsters this season but the title challenge came a year earlier than expected.

He clearly has a lot of time for Onomah, Winks, KWP, Harrison and, yes, Pritchard (who had an unfortunate injury that scuppered his season).

When people feel like moaning, they can't moan about the first team, so they go for the youth team.

Explain to me where I stated that Poch should have picked more youngsters?

I didnt, I even said I don't blame poch for not playing more except in the cup matches when we had no striker and chose to play AM's there (when it never worked) and Oduwa because Onomah doesn't look comfortable out of position(it would have been better for him to go out on loan).

To say I'm moaning just because I want to moan is silly. Im over the moon that we could win our first title and don't think Poch could be blamed for anything to do with the league bar some rotational issues in the cup.

Our youth players at the moment are a clear disadvantage. If things aren't great in the youth teams, don't expect me to say well we are second so fuck the youth team.

Our players in the youth team are neither playing for the first team nor been sent out on loan. There is a fear that they will be left behind. Of course people wont care as long as the first team does well but it doesn't make sense to have an academy and put your players at a disadvantage.

If you want to read some positive shit go to the Race to the title thread, Im sure many of you guys will be happy with my tone there

 

[Richthfc79]

The longer this saga goes on with Edwards the more I think he might get poached by Chelsea or Arsenal who are prepared to pay silly money. Part of me thinks that levy should just pay what he wants to keep him as he looks a great prospect and might come back to haunt us in the future. But the other part of me thinks he should look at what poch does and gives youngsters chances and not just chase big contract. Will it upset squad harmony if a youth player is getting more than Carroll, onomah etc.

 

[RichieS]

Enjoyable video. Reminds me of Carrick the way he uses both feet to get himself out of tight situations. If this is a standard performance for him then he's clearly ready for a higher level than U21 football.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Do you honestly think Pritchard would have broken into the side, let alone the bench? Pochettino said this week that N'Jie was fit last week, but was behind loads of players so wasn't on the bench. It was the same with Pritchard, so even though I was against the loan, I can see the logic to it more now.

If he was fit enough to go on loan the why wouldn't he have been fit enough to play for us. We were still in cup competitions too.

What does that prove though?

That Pochettino isn't giving many minutes to our own academy players - and not as many as many teams around us. Which is what I said - and Emenalo said, that many poured scorn on.

Look, lets praise Pochettino for all the good he is doing, and there is plenty of good, I've been very fulsome with my praise for the guy, his methods and what we are achieving as a team, the vast majority of which I lay at his door, but lets also be honest and admit that he's not actually given much time to our own academy players (other than the already established Kane) this season whilst doing it.

Maybe I was wrong to highlight the paucity of use in the EPL, I might not agree with everything he does in the EPL - re selection (and not just kids) - but results and our position makes any of my criticism moot to a point.

But surely we could have used the cups to provide much more minutes to a number of very promising development players, which would have served multi purposes including giving the kids experience whilst at the same time resting vital senior players.

I am still mystified by our approach in the Europa for example, where we risked and fatigued vital first team players continually for the first 8 games, then to decide the R16 against a really strong team to play our weakest team.

Don't know why players like CCV, KWP, Winks, Onomah, Oduwa, Harrison and Pritchard (if kept instead of packed off to not play for West Brom) didn't play or be on the bench more often or at all.

Eriksen was started in both Leicester cup games and Colchester cup game. Why risk him and add another 270 minutes to the clock - immediately after our busiest time of the season?

Onomah could definitely have been started in his stead in the second two of those games (he was started in the first as well as Eriksen).

Pritchard was fit by then (certainly the latter two and Palace game) I think (hence going on loan) and could have played in all of them instead of Eriksen, or with Onomah.

In the Leicester replay and Colchester games we played two lefties Carroll and Bentaleb, why not play Winks with Bentaleb in those games ? Not only giving Winks experience but maybe giving us better balance.

And in all those games and the first 8 Europa why not play or give bench to more kids?



As it stands we have learnt very little about Onomah (who has rarely been played in his optimum position when started at all), nothing about Winks, Pritchard, or KWP, Oduwa, Harrison, CCV.

If we had learnt something about these players it could have had an effect on our transfer strategy for this summer, saved us money and maybe meant we could have used what money we do have more prudently.

 

[Blake Griffin]

hi guys, i just uploaded an edwards comp, enjoy

 

[THFCSPURS19]

If he was fit enough to go on loan the why wouldn't he have been fit enough to play for us. We were still in cup competitions too.

I wasn't saying that. I was saying that it would have been very difficult for Pritchard to have broken into the 18 ahead of other players, so there was logic behind the loan.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I wasn't saying that. I was saying that it would have been very difficult for Pritchard to have broken into the 18 ahead of other players, so there was logic behind the loan.

But if we'd kept him, he could have played in the cup games and if he did well in them could have forced his way into the EPL squads etc.

The loan to West Brom was ridiculous, we could all see that instantly. A terrible fit. More understandable if he'd gone somewhere that looked logical. But that didn't at all.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I agree about the cups, but you said PL minutes, so that's what I'm going with.

As others have said, I think this season was too early for KWP in the PL. He struggled physically against some Australian side at the end of last season, so he wouldn't have been able to cope with the PL this season IMO.

Just to pick up on this point, which I forgot, KWP had excellent games and didn't look physically out of place at all in those Australian games.