Spurs U21’s, U18’s and other youth news – 2015/16 Edition

[Spursidol]

David Hytner ‏@DaveHytner 14m14 minutes ago
Werder Bremen have confirmed the signing of Milos Veljkovic from Spurs. Poch just never rated him. Prefers Carter-Vickers #thfc

Regrettably think this will go down as a question for decades to come - 'who was the best player that Spurs ever let go from their academy ?' Possible answers being David Beckham, Graeme Souness or Milos Veljkovic.

Yup think he will go on to be a really top player. One of the worst mistakes Spurs have made in recent years.

Not a slight upon Carter-Vickers who is potentially excellent (but certainly one maybe two years behind in his development) or indeed Dominic Ball (again ahead of Carter-Vickers in terms of current development), but Veljkovic looked a class player playing at age 15 in a pre-season friendly (against Brighton ?) and hasn't changed since.

Hope he has a good career at Werder Bremen

 

[Spursidol]

We don't, of course, know his attitude. But we do know Poch's attitude to attitude. If he's an awkward so and so (he may not be, I grant, but Poch would know) then this is the right decision.

There has never been any whispers of attitude at all, just a very solid professional

 

[Spursidol]

Does anyone know if Riga will post the U15 matches? They should as they have posted all the other matches, would be extremely disappointed if they don't.

3 of our U15s' Riga Cup games against

Lommel United https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU7TalSOyJs…

Kaapo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGssMt3WtJA…

Rigas FA

Haven't seen the final go up yet or the 3rd of our group matches

 

[Spursidol]

Think Bowden and Clarke looked good in the first video. Clarke looks dangerous. Think Noni looked like he could play and also the CB I think Walcott, were the most impressive from that. Here is what I could work out

3 - Kane Patterson
16 - Maurizio Pochettino
6 - Jamie Bowden
8 - Anis Mehmeti
5 - Malachi Walcott
17 - Rayan Clarke
11 - Noni Mandeki
4 - Luis Binks (I think)
2 - Dequan Wilson-Braithwaite
18 - Djean Spencer (I think)
10 - Dilan Markanday
7 - Kamal De Bourg
12 - I think they called him Jarrell

Think almost all the players are our u14 side.

Are you able to ID any other players from of the other matches ?

 

[glospur]

You've got to trust Poch, he does seem to know what he's doing but I'll happily admit that I don't agree. No dig on CCV who is an excellent prospect but Milos was just...quality.

Hasn't there been rumours though that Poch doesn't have a problem with him and, in fact, actually wanted to involve him in the first team but he couldn't due to the rules the club has on players that wont sign a contract?

 

[longtimespur]

Hasn't there been rumours though that Poch doesn't have a problem with him and, in fact, actually wanted to involve him in the first team but he couldn't due to the rules the club has on players that wont sign a contract?

I seem to remember something along those lines too

 

[Spursidol]

Hasn't there been rumours though that Poch doesn't have a problem with him and, in fact, actually wanted to involve him in the first team but he couldn't due to the rules the club has on players that wont sign a contract?

Yup.

But I suspect its also to do with not much playing time - probably back to AVB who hardly played youth, Sherwood gave him 2 cameos (preferring Bentaleb who is better at going forward, but Veljkovic was the more highly rated of the two) and then Poch inherited a bloated squad and tried them all out, so the likes of Capoue was played rather than giving time to Veljkovic. Didn't help he was loaned in Poch's first year to Middlesboro who hardly played him (they had possibly the best defence on the Championship) and then loaned to Charlton where he was injured after the first game. so a wasted season.

 

[DEFchenkOE]

Surprised about Milos tbh even though it was on the cards, if you look at how Poch utilises Dier as holding midfield and dropping inbetween the cb's sometimes to sort of make a back 3, i think MV would have suited this role really well. So it is a shame, maybe not athletic enough.

 

[IGSpur]

Think almost all the players are our u14 side.

Are you able to ID any other players from of the other matches ?

1 - Joshua Oluwayemi (u15)
2 - Dequan Wilson-Braithwaite (u14)
3 - Kane Patterson (u15)
4 - Luis Binks (u14)
5 - Malachi Walcott (u14)
6 - Jamie Bowden (u15)
7 - Kamal De Bourg (u15)
8 - Anis Mehmeti (u15)
9 - Rafferty Pedder (u14)
10 - Dilan Markanday (u15)
11 - Noni Mandeki (u14)
12 - Unsure
13 - Unsure
14 - Christian Carter (u14)
15 - Joe Dearman (u14)
16 - Maurizio Pochettino (u15)
17 - Rayan Clarke (u15)
18 - D'jean Spencer (u15)
19 - Tarrelle something

Unsurprisingly Rayan Clarke won the best player award and Malachi Walcott who looked good won best defender

 

[THFCSPURS19]

Tottenham Hotspur ‏@SpursOfficial 6m6 minutes ago
.@GrantWard_ has signed a new contract until 2018. His loan at Rotherham is extended until the end of the season.

 

[Spursidol]

1 - Joshua Oluwayemi (u15)
2 - Dequan Wilson-Braithwaite (u14)
3 - Kane Patterson (u15)
4 - Luis Binks (u14)
5 - Malachi Walcott (u14)
6 - Jamie Bowden (u15)
7 - Kamal De Bourg (u15)
8 - Anis Mehmeti (u15)
9 - Rafferty Pedder (u14)
10 - Dilan Markanday (u15)
11 - Noni Mandeki (u14)
12 - Unsure
13 - Unsure
14 - Christian Carter (u14)
15 - Joe Dearman (u14)
16 - Maurizio Pochettino (u15)
17 - Rayan Clarke (u15)
18 - D'jean Spencer (u15)
19 - Tarrelle something

Unsurprisingly Rayan Clarke won the best player award and Malachi Walcott who looked good won best defender

wow, just wow. Takes the term 'Highly impressive' to new heights

 

[IGSpur]

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...-s-youth-prospects-writes-danny-a6842336.html

FA Cup fourth-round weekend means that Premier League managers will be under pressure again to pick youngsters. But from the top clubs few will, and for good reason. The young players we are producing are, for the most part, simply not good enough. And it is the fault of the clubs and their cultures.

Football is all about taking responsibility. It is about learning how to make decisions for yourself. The old apprentice system, which my generation of players came through in the 1990s, taught us this. We knew we had to work hard and learn from the senior players if we wanted to succeed in the game.

I fear that the modern generation are being let down by the system. Rather than blaming foreign players, who I learned a lot from, we need to ask why our youngsters are not good enough, why they are not making more of their opportunities. It is because we are giving them too much too young, removing their incentive to work hard and learn, breaking the bond between generations of players.

I learned so much from the responsibilities I had as an apprentice at Manchester United. I made the orange squash for the players and was anxious watching Peter Schmeichel take his first sip in case it was too weak or too strong. I had the privilege of cleaning the boots of Roy Keane and Brian McClair. I was so proud of it that I would tell all my mates. I would be pleased when the pitch was especially muddy because it meant that I could do an even better job. It meant the world to me.

If I had done a good job, the first-team players would be grateful, and we would be given a bit of cash – just £10 or £20 – at Christmas, and at the end of the season. If we had not done a good job we would know about it too.


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This mattered, first, because it taught us apprentices – players like Wes Brown and Jonathan Greening – about the importance of responsibility. But it also mattered because it was a shared rite of passage between us and the senior pros, something that they had to do as teenagers for the generation of players before them. It gave them a way to identify with us, and something to talk about, a bond between their generation and ours.

That does not happen in football any more. That old bond is broken. In my final season at Stoke City I asked which youngsters would be cleaning our boots. I was told that we had to go up to a youngster, ask them and tell him how much we would be paying. We said no, and decided to pay the kit man to do it instead.

The fact is that young players today do not need to do that sort of thing. When I was an apprentice at United I was paid £40 per week. When I played for the A and B teams we got a £4 win bonus and £2 if we drew. That was only 20 years ago.

Teenage players at top clubs can now hope to earn £20,000 per week before they’ve even made themselves noticed in the first team. That means that they no longer need to do the menial jobs we used to. The only thing separating them from the seniors is the fact that they’re not in the team. While in a financial sense it brings them closer to the first-teamers, in reality it pushes them further away.

First-teamers who had to clean boots in their day cannot relate to youngsters who do not need that kind of work. Youngsters on £20,000 per week cannot relate to seniors who once scraped money together as apprentices. Money is no basis for common ground. How many footballers are friends with City bankers just because they earn well clear of six figures? Shared experiences, shared rituals, the same rites of passage into the squad, these are the bonds that have been broken.

What this means is that modern youngsters are less willing to learn from seniors than we were in our day. I learned so much from Keane, McClair, Steve Bruce, Gary Pallister and the rest because I was a sponge willing to take everything on board. Modern players don’t feel like they have as much to learn, because of what they earn. We were taught that if you worked hard, you would be successful and the money would follow. Modern youngsters get the money first, so why bother with the hard work?

The academies that continue to produce young players strong enough to take their chances, such as Southampton, are those based on more “old-school” values.

This is why the Under-21 League is such poor preparation for youngsters. It is a million miles away from competitive football, or even from the old reserve league where I learned so much from players like David May and Jesper Blomqvist. There are no leaders and no talkers, because the players have never had to take any responsibility. All teams play the same way – you attack, we attack – and the only way to tell them apart is by the colour of the kits. There is so little leadership on the pitch that you almost expect the players to roll down their socks, call their agent and ask him what to do next.

That is why the best youngster of his generation is Dele Alli, who grew up away from the Under-21 Leagues but in League One, playing competitive football against men. No big-money deal at 17, no fancy car, just a scrap on the pitch with grown men. That is where he learned about responsibility. No wonder he is now playing for Tottenham and England.

If clubs want to produce good youngsters again, they need to change their cultures. That means stopping throwing money at teenagers who have never played senior football. I believe the authorities should introduce a salary cap for youngsters, so their deals are far more incentivised. They should get a basic wage, with a bonus for their first time in the squad, another for their debut, another for their 10th start, and so on.

If we did that youngsters might have a reason to work harder, they might start taking responsibility, they might start learning from the senior players again. Even if they are not cleaning the boots, they will have that shared experience with the seniors that this generation lacks.

This might sound harsh but it is the sad reality of this generation. It is easy and wrong to blame foreigners for our youngsters not getting the chances. If they were good enough they would play. Look at how few youngsters released by Premier League clubs after their first professional deal get taken on by other top-flight teams. It hardly ever happens. Most of them have to drop down the divisions. This is why so few youngsters will feature today, and the top clubs only have themselves to blame.

Appleton’s well-drilled U’s can upset Rovers apple cart

One lad I remember from United, although he was a few years older than me, is Michael Appleton, and if I was looking for an FA Cup upset this weekend it would be from his excellent Oxford United side, who are hosting Blackburn Rovers. Michael has got them playing with real freedom and their movement makes them a joy to watch. There is a lot of talk about Kemar Roofe and John Lundstram, but their team is built on partnerships all over the pitch now that Michael has got the players to operate 4-4-2. This is the first time Michael has had the chance to get a proper pre-season with his players and build something – and it really shows.

Half agree with this. I agree that players are given too much too soon which can affect their motivation, but i definitely disagree that we aren't prodcuing players good enough. England are currently producing better players than they've ever had in a while. If these players were given a chance, to the point where a young player coming through in the FL isn't immediately jumped on as being the most outstanding player in his age group, then we'd have a greater crop of players to choose from and players of higher quality. I haven't seen any young player given a chance at their club yet that has let them down.

RLC hasn't looked worse than the players around him, our players have looked the part, heck even clubs where their production isn't as good as ours, like Utd with CBJ and Lingard have been doing well. These players just need chances and then we will increase the competition and I guarantee it won't reduce the quality of the league. DaSilva getting a chance instead of Baba Rahman or Clarke-Salter instead of Djilobodji. Then you've even got Watmore at Sunderland. I don't think cleaning someone's boots makes them anymore determined or better players.

chesterfield not exactly the most glamorous of sides, though that may be exactly what kwp needs to develop.

Did the KWP to Chesterfield happen. I don't watch Chesterfield but how do you not go to the Eredivise because of long balls but then go Chesterfield, I can't imagine them playing like Barca

 

[mpickard2087]

Did the KWP to Chesterfield happen. I don't watch Chesterfield but how do you not go to the Eredivise because of long balls but then go Chesterfield, I can't imagine them playing like Barca

I have to confess, when I heard that 'excuse' the cynic in me immediately thought that was code for 'went across for a look and didn't fancy going abroad'. I might be being unfair on him, but...?

 

[IGSpur]

I have to confess, when I heard that 'excuse' the cynic in me immediately thought that was code for 'went across for a look and didn't fancy going abroad'. I might be being unfair on him, but...?

Wouldn't surprise me. Not really a criticism of him, but if it was the case I hope the club would have tried to convince him otherwise and done everything in their power to support him. Would have been a great experience. Why make links with a team that don't play at all like we do

 

[spurs9]

I found this on Saints web which is a list of what they perceive to be PL standard players they have produced from their academy since 1998 (11 so far), so I thought we could do the same. Let me know who I'm missing. The year is the break through year into the first team (any not necessarily the academy's club).

Southampton (11)
1998- Bridge
1999
2000
2001
2002
2003
2004
2005 Baird (first year he got past 4 appearances, but had played FA Cup final), Dyer, Surman, Walcott
2006 Bale, Best (if we're counting him as PL standard)
2007
2008 Lallana
2009
2010 Ox
2011
2012 Shaw, JWP
2013 Chambers
2014' Reed (If we're taking him as a PL quality player)
2015 Targett
2016

Tottenham (18)
1998 - Young, Clemence*
1999
2000 - King
2001
2002 - Crouch
2003 - Kelly*
2004 - Marney*
2005
2006
2007 - Daniels*
2008 - O'Hara*
2009
2010
2011 - Livermore, Rose
2012 - Caulker
2013 - Townsend
2014 - Kane, Mason, Bentaleb, Smith
2015 - Carroll, Onomah
2016

*Debatable, but if they have Leon Best on their list!
Carr & Judas miss out by a couple of years.

 

[not_tenth-again]

You can stick Pritchard in that list for 2016. Absolutely no doubt in my mind he'll prove to be PL standard while on loan

 

[spurs9]

You can stick Pritchard in that list for 2016. Absolutely no doubt in my mind he'll prove to be PL standard while on loan

As much as I agree, I'm trying to be as unbiased as possible and almost didn't put Onomah in. If Pritchard makes a handful of starts (or about 10 sub apps) for WBA and plays well, I'll add him in.

 

[ralphs bald spot]

Regrettably think this will go down as a question for decades to come - 'who was the best player that Spurs ever let go from their academy ?' Possible answers being David Beckham, Graeme Souness or Milos Veljkovic.

Yup think he will go on to be a really top player. One of the worst mistakes Spurs have made in recent years.

Not a slight upon Carter-Vickers who is potentially excellent (but certainly one maybe two years behind in his development) or indeed Dominic Ball (again ahead of Carter-Vickers in terms of current development), but Veljkovic looked a class player playing at age 15 in a pre-season friendly (against Brighton ?) and hasn't changed since.

Hope he has a good career at Werder Bremen

I think Milos is ok - but its all guess work. He has never really been tested and I have a few questions marks about him which may or may not turn out to true They would be that he is suspect against pace and that on occasions he goes to sleep as a centre back. They might prove totally unwarranted but they are nagging doubts for me and though there the sort of issues lots of young centre backs have he is now reaching an age that he ought to be overcoming them

I also don't see Ball as a first team player at Tottenham and I would say Cam is much the better centre back

 

[Spurzinho]

Just a comment on our youth, in regards the transfer window: The lack of transfer activity will only become alarming if Poch fails to deliver on his pledge to use CCV & Harrison. What I absolutely do not want to see is Son or Chadli covering for Harry, and Dier & Davies slotting in at centre half on a regular basis for the remainder of the season. If you don't trust the kids, bring in a competent replacement for Harry & Jan. The worst thing we could do in the run in is to play square pegs in round holes whilst also destabilising the balance of the squad. I'm not arguing for him to play the kids if they're not ready but if they're not then failure to recruit cover is very, very poor business.

 

[DanielCHillier]

Just a comment on our youth, in regards the transfer window: The lack of transfer activity will only become alarming if Poch fails to deliver on his pledge to use CCV & Harrison. What I absolutely do not want to see is Son or Chadli covering for Harry, and Dier & Davies slotting in at centre half on a regular basis for the remainder of the season. If you don't trust the kids, bring in a competent replacement for Harry & Jan. The worst thing we could do in the run in is to play square pegs in round holes whilst also destabilising the balance of the squad. I'm not arguing for him to play the kids if they're not ready but if they're not then failure to recruit cover is very, very poor business.

Why would we use CCV over Dier at CB if Alderweirald were to get injured, Dier played most of last season at CB, CCV is just 18 there's no way he'd come in at CB instead of Dier. The same with Harrison instead of Son, Son may not be an out and out striker in the mould of Kane, but he has/can play that position and there is 0 chance of seeing Harrison in the first team this season, he only has 16 U21 appearances.