Standing still while rivals improve

[sunnydelight786]

You live in a bit of a fantasy world don't you.

Do you think it's a good idea to bring in a young, unproven player who would be starting from the bench in most games and pay him more than the likes of Kane, Lloris, Toby etc? Do you really think that we should have paid him £90k a week despite our current highest Warner on £10k less than that?

Define proven as a proven PL striker, Sturridge for example, costs you in excess of £40m and wages way in excess of £100k. MB is a Belgium int and scored on a regular basis in one of the top 5 leagues. What was the point of Mitchell scouting him for a year, making him our number 1 target and MP mentor highly recommending him to us if when push comes to shove we bottle it like usual? Why waste the time? Surely it was made clear from early on via his agent what his wage demands be.

The bottom line is we refuse to pay the going rate in fees, Martial anyone, or wages then cry later when we see this players go on to be top quality.

 

[sunnydelight786]

Like we we did with Soldaldo, Paulinho, Bentley and even Lamela sand Son.

Why do some consistently ignore the fact that that most of our big money signings have been failures whilst our biggest successes have come from youth acquisitions and value tier 2 players.

What people like you really want is a marquee signing, you want the glamour, you want a statement, it is all about having the excitement of such a signing as opposed to whether that player is actually suitable. At least be honest about it

Does that mean we don't pay the going rate anymore? Don't moan after when we end up winning fuck all again and finish below them lot for the 21st/22nd year in a row, at least our balance sheet looks good!!!

 

[SugarRay]

We have not stood still. Our problem is Eriksen, Kane and Alli not turning up to the party yet this term.
Janssen has improved our attacking options and Wanyama has added depth ( although I have a horrible feeling Dier will be the one to make way once Dembele is back )

If our players can find some form then we'll be fine although our depth looks poor right now. It looks like Son and N'Jie were a waste of money, cheers Mitch, and Chadli is off too. Surely we cannot rely on the likes of Onomah, Edwards and co to have an impact this season?

A lot of us are pining for someone to add some spark in the final third, which I think we've needed for a while now. I'd like to see someone brought in who has great technique. Our recent acquisitions seem like they would struggle to trap a bag of cement at times! Mitchell seemed to like players with this fault for some reason! Batshuayi and N'Koudou ( who is very much a 'meh' target imo, he'll likely be getting shipped out this time next year after failing to impress ) fall in to that category too, hardly 'ballers' and it's all about pace and physicality.

 

[TheHood]

Does that mean we don't pay the going rate anymore? Don't moan after when we end up winning fuck all again and finish below them lot for the 21st/22nd year in a row, at least our balance sheet looks good!!!

Pay the going rate for what exactly? Again you seem to be under the assumption that large fees guarantee success when we have seen this is not the case. Our transfers successes last season barely cost us anything whilst our 2 most expensive signings failed to perform. Our club's failing to win trophies has nothing to do with our transfer activity and has everything to do with the attitude and culture at the club towards the trophies it can win.

 

[cliff jones]

I think players being out of form, multiples ones at the same time is our problem. But considering this, the start of the season is not the disaster people are making out. I think we just need a good performance to get us going. Confident it won't be long happening

Agreed. Every time we strung a couple of good passes together yesterday the next link in the chain fkd it up, allowing them to break on us. Culprits all over the pitch. Their press made it awkward and our press was poor by comparison. Very lucky to snatch the point, but we are still in a handy position with the Dembele factor to come. But he has to use Son more, and sort the Njie and GKN saga one way or the other. We are too predictable.

 

[Styopa]

As mentioned above, we have not stood still as we have already improved our options in key areas. We may not have started as well as we wanted but we have also probably had more difficult fixtures than our supposedly more improved rivals. And we are yet to lose.

Similar questions were raised at the start of last season but by the summer a good deal of people were saying just how pleased they were to let this team be and develop without the need for major investment.

We need to continue to have patience in what we have started and accept there will always be teams spending more money than we are. It doesn't mean we're standing still, we're just doing things in a different way.

 

[Vincent30]

Ok we are not playing pretty football, but we are undefeated, missing probably our most important player and have a fair few of our players still finding there feet following a busy summer. It's not been the best start, but it could have been worse.

Hopefully we will add some pace to the attach, hopefully Eriksen will actually realise he is a very good player and hopefully energy levels will pick up. We've adding two good additions. Let's be a little more patient.

 

[spursfan77]

.... been blindingly obvious to me since the end of last season. Poch is struggling to improve a (on its day) a very good starting 11. A big challenge for a still inexperienced manager at the top level.

It's nigh on impossible to without spanking £20/£30 million on a single player with wages of over £100k a week and we don't seem to be willing to do that or be able to identify a player that can. It's the money that's holding us back, that much is obvious, but we can't compete with still having a massive £150 million funding gap for the new stadium (minimum figure as well).

 

[GetSpurredOn]

Nkoudou should at least give us someone to bring on and make opposition teams have to stop and think, as he's different to what else we have. Lack of pace is a big flaw in our current squad.
The Isco rumours that seem to be running strongly through the media, could also give us some much need extra creative spark, someone to ask questions of defence's, with a run on the ball, or pass to a man moving off it.
Big criticism so far, we look flat and a bit lethargic outside of the fullbacks, and the movement of players off the ball is nowhere near last season. That's where Liverpool had an edge yesterday, they were able to identify space and put man and ball there. Our AM need to start and dictate play more, stretch defence's. The CM are holding and working, but sterile, but doing a job, whilst the CF are working hard to provide a target. It's that back of 3 in between that are going missing. There could be an argument that Dembele's return will give us the impetus we've been missing, but if that is truly the case, then we've been neglectful in recruitment to leave ourselves so dependant on one player, as he is prone to missing games.

 

[DIEHARD]

We dont have to chuck 60m NET at improving our squad. We dont need to improve our first team vastly but its the squad that requires improvement.

There is a huge difference between developing the youth and relying on them. Onomah can be developed for exwmple but he should not be relied upon to change the game.

Our squad which in my view requires about 16 to 18 first team quality players needs reinforcing to ensure a) no loss of quality when we mix things up and b) we can change to a plan b or c when required.

The argument we cant compete is bollocks and infuriates me because everyone always brings up that we cant go out and spend 60m, no one has said that. We can reinforce the squad at half that.

We have more money than ever surely, CL money, PL money, sales from the likes of Pritchard and soon to be the likes of chadli etc. Yes i know we are building a stadium and appreciate that but no one is suggesting spunking 100m on Pogba.

 

[Syn_13]

Difficult situation this. Poch has clearly based him summer spending on improving where we fell behind last year. Namely, the lack of squad depth. I think it's a bit unfair to label Wanyama and Janssen as 2nd line players as they clearly have the ability to challenge for 1st team spots.

We all knew from last year that we only had 2 reliable holding CMs in Dier and Dembele. Wanyama is there to back them up, whilst the likes of Mason, Carroll and Bentaleb aren't quite good enough, and youngsters like Winks aren't ready. Personally, I feel we need another in that position. Wanyama is too similar to Dier to play next to him, it gives us no dynamism in that are of the pitch. Dembele is injury prone and needs cover, neither Wanyama nor Dier can do what he does in bringing that ball forward from defence to attack.

The Janssen signing is a great one. He's already looking a good fit, but he's there to give us depth again. We had 1 striker last season and when Kane was clearly knackered and out of options it killed us. He looks flexible enough to be able to work with Kane, but really he's there to compete with Kane. If Kane continues to underperform he might find himself dropped with Janssen starting in the #9 role.

I get what Poch is doing by trying to improve depth and not unsettle his first team. He clearly feels that it's good enough, just in need of bolstering. I do, however, slightly agree with the OP as I'm not quite sure if it really is good enough. For me it's all about our AM3. Lamela, Alli and Eriksen are all great players on their day, but they often have moments between them where 1 or 2 (perhaps all 3) are just not quite clicking.

I'd say we need 2 more signings. We need a CM with the ability to play with the ball at his feet who will act as cover/competition for Dembele, and an AM of substantial quality who will slot straight in and give the other 3 something to think about. The latter is tough to obtain though. It's difficult when we try to be ambitious in the market, we often end up falling flat. I think Son was meant to be that player last summer but he hasn't quite hit it off. Hopefully, he does this season, but the fact that Onomah got brought on over him yesterday suggests Poch doesn't feel he's up to it.

I like having kids like Winks, Edwards and Onomah waiting in the wings, but Poch can be over-reliant on these kids at times. It worked with Alli last year, but that won't always be the case. Sometimes you have to go out and spend money on a ready made product.

 

[ginola99]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...wilfried-zaha-and-a-very-weird-transfer-wind/

Perhaps that is why Levy was so half-hearted in his bid for Zaha, and has been relatively low-key in his dealings this summer: because he knows that this is a £1 billion market in which there is plenty of money but precious few bargains to be had.

 

[lukespurs7]

I don't think it is just about a pacy/tricky player in the 3 behind the CF, the reality is that all 3 of our starters aren't as good as their counterparts at our rivals. If we are being dispassionate then we would agree that all our main rivals have much more quality in those positions:
Goons - Sanchez, Ozil
Citeh - KdB, Silva, Sterling (I don't know enough about the new German kid)
Utd - Martial
Chelski - Hazard, Willian, Oscar
Pool - Coutinho

If we had any of the above players at our club they would start ahead of our current 3 of Eriksen/Ali/Lamela.

The problem is players in those positions are really expensive as the purchase prices of the players above (Countinho aside) proves.

Let's hope we get Isco.

I really disagree mate sorry.

The only players from that list id take to swap in would be: Hazard, Coutiniho, Mane(you missed him out),possibly Sanchez and KDB and also Mikataryen(You also missed him out). That having said last year Eriksen and Alli scored and assisted in the top 5 midfielders in fact I think only Marhez and Ozil were better. It's also about find the right player, I don't think many of the above you've mentioned would actually be that good a fit for our system however the ones I've listed probably would.

You could also easily flip this around and say that how many of the top teams would take most of our back 4, dembele and Kane.

So it's apples and oranges mate, yes some of the top teams have some outstanding individual players but we have a very effective TEAM which Leicester proved is what wins things.

The issue is twofold, 1 we've not clicked into gear yet and a lot of our players who were excellent last year are under par so far, especially the attacking ones and n.o 2 we still lack a little bit of pace in our front 3 which makes transitioning difficult.

Also we have played Everton, Liverpool(who battered Arsenal away!) and c.palace, not exactly the easiest start compared to the current top3.
Let's just wait and see as the season progresses shall we. I do worry about our slightly lack of goal scoringthreat at the moment though.

The only players we could really get to improve us would cost £50mil + and be on mega wages which given were funding a spanking new stadium we cannot commit to those signings now.

So be patient with the team we have.

One other thing is I actually think Potch needs to have a little look at his tactics as against Liverpool this year and Dortmund last year I think we were actually outplayed but also tactically got it slightly wrong.

The team and manager are still learning. We won't win the league this year I just hope we can scrape top 4 and build from there + Mabye have a good CL run and win a cup.

COYS.

Perspective please people!!

 

[Hoddle&Waddle]

Like we we did with Soldaldo, Paulinho, Bentley and even Lamela sand Son.

Why do some consistently ignore the fact that that most of our big money signings have been failures whilst our biggest successes have come from youth acquisitions and value tier 2 players.

What people like you really want is a marquee signing, you want the glamour, you want a statement, it is all about having the excitement of such a signing as opposed to whether that player is actually suitable. At least be honest about it

All that really highlights is that the people we emplyed at the time to recruit players were not good at there job.

Statistically the teams that spend the most money finish the highest in the league, and win the most trophy's, that is just a fact. There are of course the odd exception when a team like liecester flip the script, but these are anomally's and normal service resumes shortly.

I dont think anyone is saying we need to totally change our stratergy of signining young, hungry, low cost signings. Just that we occasionally direct our funds towards improving the first 11. I dont think thats to outragous of an ask, especially when we are in the CL.

 

[TheHood]

All that really highlights is that the people we emplyed at the time to recruit players were not good at there job.

Statistically the teams that spend the most money finish the highest in the league, and win the most trophy's, that is just a fact. There are of course the odd exception when a team like liecester flip the script, but these are anomally's and normal service resumes shortly.

I dont think anyone is saying we need to totally change our stratergy of signining young, hungry, low cost signings. Just that we occasionally direct our funds towards improving the first 11. I dont think thats to outragous of an ask, especially when we are in the CL.

The teams that consistently secure silverware are either those with billionaire benefactors or are one of the richest clubs in the game as with Man United. Those clubs can afford to write off substantial market losses,we in comparison cannot, espically with our stadium commitments. We simply are not in the same bracket as those clubs and so many of our supporters could save themselves a lot of anguish if they accepted that fact.

As for not strengthening the first team, well who is to say we haven't? The success of a window can only really be determined after the season has finished. Take Ali for example, he was dismissed as a fringe player this time last year who would have little impact but went on to become a mainstay in the side. We have brought in Wynamma and Jansen and both have played parts already and could very well become fixtures in the side. What you want is a high profile, high fee player because you seem to think such a signing will almost certainly be success. The sheer volume of high profile large fee signings that failed last season should tell you that is simply not the case.

 

[Shadydan]

Define proven as a proven PL striker, Sturridge for example, costs you in excess of £40m and wages way in excess of £100k. MB is a Belgium int and scored on a regular basis in one of the top 5 leagues. What was the point of Mitchell scouting him for a year, making him our number 1 target and MP mentor highly recommending him to us if when push comes to shove we bottle it like usual? Why waste the time? Surely it was made clear from early on via his agent what his wage demands be.

The bottom line is we refuse to pay the going rate in fees, Martial anyone, or wages then cry later when we see this players go on to be top quality.

You're just solidifying my point with your Sturridge example, proven strikers are not cheap hence why we shouldn't be offering Batshuyai anywhere near top money because he hadn't played in this league before. The point is that Batshuyai was well within our sights and matches our profile from a financial perspective, if he gets offered more money by another team what else can we do?

Been said many a time, we simply just cannot compete with bigger sides from a financial perspective, I don't know why people don't understand this?

 

[Hoddle&Waddle]

The teams that consistently secure silverware are either those with billionaire benefactors or are one of the richest clubs in the game as with Man United. Those clubs can afford to write off substantial market losses,we in comparison cannot, espically with our stadium commitments. We simply are not in the same bracket as those clubs and so many of our supporters could save themselves a lot of anguish if they accepted that fact.

As for not strengthening the first team, well who is to say we haven't? The success of a window can only really be determined after the season has finished. Take Ali for example, he was dismissed as a fringe player this time last year who would have little impact but went on to become a mainstay in the side. We have brought in Wynamma and Jansen and both have played parts already and could very well become fixtures in the side. What you want is a high profile, high fee player because you seem to think such a signing will almost certainly be success. The sheer volume of high profile large fee signings that failed last season should tell you that is simply not the case.

My point was that we use the CL money to strengthen whilst in a postion of strength, not that we should spend money we dont have.

So far this window its been the same 'moneyball' strategy, spreading our funds over multiple investments. My argument is that we stray SLIGHTLY from that whilst we have the lure of the CL and the reputation of a team 'on the up'. Not the extremes you are describing in your post.

 

[RichieS]

I don't think it is just about a pacy/tricky player in the 3 behind the CF, the reality is that all 3 of our starters aren't as good as their counterparts at our rivals. If we are being dispassionate then we would agree that all our main rivals have much more quality in those positions:
Goons - Sanchez, Ozil
Citeh - KdB, Silva, Sterling (I don't know enough about the new German kid)
Utd - Martial
Chelski - Hazard, Willian, Oscar
Pool - Coutinho

If we had any of the above players at our club they would start ahead of our current 3 of Eriksen/Ali/Lamela.

The problem is players in those positions are really expensive as the purchase prices of the players above (Countinho aside) proves.

Let's hope we get Isco.

True, but we were close to signing all of those Chelsea ones before they played their favourite game of gazumping us. We also had a deal in place for Martial before United said they'd pay nearly 3 times as much as we'd agreed. We are at a level where in order to improve our first team they are the players we need to be targeting (and we do) but they also happen to be the same players that the clubs that pay 2-3 times as much in wages as we can afford have on their shopping lists.

And once again you have to pay the going rate if you want quality.....

This morning we are being linked with Isco, does anyone genuinely believe he's going to join us for a pack of M&M's & vouchers for our megastore....? His wage demands will be in the region of what 'Top Quality' players get paid, around £100k a week. That is reason enough to know this links BS as we refuse to pay the going rate!!!

We can (and do) pay players in the region of £100k p/w. We just weren't willing to do it for Belgium's 5th choice striker. I suspect Isco, a player of far higher renown and proven quality, would be the sort of signing we would be willing to have as one of our top earners (as Götze would also have been).

 

[mattdefoe]

With champions league football it would be nice to see us show some ambition with someone like draxler or Isco

 

[CoopsieDeadpool]

It's not all doom and gloom, but the fact is that all teams aiming to compete at the top of the table, and for other trophies, need to invest each year to improve. I realise we don't have the resources of most or even all of the other big teams, and we have a new stadium on the way.

But we NEED a couple of players who can come in and improve the first team. VM and Jansen are a good start, but Eriksen badly needs competition, and our bench today was shocking IMO. Mason, Chadli, Carroll are seemingly on the way out. If we don't strengthen the team we will be basically fielding the same starting 11 the whole season and in the CL, with youngsters on the bench and playing in some cup games.

We can't just rely on Dembele to fix everything, and assume that the squad will achieve what they did last year. All the other big teams have invested heavily, and Man U, Chelsea and Liverpool all look a very different proposition from last season.