Stats insight into Spurs defending

[spursLA]

From the most recent Statsbomb article. Maybe some insight into why Poch started with the defense this transfer season.

"The longest passes allowed are generally all German teams (see below for more on league differences) and then some bad Spanish teams and then Tottenham, who are right besides Augsburg. Only Man United and strangely QPR are better at stopping passes through the midfield than Tottenham, the main problem with their defense was the passes that get through are long and dangerous, and are converted into shots at a higher rate than any other EPL team. This would suggest at first glance that the backline is more of a problem than the midfield". - See more at: http://statsbomb.com/2015/07/contro...-milner-might-not-be-the-answer-for-liverpool"/#sthash.1w4btQGy.dpuf

 

[Shadydan]

If the midfield added the required protection to the back line as in shut down the player passing the ball then we wouldn't be so exposed, there's only so much the back line can do.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

From the most recent Statsbomb article. Maybe some insight into why Poch started with the defense this transfer season.

"The longest passes allowed are generally all German teams (see below for more on league differences) and then some bad Spanish teams and then Tottenham, who are right besides Augsburg. Only Man United and strangely QPR are better at stopping passes through the midfield than Tottenham, the main problem with their defense was the passes that get through are long and dangerous, and are converted into shots at a higher rate than any other EPL team. This would suggest at first glance that the backline is more of a problem than the midfield". - See more at: http://statsbomb.com/2015/07/contro...-milner-might-not-be-the-answer-for-liverpool"/#sthash.1w4btQGy.dpuf

Very interesting article, this should be moved to Spurs Chat.

I think something was missed when analysing the cause and effect. I think one of main the sources/causes of long balls being able to be played that put our defenders under pressure in the first place is poor pressing of the ball from the front.

I think our defenders didn't always cover themselves in glory, but defensively our weakest area is the front 4 and our general lack of group organisation without the ball.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

If the midfield added the required protection to the back line as in shut down the player passing the ball then we wouldn't be so exposed, there's only so much the back line can do.

Unless I completely misunderstood, we were actually quite good at preventing shorter passes going through our midfield, where we were poor was allowing longer passes. This isn't necessarily the two CM's fault. It's also the AM's and striker.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Can a mod move this to Spurs Chat ?

 

[aliyid]

Only Man United and strangely QPR are better at stopping passes through the midfield than Tottenham, the main problem with their defense was the passes that get through are long and dangerous, and are converted into shots at a higher rate than any other EPL team

Makes a lot of sense and could be due to the high defensive line... Playing a high press does cut down the short passes through the midfield and increase our potential to win back possession but it leaves us exposed against speedy forwards and the ball over the top.

 

[chrissivad]

One of our problems is letting players run from deep in behind the midfield.

 

[DCSPUR]

look at the midfield ranking - higher than chelski

 

[nicdic]

Very interesting. Does seem to tie that our issues are when the midfield gets bypassed. We need a more cohesive press up the top of the pitch.

 

[double0]

It was as clear, as the sun is bright, that our defence was the main problem last season and the utter bull shit directed towards Mason was embarrassing. Long balls over our midfield was a clear tactic for most teams playing against us last season , our CB's failed miserably to deal with airal balls, we were also poor on the turn any attack on us exposed our weakness.

It was no surprise we've had to address this area tho I maintain our midfield is strong and the clamour for Schneiderlin ... personally couldn't understand.

 

[DCSPUR]

look at the midfield ranking - higher than chelski

mjw? Spam? Fat fingers? Can't read?

 

[Bus-Conductor]

It was as clear, as the sun is bright, that our defence was the main problem last season and the utter bull shit directed towards Mason was embarrassing. Long balls over our midfield was a clear tactic for most teams playing against us last season , our CB's failed miserably to deal with airal balls, we were also poor on the turn any attack on us exposed our weakness.

It was no surprise we've had to address this area tho I maintain our midfield is strong and the clamour for Schneiderlin ... personally couldn't understand.

It was even clearer, as the bright eyes of a samaler hound, that even worse defensively was our front players (and I include the FB's in that at times). And just playing 2 CM's all the time doesn't help.

Long balls don't just go over, they go through and round the midfield, and that is even easier to do when there are just two of them trying to cover a massive area of pitch because the four ahead of them amble about.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Be interesting to hear what @jair1970 makes of this, he also does stuff like this for statsbomb.

 

[Gedson100]

Be interesting to hear what @jair1970 makes of this, he also does stuff like this for statsbomb.

Hey, yeah.

I curate the work over there and am de facto editor these days, so I am well versed with Dustin's work. He's very clever at translating statistics and rates into truths and in particular, with this article, I think he did a really good job of defining styles of play.

We know there's a hole somewhere in our team, I wrote about all the shots in the box we've conceded late last year (link in my sig) and Mason has been an easy and obvious target, but the acquiring of more defenders suggests those in the club are most concerned about those positions as is intimated here.

This bit:
Only Man United and strangely QPR are better at stopping passes through the midfield than Tottenham, the main problem with their defense was the passes that get through are long and dangerous, and are converted into shots at a higher rate than any other EPL team.

...was interesting, because we know we operate a press in midfield and nominally up front, but if, as you've said many times, the forwards slack off, then the long ball played past the high up pressing midfielder is an obvious pass for the opposition and it's worked really well for them. So he's found a way of measuring an issue that intuitively tallies with what we understand from watching, which is a powerful conformation of the "eye-test".

Interesting also is that we are lumped in with Arsenal, Utd and QPR as teams that are particularly vulnerable to conceding high quality chances from passes from deep, chances that will convert ata high rate. Utd were similar to us last year insofar as they tried to control the play but had little defensive rigour, when they conceded chances they were often good ones, and Petr Cech is going to get a baptism of fire behind Arsenal's defence after years behind Chelsea's solid blockers.

Dustin's conclusion here:
If my team was in the second group, I would look first to upgrade my back-line if I wanted to improve my defense.

...is reassuring: we are doing just that, Utd and Arsenal haven't so far.

Dustin has written 6 articles for the site and they're all interesting & worth looking at, if sometimes a little on the long side! And I write regularly on there too amongst others.

As a general point, it's always worth remembering that stats and analytics are a useful tool in the armoury of a club, they will never replace everything but complement traditional theories well and can provide an edge. Tottenham are getting there with this and have made great strides over the last couple of years. The difference between Redknapp, an agent's lists of players and Levy by the phone and what we have now are almost polar in their extreme.

 

[spursLA]

@jair1970 - love the work at Statsbomb and am a Twitter follower. I hadn't put it together that you're on SC as well.

 

[The Spurs Lad]

Unless I completely misunderstood, we were actually quite good at preventing shorter passes going through our midfield, where we were poor was allowing longer passes. This isn't necessarily the two CM's fault. It's also the AM's and striker.

Off the top of my head, Southampton away we struggled with long balls and a major issue, along with Vertonghen being generally poor, was that none of the DMs were anywhere near to winning the second ball/closing the space of the following up player in the '2nd phase'.

Edit: Effectively what happens is the CB then has to step out (Vertonghen is a massive culprit for this) to cover the space the DM isn't covering and instantly we concede a chance.

Defending has to be about staying tight, deep and compact when you lose the ball, the DM doesn't even need to be good, he just needs to be close and narrow to the centre backs. We can pretend its the CB's faults all we wish but you could stick Maldini in there with no protection in front of him and he will struggle.

 

[The Spurs Lad]

It was as clear, as the sun is bright, that our defence was the main problem last season and the utter bull shit directed towards Mason was embarrassing. Long balls over our midfield was a clear tactic for most teams playing against us last season , our CB's failed miserably to deal with airal balls, we were also poor on the turn any attack on us exposed our weakness.

It was no surprise we've had to address this area tho I maintain our midfield is strong and the clamour for Schneiderlin ... personally couldn't understand.

The issue with Mason was it wasn't his style nor his role. It was Bentalebs as he is the deeper of the two. Although for me the blame lies with Poch who should be clear in which of the two has the defensive role, as generally neither seemed to fully sit deeper and instead took turns. Imo that's something that rarely works unless you have two seriously good, powerful DM's.

 

[nicdic]

The issue with Mason was it wasn't his style nor his role. It was Bentalebs as he is the deeper of the two. Although for me the blame lies with Poch who should be clear in which of the two has the defensive role, as generally neither seemed to fully sit deeper and instead took turns. Imo that's something that rarely works unless you have two seriously good, powerful DM's.

I don't think we have a sitter.

It would seem that the point is to press hard and quick from the front. Unfortunately we don't always manage that so well. And so the middle gets bypassed.

 

[Led's Zeppelin]

Is it possible that one of the causes of the dangerous long balls is exactly the fact that we are good at preventing short-passing through the middle and defence, thereby leaving the opposition with fewer options, so they have to use the long ball?

So it might be a mistake to conclude that it's the midfield that's at fault here, although the reality is that it won't be a single cause.

Anyway, one thing's for sure: strengthening the defence is good.

 

[Mullers]

T.A is an upgrade on Fazio but still a pretty average player, Wimmer I've read is like Dawson, Tripper is hopefully an upgrade, unless the whole team improve defensively it will just be the same as it was last season.