Sugar Daddy...

[bomberH]

Morning.

To save the 'opponents fans thread' from getting completely derailed, I thought I'd start this one.

By the amount of likes and agrees the responses against me are getting, I can see I'm in the minority when I say I'm ready for a billionaire (who's willing to part with his money) to take us over.

I'll start by reiterating that I love the way the club is run and if we won anything in the very near future, it would be absolutely amazing considering other clubs' transfer budgets and wages. Genuinely, nothing would please me more. I'm a big fan of Levy even though he has his moments...

Chelsea and City are bang average clubs who got lucky. But they did get lucky. They're not going to get any poorer any time soon. Man U, Liverpool and Arsenal are all massive clubs who pay much more wages than us and can afford much higher transfer fees than us. Our new stadium will help us out with this and maybe get us nearer the level of Arsenal and possibly Liverpool. But nowhere near Utd, City or Chelsea (in terms of finance, and also international recognition).

If every team had a budget of £100m to spend and £100k a week wage limit, I'm fairly certain we'd win the league very comfortably with Pochettino in charge. But obviously it doesn't work like that. While we've got really close over the last couple of years doing it on a much lower budget, the other teams have now spent literally hundreds of millions to make up for their poor showings. We can't do that.

As I said in the other thread, a splurge of cash would mean the difference between buying decent players like Nkoudou and buying amazing players like Mane. My personal opinion is that Mane would've come to us over Liverpool (because of Poch) if we matched Liverpool's wage offer. But they offered literally double what we would. This will continue until we match the wages of other clubs. I think we would've won the league with Mane last season.

To the people who vote no, I ask you this:

If I could see into the future and told you we wouldn't win any major trophy for the next 20 years (but coming close) by staying as we are or I told you we'd win the PL and CL over the next few years if we got the cash injection, would you still say no? Honestly? Mr Pink said he'd still say no. I admire that but i genuinely can't understand it.

I've seen us not win anything interesting for about 34 of the 37 years I've been a season ticket holder. The main one was the UEFA cup in 84. The others have been just FA Cups. League cups are great but they're not major trophies. No league title for over 55 years. I want to compete with the massive clubs like Utd and the lucky clubs like Chelsea and City. I want to sign a genuine superstar, one that several other big clubs are in for but who chooses us. Footballers as a whole care more about money now, we all know that, so a great player who's offered £80k by us and £160k by someone else, will go to someone else.

In my opinion, it's the only way we can compete with the others now. We've done amazingly well to be up there these last 2 years but I want to compete with them for years and years. My fear is even if we do win the league, our players know they can earn millions more elsewhere and end up leaving. A sugar daddy would end that and could double their wages to make them stay.

I can understand people who want it done the right way but I think we'll get left behind because of it. Other smaller teams will start getting massive investors at some point and we'll get left even further behind. I can't understand why people wouldn't want it.

The people who are giving 'agrees' and 'winners' to the people opposing my argument, it's all very admirable that you want it done the 'right' way, it really is, but I refer you to the above question. Will you still feel the same if we haven't won anything in 15/20 years?

 

[Trix]

Absolutely not. Look at the value of our squad compared to the teams just trying to buy their titles, there is very little in it so it's not the case you have to spend a fortune to get these players. We have had to do it more slowly, and we have to work much harder to get there but that is what will make it all the more sweet in the long run.

 

[mark87]

Prefer my club to have a soul.

 

[Basil Brush]

I voted "yes" only because I want to see Spurs winning trophies, and i don't really care how we do it.

Money may not guarantee trophies but it will sure help.

 

[nicdic]

No.

 

[Azazello]

What if do we win things? The problem with this kind of argument is that no one really knows what'll happen.

In principle though I don't want this club to turn into something like PSG. What's the point of supporting someone else's ego trip? Or cheering someone like Abramovich and his bent billions. No thanks. People like that in my view are turning football into a soulless wankfest over how much money someone's got. I have some wealthy friends but I don't see them because they're loaded, I see them because I like them.

So in a way football for me isn't just about winning, there's got to be some soul there too - without the latter the former means little.

 

[Dougal]

Money would have blocked Kane’s development, route to the first team and road to becoming a Spurs Legend. Why the fuck would anyone want that?

 

[BPR_U16]

may be because I am old and appreciate Spurs for what they represent but there is no way on earth would i want a team like Spurs to be linked with this potentially easy route to success and glory

hate the way the money men have changed the state of football across all of Europe - so many unbalanced leagues

 

[Bobbins]

A few years ago I was edging towards saying yes, but we've made such progress since then, we don't need one now, and if we got one, I feel it'd totally devalue all the hard work Poch and the club have done to get us where we are now.

 

[sly1]

It is hard to put your finger on what exactly gives a football club its identity. The players change, the owners change, stadiums are demolished and rebuilt, clubs even move locations entirely and they are still considered to be the same team. Like with the human body, where every cell is eventually replaced over the years, and where one's thoughts, memories and personality change so much that it is hard to say that your adult self has more in common with your childhood self than anyone else, we still have a sense of a single soul persisting that has a single identity.

For me, it has something to do with continuity; it is important that changes happen gradually enough that Tottenham is recognizably the same club today that it was a year ago. And it is important also that there is some logical connection between the events in the history of the club. When I think of where Spurs are now, I feel that Jol, Redknapp, Bale, Modric, VDV, King, even Ramos, were all necessary elements that contributed to the position we are in today.

Were it all to change overnight because we were bought by a sugardaddy billionaire, I would feel that the connection to the history of the club has been broken. Yes, we could win loads of trophies if we were bought by a sugardaddy; but, I feel "I" could just as easily win trophies by supporting Real Madrid. But it would be meaningless to me to do so. And from a personal perspective, I feel that it would be just as meaningless to me if Spurs won trophies through ridiculous spending of a billionaire.

 

[coys200]

Once the new stadium is built our finances will be ahead of Liverpool and Arsenal.Abramovich looks to be losing interest in Chelsea.So it’s just City and United.Athletico have shown it can be done.City and united aren’t e en buying the elite players neymar messi mpabbe etc.Still Pretty sure if offered pep and Jose would take half our squad.Once the new stadium is built we will only be more competitive.Currently our transfer budget is probably 1/4 of theirs which I think will go to about 1/2.

 

[Guntz]

No because when we do eventually win a title, it will feel so much more special.

Quality over quantity for me personally.

 

[sherbornespurs]

Winning trophies on the back of laundered money like Chelsea, or becoming the living embodiment of everything you've ever despised about your neighbours like Manchester City by swimming in an ocean of liquid gold......honestly?

 

[bomberH]

So just to be clear from 99% of the replies so far, you'd rather win nothing for 20 years than compete at the very top and win trophies because it's either soulless or losing our identity. Ok cool. Disagree but cool.

Remember the question I asked... it wasn't about maybe winning something the way we are, it was are you happy not to win anything staying as we are or winning the league with the cash investment. It's hypothetical of course because we can't see into the future but for a second, imagine time travel was possible..... if someone told you we'd win the league with investment, you're all still saying you'd rather not win anything, which I find amazing! Last year was sensational and I'll never forget it for as long as I live, but a few seasons of that without actually winning would be heartbreaking for me.

Kane still would've broken through imo. He was up against Ade and £28m Soldado and still broke through. Trix, the value of our squad means nothing. It just means Utd or City or Madrid etc will have to pay more when they buy them. They will still buy them. And they'll pay them more. And yes of course it'll make it much more sweeter in the long run if we win it, but the chances of winning will decrease massively if we sell more of our players when they get offered double their wages by someone else.

I genuinely admire some of the replies and I was like that for years. But the way City and Chelsea have just taken over is upsetting. For me, it's the only way we can compete now. Even if we managed to win the league this year, i want these players to stay and not be tempted away by the money. It's not the wrong way any more. If a rich Arab bought West Brom and they became massive, who'd deny them that? Would their fans complain? It will happen to lots more clubs if the rules aren't changed and as lovely as it'll be to do it the way we're doing, there's a real chance we'd be left behind.

 

[nicdic]

So just to be clear from 99% of the replies so far, you'd rather win nothing for 20 years than compete at the very top and win trophies because it's either soulless or losing our identity. Ok cool. Disagree but cool.

Remember the question I asked... it wasn't about maybe winning something the way we are, it was are you happy not to win anything staying as we are or winning the league with the cash investment. It's hypothetical of course because we can't see into the future but for a second, imagine time travel was possible..... if someone told you we'd win the league with investment, you're all still saying you'd rather not win anything, which I find amazing! Last year was sensational and I'll never forget it for as long as I live, but a few seasons of that without actually winning would be heartbreaking for me.

Kane still would've broken through imo. He was up against Ade and £28m Soldado and still broke through. Trix, the value of our squad means nothing. It just means Utd or City or Madrid etc will have to pay more when they buy them. They will still buy them. And they'll pay them more. And yes of course it'll make it much more sweeter in the long run if we win it, but the chances of winning will decrease massively if we sell more of our players when they get offered double their wages by someone else.

I genuinely admire some of the replies and I was like that for years. But the way City and Chelsea have just taken over is upsetting. For me, it's the only way we can compete now. Even if we managed to win the league this year, i want these players to stay and not be tempted away by the money. It's not the wrong way any more. If a rich Arab bought West Brom and they became massive, who'd deny them that? Would their fans complain? It will happen to lots more clubs if the rules aren't changed and as lovely as it'll be to do it the way we're doing, there's a real chance we'd be left behind.

I'd rather revert back to mid 90s mediocrity over becoming what Chelsea and City are.

 

[bomberH]

I'd rather revert back to mid 90s mediocrity over becoming what Chelsea and City are.

The atmosphere was certainly better!

But I've been there and done that. I want to expand on what we're currently doing, not go back to that shit again!

 

[tommo84]

Apologies if this turns into a long post but...

Years ago in this forum I posted something about how Man City are not really Man City anymore. Their stadium, their resources and, for a while at least, even their badge changed and all in a short space of time. Furthermore, those first two changes happened entirely independently of how they performed on the pitch and were pivotal to the turnaround in their success. This means that, even though they did enjoy some success as a club many years ago, there is zero continuity between those successful teams from the past and this current team. There isn't even any continuity between the crap teams from the 90s and this team now. Even Chelsea have some continuity because they started their reckless spending under Bates and Harding and that brought some success which, together with the way they were heading towards bankruptcy as a result of that spending, led to Abramovic buying the club. For Man City, however, the club that existed through the 20th century simply isn't there anymore. There are two watershed moments in their history - the gift of the new stadium and the Sheik Mansour takeover - which means the club in 2008 was unrecognizable from the club as late as in 2002. Yes there are fans who have supported a club called Man City for decades and I bear very little grudge to those fans - especially those who feel a little bit detached from the club now because they acknowledge the club they support now isn't the one they grew up with. However to those fans who believe they are still supporting their local team or fail to see the souless-ness of it all, I say this:

Claiming Man City now are the same club as they were before 2008 is like saying that the Tesco Express which replaced the family-owned corner shop at the end of your street is still a part of the local community.

Do I want success? Yes. Would I like us to have the financial might to resist the advances of Madrid etc and pay our best players top dollar? Yes. But more than anything, I want to still be able to support Tottenham Hotspur when I'm old and, if I'm lucky enough to have kids, and grandkids, I want to feel like they're watching and cheering on the same club that I grew up with. To my mind no Man City fan that grew up in the 90s or before will ever be able to do that from here. So at risk of losing the sense of attachment I feel to our great club as it is now, no - I do not want a billionaire to buy us and use us as his plaything/vanity trip.

 

[bomberH]

Out of interest, would it make any difference if it was Joe Lewis who just woke up one morning and said to Levy 'Here's £2 billion pounds to spend on Spurs'. Then Levy buys Isco for £80m and raises everyone's wages to double what they are now.

It's the same as being taken over by rich people, even though he's our owner already. It's not money Spurs have made, it's Lewis's personal money that he wants to give to us. But does it make a difference to the way people feel about it?

 

[Wheeler Dealer]

Absolutely not. Look at the value of our squad compared to the teams just trying to buy their titles, there is very little in it so it's not the case you have to spend a fortune to get these players. We have had to do it more slowly, and we have to work much harder to get there but that is what will make it all the more sweet in the long run.

But, If you are winning trophies and paying top dollar like City and Chelsea do, your players are less likely to be seduced by other clubs for a move.. You are right that we have assembled a great squad, but also at risk of seeing this being disassembled at any time due to opportunities elsewhere for more cash and greater potential for trophies.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

I voted "yes" only because I want to see Spurs winning trophies, and i don't really care how we do it.

Money may not guarantee trophies but it will sure help.

Over the last 30 months, we wouldn't have needed more money to win trophies, but better transfer decisions within the same budgets. It's down to margins, maybe 1, 2 or 3 better decisions with the same means, and we would have won PL by now. Go back in time and spend fees and salaries for N'Jie, N'Koudou, Janssen and Sissoko differently, and we would have had a trophy.