The anti-Stratford protests begin!

[SpurSince57]

The thing is, we will have to spend £200m on them upfront, and incur the associated interest charges, as well as having to devote resources away from the core competencies of the club, such as time, money and manpower to maintain and manage these. We will also have to try and look to turn a profit on these, in an economic climate that is not necessarily conducive to large scale property development.


The last bit is very anecdotal on my part, but in the current economic climate, turning a profit on those will be much harder, plus they will divery resources from the core competencies of running a football club.

Tottenham Hotspur plc has already spent an unknown but very substantial sum on acquiring and demolishing a large chunk of North Tottenham.

 

[spursphil]

For me its a choice between Tradition or Progress and i lean towards Progress as i personally feel the OS offers far more long term benefits for the club.

 

[MattyP]

The thing is, we will have to spend £200m on them upfront, and incur the associated interest charges, as well as having to devote resources away from the core competencies of the club, such as time, money and manpower to maintain and manage these. We will also have to try and look to turn a profit on these, in an economic climate that is not necessarily conducive to large scale property development.


The last bit is very anecdotal on my part, but in the current economic climate, turning a profit on those will be much harder, plus they will divery resources from the core competencies of running a football club.

As I said in one of the other threads, there is a higher upfront outlay for the NDP and there is higher risk, as you outline in terms of generating a profit in tough economic times. Additionally, Stratford will present greater corporate revenue opportunities.

But the NDP will still make us better off than we are now and can help us to become a bigger club with more resources than at present.

But even with Stratford, we would have to devote resources away from the core competencies of the club, such as time, money and manpower in order to sell the current site.

We would also be more likely to make a loss on that given the inflated prices we have paid in order to acquire certain properties around WHL.

 

[roosh]

Tottenham Hotspur plc has already spent an unknown but very substantial sum on acquiring and demolishing a large chunk of North Tottenham.

That is a sunk cost, and shouldn't affect any future decisions, but one would have to wonder if those costings are included in the cost of the NPD, or if they are additional costs.

The thing, if there is one thing we can definitely ascribe to Levy it is financial nous. I find it difficult to imagine he wouldn't be aware of the bottom line when it comes to all of this, and that he wouldn't have very strong costings done for both projects.

That for me lends more credibility to the move to the OS, unless it is just a ploy by Levy in a game of brinksmanship with Harringey Council - which is something else we can ascribe to Levy.

Either way, I trust that Levy knows what is in the best financial interests of the club, even if there is one and a half eyes on a return for shareholders.

 

[roosh]

As I said in one of the other threads, there is a higher upfront outlay for the NDP and there is higher risk, as you outline in terms of generating a profit in tough economic times. Additionally, Stratford will present greater corporate revenue opportunities.

But the NDP will still make us better off than we are now and can help us to become a bigger club with more resources than at present.

But even with Stratford, we would have to devote resources away from the core competencies of the club, such as time, money and manpower in order to sell the current site.

We would also be more likely to make a loss on that given the inflated prices we have paid in order to acquire certain properties around WHL.

For me, on the issue of the financials, the issue boils down to who do I think knows more about all that? Does the ordinary supporter know more, based on very limited figures, or does Daniel Levy know more, with presumably very detailed costings?

I'm inclined to trust that Levy has the more detailed analysis, and knows what is better, financially for the club.


For me, the question then comes down to, how would either proposal affect development of the football club on the pitch?

Personally, I can't see how remaining in Tottenham, for the sake of sentimentality, would do anything to improve the fortunes of the the team, while moving to stratford could lead to increased revenue streams for the club, which would [presumably] positively affect the fortunes of the club on the field.


All things being equal, I would prefer to stay put, but all things aren't equal, and it appears that the trade-off is between maximising potential future success and sentimentality.

I would have to go with maximising potential future success every time, even though I really would love both, becuase it would be great to stay true to our roots and maximise potential - it just doesn't appear to be possible.

 

[bigturnip]

For me its a choice between Tradition or Progress and i lean towards Progress as i personally feel the OS offers far more long term benefits for the club.

For me it's a choice between the life and death of the greatest football club in the world.

 

[AngerManagement]

For me it's a choice between the life and death of the greatest football club in the world.

but it's not at all because the football club will continue whether it is in Stratford or Tottenham.

It's between the life and death of your ability to assocaite/identify with the football club and support it.

The club might be gone in your eyes if it moves to Stratford, but the reality is the club will still be very much alive in real terms and 90% of fans will continue to love and support it regardless as their love of the club is bigger than the N17 post code and for us the club transends Tottenham N17.

 

[yid1o]

For me it's a choice between the life and death of the greatest football club in the world.

My feelings entirely. If Spurs move out of Tottenham that is the end, it doesn't matter how you dress it up.

 

[bigturnip]

but it's not at all because the football club will continue whether it is in Stratford or Tottenham.

It's between the life and death of your ability to assocaite/identify with the football club and support it.

The club might be gone in your eyes if it moves to Stratford, but the reality is the club will still be very much alive in real terms and 90% of fans will continue to love and support it regardless as their love of the club is bigger than the N17 post code and for us the club transends Tottenham N17.

In your opinion. I don't believe that 90% of fans only care about whether the club exists in some form and is successful, if that were true you wouldn't mind us becoming Sol Campbell is God FC of Doha. Perhaps we could merge with West Ham while we're at it?

And before anybody takes my comments too seriously, I know they are facetious, but the principles of the examples given are important, if they were to happen those who are open to the idea of moving to Stratford would have no right to object as long it was 'for the good' of the club.

 

[AngerManagement]

My feelings entirely. If Spurs move out of Tottenham that is the end, it doesn't matter how you dress it up.

How is it the end?

It's not about dressing anything up, the fact is if the club moves to Stratford it will still be the very same club, still have the same history and it should be (in my opinion) the club you love.

I really cannot understand how anyone could stop loving the club if it moved.

I understand many hating and grudging having to move and being sad at leaving the Lane and the area (much as we would all feel sad the day WHL is destroyed even if a new stadium were to be built in Tottenham)

To me, anyway you dress it up Spurs is still SPurs in Tottenham or in Stratford. We will always be super TOTTENHAM FROM THE LANE.

I am sure there are more than enough fans who think like me and will follow the club still because our love for the club is stronger than to allow a move to destroy that love.

I do feel sorry for those of you who feel so strongly about the N17 post code that you would give up on the club if it were to leave, and I am somewhat saddened that if we were to move the club would lose some of it's core and most passionate support (even though I am sure they would be replaced 4 fold if the club were to continue it's current success/progress)

I'm not looking down at those of you who would quit the club if we went to Stratford, I know you all love the club and are passionate about the club (other wise you would be indifferent about the move as why would you really care unless you loved the club?)

But I do wish everyone would continue to back the club regardless, and I suspect once the dust settles and people have time to adjust their love of the club will over ride their anger and despair at leaving the area.

Roll on decision time, at least then we all will know where we stand and can debate the pros and cons of this from a position of knowing the reality of our future as opposed to discussing it with IF's and Buts (who knows, we might not even have Stratford as an option and all this talk could be irrelevant still)

 

[bigturnip]

stop loving the club

give up on the club

quit the club

Never in a million years, Tottenham till I die. It is the current board who would be killing the club.

 

[AngerManagement]

In your opinion. I don't believe that 90% of fans only care about whether the club exists in some form and is successful, if that were true you wouldn't mind us becoming Sol Campbell is God FC of Doha. Perhaps we could merge with West Ham while we're at it?

And before anybody takes my comments too seriously, I know they are facetious, but the principles of the examples given are important, if they were to happen those who are open to the idea of moving to Stratford would have no right to object as long it was 'for the good' of the club.

No we would have every right to object, because the lines for which we consider intregral to the identity of the club are different for those of us who do not flat out oppose the move.

Moving away from the N17 post code destroy's the Identity of the club for you and others who strictly oppose the move...for others like me, we do not consider the area itself to be as integral to the clubs identity, i.e. whether we are still Tottenham Hotspur FC, or Spurs that is WHO we are....Tottenham N17 is merely our home, the place where we host our matches not WHO WE ARE.

Our Name is Who we are, changing it would cross boundries and take away from our identity as would merging with another club as it changes who we are.

ANd while your examples are as farcical as the notions that we would be forced to change our name to Stratford Hotspur if we moved and you are using extremes to support your opinions, such claims are not unheard of.

In rugby union, I am pretty sure London Irish, London Scottish and London Welsh were all merged and became London Irish only (with the other 2 teams setting up from the basics and playing in the lowest divisions...I know London Welsh are now based in a small ground off the A316 near Kew Gardens and play in the amature leagues)

But if Spurs were to be merged with West Ham and the West Ham name be used, or indeed Sol Campbell FC become the new name this would clearly change the club in a way in which the rebranding of Wimbledon to the MK Don's did....the club would be more like Liverpool to the break away Everton than it would be the same club.

It's about boundries to which one believes the club maintains it's identities. For you and others being intrinsically linked to N17 is part of who the club are more so it is who the club are and it cannot be supported by you if not in Tottenham, as I have said before in many posts I do understand the people who oppose the move and why they oppose it, I just don't agree with it.

 

[AngerManagement]

Never in a million years, Tottenham till I die. It is the current board who would be killing the club.

Ok, but still if the board killed the club in your eyes and moved it to Stratford.....you would still give up and turn your back on the club in it's new home no?

You would not support Tottenham Hotspur FC if it is not in Tottenham N17

 

[bigturnip]

Ok, but still if the board killed the club in your eyes and moved it to Stratford.....you would still give up and turn your back on the club in it's new home no?

I would never have supported the new club in Stratford and I will never turn my back on Tottenham. The only people giving up on Tottenham are those who accept Stratford.

You would not support Tottenham Hotspur FC if it is not in Tottenham N17

The new Stratford club may have the same name as the club I love, but it would never be the same club.

 

[AngerManagement]

I would never have supported the new club in Stratford and I will never turn my back on Tottenham. The only people giving up on Tottenham are those who accept Stratford.




The new Stratford club may have the same name as the club I love, but it would never be the same club.

Well in that case I will feel sorry for you and like minded supporters if we are given the go ahead for Stratford because you guys may well only have 4 years give or take left with the club you love.

 

[am_yisrael_chai]

I would endeavour to furnish accurate facts if I was you.

The protests about the Shelf occurred DURING Sugars time.

The bankruptcy issue was to do with Scholar getting the Club into a right financial mess due to such issues such as a disastrous exercise in clothing (Hummell) as well as, I daresay, some reckless spending in the transfer Market. What compounded it was that he turned to Robert Maxwell to bail him out, who initially agreed but then reneged on it in an effort to buy Tottenham himself. This is what left us on the cusp of bankruptcy NOT the Shelf protest nor its redesign.

The East Stand was changed to all seating in 1989, Sugar took over in 1991, so what exactly was the Shelf protest about when Sugar was in charge ?

What was it you said about furnishing accurate facts ? :wink:

 

[bigturnip]

Well in that case I will feel sorry for you and like minded supporters if we are given the go ahead for Stratford because you guys may well only have 4 years give or take left with the club you love.

If DL signs the contract for the OS, my only support will be in the neutral area of Craven Cottage when we play away to Fulham, not a chance I'm contributing a penny towards the club in Stratford.

 

[am_yisrael_chai]

Of course, if we were a club in any more than name Levy would organise a poll of members.

I checked the THST website to see if they had a view. It was last updated in March. Brilliant.

What would you have the poll ask ? It couldn't just be do you want to stay or go because that would assume it was financially neutral. If there was to be a poll then to me it is simple, poll all current season ticket holders and those on the waiting list and ask them if they're willing to make a one off payment of £4,000 each in order to stay at WHL because financially that is what would be required. What do you think the outcome of that poll would be ?

 

[bigturnip]

What would you have the poll ask ? It couldn't just be do you want to stay or go because that would assume it was financially neutral. If there was to be a poll then to me it is simple, poll all current season ticket holders and those on the waiting list and ask them if they're willing to make a one off payment of £4,000 each in order to stay at WHL because financially that is what would be required. What do you think the outcome of that poll would be ?

They don't require £222m to stay in Tottenham.

 

[am_yisrael_chai]

They don't require £222m to stay in Tottenham.

£200mil is the quoted difference, you'll have to excuse me for rounding.