The Biggest obstacle to young British coaches is old British coaches

[Bus-Conductor]

And this:

I think they may be doing what the do a little better, but I really don't think the philosophy has radically altered. and at 3 shots on target per game, they are drastically over pointed right now.

 

[steve]

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And last year?

 

[Bus-Conductor]

And last year?

I found these on BCscored.com:

Long Balls = Fucking loads

Short passes = Only by accident

Shots on target = Andre Grey, lucky if we keep it in the stadium innit.



As you can see, pretty similar Steve.

 

[nailsy]

You would think some of these clubs might just look at what clubs like Southampton, Leicester, Watford and maybe even Bournemouth have done. All of whom have outperformed the clubs that keep appointing these so called "safe hand" managers.

Would these clubs really be any worse off now if they'd left DeBoer or Koeman in place to work through the problems. Look at DeBoer, no Zaha, Benteke etc and Palace's results have barely picked up at all, same Everton, they've been worse under Unsworth, the problems (and I said this in the other people's transfer thread) were clearly one of losing a uber striker and being a shit load of players that all need time to settle and assimilate into some kind of team.

Everyone keeps going on about Dyche, but all he's done is organise. He's just another Pullis, Allardyce etc. That's fine, but it will always have it's limitations. I'm not sure Eddie Howe is a coaching or tactical genius, but what he's a achieved at Bournemouth is pretty impressive, going through four divisions - at least he has a slightly more ambitious and expansive outlook than merely "organisational fortitude". And he also doesn't act like a king size cock every time he's in front of camera like Dyche does.

Not sure how you can say Palace haven't improved. They hadn't scored when De Boer left, since then they've beaten Chelsea and only lost one game in four during November. Most importantly they are actually scoring now.
Saying that sacking the manager so early in the season was ridiculous, especially when they didn't have Zaha playing. It's impossible to say whether De Boer would have got better results if he was given time to turn things around.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Not sure how you can say Palace haven't improved. They hadn't scored when De Boer left, since then they've beaten Chelsea and only lost one game in four during November. Most importantly they are actually scoring now.
Saying that sacking the manager so early in the season was ridiculous, especially when they didn't have Zaha playing. It's impossible to say whether De Boer would have got better results if he was given time to turn things around.

I watched DeBoer's last game away at Burnley and Palace were all over them, and created chances, they just couldn't score. Then Zaha (and then Benteke) comes back.

I don't think they are or will play better football under Hodgson than they did in that game, but I think they probably would have done if they'd stuck with DeBoer and see how things went with Zaha and Benteke back. I don't think they will get a crack at moving forward as a club like they had with DeBoer again anytime soon. I just do not understand any kind of logic in hiring a coach like DeBoer - and it's not like he's all about gung ho attacking football, Ajax were called boring under him at times - and then getting all pissy pants after 4 games and swapping for someone like Hodgson.

Their results post DB have been pretty shit still. LLLWLDLDWD - That included losing at home to Southampton and drawing at home to Everton and West Ham. 9 points from 30.

 

[steve]

I found these on BCscored.com:

Long Balls = Fucking loads

Short passes = Only by accident

Shots on target = Andre Grey, lucky if we keep it in the stadium innit.



As you can see, pretty similar Steve.

Well I can't argue with that

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Well I can't argue with that

What I reckon is possibly the case with Burnley is that they haven't really changed their general approach much, but they have tweaked it slightly, playing 4411 more than the outright 442, and they have slightly improved the personnel doing it, ie, Jack Cork, Defour in CM, using Hendrick to connect the midfield to the forward and I think Wood is probably a cleverer forward than Grey.

 

[steve]

What I reckon is possibly the case with Burnley is that they haven't really changed their general approach much, but they have tweaked it slightly, playing 4411 more than the outright 442, and they have slightly improved the personnel doing it, ie, Jack Cork, Defour in CM, using Hendrick to connect the midfield to the forward and I think Wood is probably a cleverer forward than Grey.

Agree with all that. I wasn't talking revolution by any means, just a slight evolution. The reason I came out with my earlier shite is that i've watched them a few times recently and was surprised at some of the footy played. Woods is a defo upgrade (and very different) striker on Gray who is quick and shit.

 

[nailsy]

I watched DeBoer's last game away at Burnley and Palace were all over them, and created chances, they just couldn't score. Then Zaha (and then Benteke) comes back.

I don't think they are or will play better football under Hodgson than they did in that game, but I think they probably would have done if they'd stuck with DeBoer and see how things went with Zaha and Benteke back. I don't think they will get a crack at moving forward as a club like they had with DeBoer again anytime soon. I just do not understand any kind of logic in hiring a coach like DeBoer - and it's not like he's all about gung ho attacking football, Ajax were called boring under him at times - and then getting all pissy pants after 4 games and swapping for someone like Hodgson.

Their results post DB have been pretty shit still. LLLWLDLDWD - That included losing at home to Southampton and drawing at home to Everton and West Ham. 9 points from 30.

I think we can both agree that De Boers time in charge was too short to draw any conclusions from. Apparently Palace were totally lost in those first three games, but very good in the final one. The only thing I'll say about the run you mentioned - LLLWLDLDWD - is that the first two matches were against the two Manchester clubs. The injuries have definitely had an impact on results for both managers. De Boer only had Zaha available for one game, but had Benteke fit all four games, while Hodgson lost Benteke after one game and was left without any strikers, but he also had Zaha back in the team after his first game.
I'm not sure who was in charge of recruitment in the summer, but that seems to be the biggest issue to me.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I think we can both agree that De Boers time in charge was too short to draw any conclusions from. Apparently Palace were totally lost in those first three games, but very good in the final one. The only thing I'll say about the run you mentioned - LLLWLDLDWD - is that the first two matches were against the two Manchester clubs. The injuries have definitely had an impact on results for both managers. De Boer only had Zaha available for one game, but had Benteke fit all four games, while Hodgson lost Benteke after one game and was left without any strikers, but he also had Zaha back in the team after his first game.
I'm not sure who was in charge of recruitment in the summer, but that seems to be the biggest issue to me.

I’m pretty sure deboer never had Zaha available ?

 

[rossdapep]

I watched DeBoer's last game away at Burnley and Palace were all over them, and created chances, they just couldn't score. Then Zaha (and then Benteke) comes back.

I don't think they are or will play better football under Hodgson than they did in that game, but I think they probably would have done if they'd stuck with DeBoer and see how things went with Zaha and Benteke back. I don't think they will get a crack at moving forward as a club like they had with DeBoer again anytime soon. I just do not understand any kind of logic in hiring a coach like DeBoer - and it's not like he's all about gung ho attacking football, Ajax were called boring under him at times - and then getting all pissy pants after 4 games and swapping for someone like Hodgson.

Their results post DB have been pretty shit still. LLLWLDLDWD - That included losing at home to Southampton and drawing at home to Everton and West Ham. 9 points from 30.

Whilst I hate to see managers sacked after only having a few games to work their magic, I think the reasons for De Boer's removal were much bigger than simply the results. It was reported that the players weren't enjoying working with him and that there wasn't a healthy working relationship there. In this case I think CP had to do something because once you reach ten games and the problems intensify it starts to become a irreversible situation.

 

[nailsy]

I’m pretty sure deboer never had Zaha available ?

He played in the first game....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40835421