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The Case For Frank de Boer...continued

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KPSPUR

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Aug 31, 2012
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Not sure if this has been posted before, but De Boer according to Wikipedia, has been managing us since 2013:
upload_2014-4-27_19-46-55.png
 

Yid

Well Endowed Member
Jul 5, 2013
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If we all accept we are only a top 6/7 club as we stand and stick to a genuine 3 year plan and not EXPECT success then he is the perfect manager in my opinion

First of all, I'd be absolutely delighted to embrace Frank De Boer as our manager (for reasons that are too numerous to list here).

Secondly, you make some great points, m8. (y)
For instance, I agree with you 100% that FDB would be a perfect manager for us, *IF* we can stick to a 3-year plan by exhibiting self-discipline and patience (and refrain from making impulsive, & irrational decisions).

However, I don't think that necessarily means we should not expect success. Nor does it mean we have to limit ourselves to a 6th or a 7th place in the league.

I believe it simply means we should set reasonable expectations, by being (collectively) intelligent enough to realize sufficient time (and patience) are required in order to accomplish certain levels of success in the EPL.

There is no other way IMHO.

And the same rules apply to Tuchel, or Spalletti, or Pochettino, or any other young (or perhaps not-so-old) managerial candidate for that matter.

COYFS!

PS. All that said, I doubt we would be De Boer's 1st choice, had he decided to leave Ajax.
 

alpha

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Jun 27, 2005
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FDB all the way for me. And, the board need to come out with some statement, to the effect of that we will back FDB all the way. Only in the event of collapsing into relegation fodder should we bail out on a 3 year plan. FDB is the man to take Spurs forward.
 
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Hitch

Well-Known Member
Jan 4, 2012
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De Boer has a huge amount going for him and is appealing to me. However I'd be lying if I were to say the manner of Ajax's defeats to Salzburg in the Europa and more pertinently Pec Zwolle in the cup final don't greatly concern me. Salzburg at least are a good team but Zwolle? Can't recall another major club being so comprehensively beaten in a cup final by such an apparently inferior opponent.

That said I didn't see these games so there may have been more to it. Perhaps someone else could add context?
 

ilikeost

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Jul 17, 2012
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De Boer has a huge amount going for him and is appealing to me. However I'd be lying if I were to say the manner of Ajax's defeats to Salzburg in the Europa and more pertinently Pec Zwolle in the cup final don't greatly concern me. Salzburg at least are a good team but Zwolle? Can't recall another major club being so comprehensively beaten in a cup final by such an apparently inferior opponent.

That said I didn't see these games so there may have been more to it. Perhaps someone else could add context?
Wigan vs Manchester City?
 

Blake Griffin

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Oct 3, 2011
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is fdb another possession clone or does he have more strings to his bow? i haven't watched ajax in great detail for a while so i don't know.
 

Yid

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Jul 5, 2013
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Not entirely convinced by FDB

Very hard to judge players or managers on their successes in the Eredivisie. His Ajax side were dismantled 6-1 on aggregate by Red Bull Salzburg, and he just lost the Dutch cup final to PEC Zwolle, 5-1. Of course these may just be anomalies in another title winning season for Ajax, but they are little niggles on his CV. He knows Eriksen and Vertonghen of course, and he is well-schooled in the Ajax philosophy which is always a big plus point.

But to jump from that league to ours, as a manager, is quite a leap. You could argue AVB outperformed him in a slightly stronger league in Portugal, as well as winning the Europa League at a canter, albeit with a stronger squad.

I'd probably be quite happy if we did appoint him, but I just have a few reservations.

You express some concerns that are legitimate, and others that are not so valid.

The Salzburg blowout was a total fluke, and anyone who's followed Ajax for the last 3 years (on top of being familiar with Salzburg) knows that.

The drubbing by Zwolle in Rotterdam was an entirely different "can of worms". The game was stalled for over 30 minutes in the very beginning after Ajax opened the score (due to some knuckle-dragging idiots throwing rocket flares almost directly at the players near the PEC 18-yd box). In addition to disruptions, injuries (absence of Veltman was huge), and the Zwolle fan support being insanely great, the whole match was a weird cluster-fuck. Throw in the fact (that after the 30 minute delay) Thomas began to attack like a man possessed, and you will realize "the stars aligned perfectly" for PEC Zwolle that day. The stage was set for them to become the "Cinderella story" of the year. In the history of the club, they've never won the Dutch Royal (KNVB) Cup until this year's final vs Ajax (who incidentally won this trophy a total of 18 times).

That Portuguese Primeira Liga is slightly stronger than the Dutch Eredivisie is subject to argument.
While the top 3 perennial giants of Portugal (Porto, Benfica, & Sporting) are indeed a bit stronger than their respective counterparts in Holland (Ajax, PSV, & Feyenoord), the rest of the Eredivisie is (pound-for-pound) slightly more competitive than the remaining Primeira Liga clubs (Braga perhaps being the only exception to that rule).

Considering the argument above, plus the fact that AVB's Porto squad was not just stronger (but significantly stronger) than FDB's Ajax, I'd venture to say it's not plausible that AVB outperformed FDB under those circumstances.

Finally, to those who're concerned that FDB's similarities to AVB will have a negative impact, I'd say FDB in many ways is more flexible than AVB. Not just tactically, but also in his willingness to experiment and to adapt new ways of doing things.
Not to mention FDB's vast experience as a footballer (which AVB lacked) that makes him a more appealing candidate to players in general.

COYS
 
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Yid

Well Endowed Member
Jul 5, 2013
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Forgive me. By comprehensively beaten I mean absolutely mauled 5-1. A 1-0 loss to Wigan is not in the same category.

Are you really going to claim that a billionaire-owned Shiteh club (which was also a defending champion of arguably the strongest league in the World) full of primadonkeys -->> getting outplayed, out-hustled, and generally humiliated by championship-dwelling relegation fodder (a.k.a Wigan) in a Cup Final... is somehow less embarrassing than the Ajax loss to Zwolle?

Considering the fact Eredivisie is about 5 or 6 levels lower than the EPL, and Ajax is worth about 7 times less cash than Shiteh...Not to mention that Wigan has been relegated and Zwolle is still a mid-table club in the Eredivisie...The aforesaid comparison is not even remotely close to being fair. Just an FYI. ;)
 

Neon_Knight_

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2011
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Their goal difference +52, ours...... +2. Doesn't matter what your defence is like if you're going to score two or three more than you let in.

To win the league, you need to be able to score goals and keep clean sheets. It will matter very much when they lose out on the league title on goal difference, to Man City ;)

Chelsea showed today how important a solid defence is, compared to playing free-flowing attacking football...I'm glad you posted this before today's game. Real Madrid (who did the same against Bayern in the week), or United under Ferguson, would also consistently pick off this Liverpool side by prioritising defence. I'll be very surprised if Liverpool can challenge for the title again next year, playing the same style of football. Every team will "park the bus" against them.
 

Tom Pops

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Jan 13, 2014
2,293
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I think if LvG is done deal at Utd then De Boer will be seriously considered by Levy, something is telling me this guy will be our next Coach #hunch

Another person who hangs around on the forums, never posts, rating other people's posts as "Spam" because they disagree with it.

Can we not have a ban on that?
 
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dudu

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2011
5,314
11,048
You express some concerns that are legitimate, and others that are not so valid.

The Salzburg blowout was a total fluke, and anyone who's followed Ajax for the last 3 years (on top of being familiar with Salzburg) knows that.

The drubbing by Zwolle in Rotterdam was an entirely different "can of worms". The game was stalled for over 30 minutes in the very beginning after Ajax opened the score (due to some knuckle-dragging idiots throwing rocket flares almost directly at the players near the PEC 18-yd box). In addition to disruptions, injuries (absence of Veltman was huge), and the Zwolle fan support being insanely great, the whole match was a weird cluster-fuck. Throw in the fact (that after the 30 minute delay) Thomas began to attack like a man possessed, and you will realize "the stars aligned perfectly" for PEC Zwolle that day. The stage was set for them to become the "Cinderella story" of the year. In the history of the club, they've never won the Dutch Royal (KNVB) Cup until this year's final vs Ajax (who incidentally won this trophy a total of 18 times).

That Portuguese Primeira Liga is slightly stronger than the Dutch Eredivisie is subject to argument.
While the top 3 perennial giants of Portugal (Porto, Benfica, & Sporting) are indeed a bit stronger than their respective counterparts in Holland (Ajax, PSV, & Feyenoord), the rest of the Eredivisie is (pound-for-pound) slightly more competitive than the remaining Primeira Liga clubs (Braga perhaps being the only exception to that rule).

Considering the argument above, plus the fact that AVB's Porto squad was not just stronger (but significantly stronger) than FDB's Ajax, I'd venture to say it's not plausible that AVB outperformed FDB under those circumstances.

Finally, to those who're concerned that FDB's similarities to AVB will have a negative impact, I'd say FDB in many ways is more flexible than AVB. Not just tactically, but also in his willingness to experiment and to adapt new ways of doing things.
Not to mention FDB's vast experience as a footballer (which AVB lacked) that makes him a more appealing candidate to players in general.

COYS

Great post
 

Yid

Well Endowed Member
Jul 5, 2013
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is fdb another possession clone or does he have more strings to his bow? i haven't watched ajax in great detail for a while so i don't know.

Very interesting question.
Albeit one that cannot be fully answered in a brief time-frame.
I suppose I'll just provide a general idea of what FDB is about.

His system is influenced largely by Cruyff and LVG. He basically incorporates the best of both worlds.
Both Cruyff and LVG teach intelligent ball movement and possession-oriented, attacking style of football at its core.
Their primary difference of managerial philosophy lies within the "individual vs the team" concept.
While Cruyff (almost fully) embraced the "Total Futbol" idea of each individual player's versatility and ability to adjust according to the opposition's strengths and/or weaknesses...LVG emphasizes collective strength of the team as a cohesive unit. His players function as one, and communication amongst the center-halves, the full backs, the mids, the attackers, etc., is one the main keys to success on the pitch.
Whereas Cruyff values individual creativity and adaptability on the pitch more than the uniform compliance of a well-oiled machine (which is LVG's standard).

So in essence, Frank De Boer utilizes the individual training approach of Cruyff, yet he still promotes LVG's belief that no individual is greater than the team...with the added benefit of constantly developing young talent of Ajax academy (especially with his experience starting out as a youth coach at Ajax, after he left the Netherlands assistant manager position).

I hope this helps. ;)
 

thinktank

Hmmm...
Sep 28, 2004
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You express some concerns that are legitimate, and others that are not so valid.

The Salzburg blowout was a total fluke, and anyone who's followed Ajax for the last 3 years (on top of being familiar with Salzburg) knows that.
COYS

That was no fluke, mate. Salzburg battered them, hands down and fair and square.. Dunno what they had for breakfast, but they reamed them hard and FDB had no answers.
 
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