The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - 11 August 2011

[nailsy]

There has to come a time however, when the "uber optimists" have to stop getting semi's over how far we have come (which is not in question) and start concentrating on how far we still need to go in order to consistently challenge for a top four spot and heck why not even the title...given that it's 50 years since we last won it.

Many on these boards may have grown up on the mediocrity of the 1990's and early 2000's but some of us still remember when we used to compete even if it wasnt on a regular basis; and we remember too when we were one of the "top five". I understand fully that things have changed over the years, but what is wrong with demanding better? The last couple of seasons have been great. We can see the gap between ourselves and the teams above us closing. So what if fans want to see some action to close that gap still further?

It's not about being spoilt. It's about a desire to be the best you can be and to be taken seriously by your peers. If some people on these boards want to wallow in "look how far we have come" then that is fine. Most fans though want to see how far we can realistically go. What they dont want is to see the progress of the last few years pissed away so we can have a new transitional period in our history.

I agree with most of what you say, but I think the time to start moaning about how good the window has been is after the window shuts. The ITK's say we are looking at Rossi, Llorente, Adebayor, etc. If we sign one of them then we can hopefully challenge for the title. Give it three weeks, see who we end-up with then start questioning Levy.

 

[SpurSince57]

You obviously rate the likes of Keane, Crouch & Defoe a lot more highly than I do. It's a complete fallacy that we need top superstar strikers who demand massive wages to significantly improve on what we have up front. That is the only upside of having a frontline that are so poor.

I cannot believe we could not have identified one single striker who would have improved us and done it early - we could then play this game of chicken trying to get a top striker at the last minute. In that scenario, it's not a complete disaster if we don't get one. In the current one, it is.

You've been on here since 2006 and not seen deeply offended members of the Jermain Defoe Appreciation Society blubbing because I suggested he wasn't all that?

So what you're saying is, we should go out and blow £14m on another Stupor Pav?

 

[$hoguN]

You obviously rate the likes of Keane, Crouch & Defoe a lot more highly than I do. It's a complete fallacy that we need top superstar strikers who demand massive wages to significantly improve on what we have up front. That is the only upside of having a frontline that are so poor.

I cannot believe we could not have identified one single striker who would have improved us and done it early - we could then play this game of chicken trying to get a top striker at the last minute. In that scenario, it's not a complete disaster if we don't get one. In the current one, it is.

Name me some strikers who play for clubs outside the top 6 who would be actual significant improvements on our strikers?

People will say Doyle, who just like Crouch is a striker who doesn't score goals, others will say Klasnic who can't even get into a Blackburn team looking to play football.

Keane, Pav, Crouch and Defoe are all good strikers, and finding improvments who are worth the money they will cost is far from trivial. Couple that with this being the last summer agents can get silly wages for their players due to the ffp rules coming in, it is hardly surprising we have not signed a big name thus far.

 

[Max_Junglie]

we remember too when we were one of the "top five".

Things could be worse, we could be Everton...
Eek

Hoping for some better news today, all the different ITK about Diarra makes it seem like no-one knows what they're talking about!

Interesting take in the Guardian's preview about our difficulty in shifting the deadwood. Driving a hard bargain is good, but the fees being spoken of / money saved in wages pale in comparison to the riches on offer from CL qualification. Sometimes you have to take a loss to make a gain.

 

[razza]

What seems to escape some, though, is that the better you get the harder it is to improve, and finding a striker who is significantly better than what we have, who is happy to sign for us, and whose club is happy to sell him at a realistic price isn't exactly straightforward. Even should we sign a striker this window, you can guarantee that some people will complain; we saw that yesterday as soon as a rumour concerning Huntelaar came up. We look enviously at Hernandez now, wishing we'd signed him instead of another young Mexican, but what would have been the reaction on here if he'd been our striker signing last summer?

And assuming that just because we haven't had any 'ITK' nothing is happening is pretty dumb, to put it politely.

Great post,..while we welcome and love ITK, it is crazy to accept this as gospel. We should not plan protest marches due to Peanut of POTL not posting some type of bizzare clue.
I imagine lots of things are happening, but also we have to accept the team we have is not totally useless, it got us to 4th place in 2010, and we should have been 3rd this season had just one striker hit a bit of form. The way some poeple are posting its like we are a total toilet team.

 

[vonn]

If what he said after last nights game is anything to go by, there wont be a U-Turn statement imo. He'd of done it by now surely? :roll:

Thats why I used the winking smiley. Will be very surprised if he makes one. Doesn't matter though, does it?

 

[ryantegan]

Harry ain't happy people. Just had my gaffer ranting. I seems that he is being ignored. Is this te same old same old? Harry names targets and the board say cheers Harry, then shop elsewhere. Something is a miss here. We've still got a great squad of players but Harry is making it clear to some that they are welcome to stay when it seems the board want shot. Is this the hold up that the journo was alluding to?

I'd expect another "it's gonna be tough to finish 6th" speech anytime soon

 

[ryantegan]

Harry ain't happy people. Just had my gaffer ranting. I seems that he is being ignored. Is this te same old same old? Harry names targets and the board say cheers Harry, then shop elsewhere. Something is a miss here. We've still got a great squad of players but Harry is making it clear to some that they are welcome to stay when it seems the board want shot. Is this the hold up that the journo was alluding to?

I'd expect another "it's gonna be tough to finish 6th" speech anytime soon

 

[gavspur]

but a name I think we should seriously be looking at - Matt Jarvis at Wolves.

I've been thinking this for a while, a great option going forward. I'm stunned no-one has gone for him. Surely £10mill would prise him away from Wolves, and certainly the type of player we should be looking at.

 

[yozza]

Harry ain't happy people. Just had my gaffer ranting. I seems that he is being ignored. Is this te same old same old? Harry names targets and the board say cheers Harry, then shop elsewhere. Something is a miss here. We've still got a great squad of players but Harry is making it clear to some that they are welcome to stay when it seems the board want shot. Is this the hold up that the journo was alluding to?

I'd expect another "it's gonna be tough to finish 6th" speech anytime soon

Bugger! :-|

Cheers for the info though Ryan!

 

[Samson]

What seems to escape some, though, is that the better you get the harder it is to improve, and finding a striker who is significantly better than what we have, who is happy to sign for us, and whose club is happy to sell him at a realistic price isn't exactly straightforward. Even should we sign a striker this window, you can guarantee that some people will complain; we saw that yesterday as soon as a rumour concerning Huntelaar came up. We look enviously at Hernandez now, wishing we'd signed him instead of another young Mexican, but what would have been the reaction on here if he'd been our striker signing last summer?

And assuming that just because we haven't had any 'ITK' nothing is happening is pretty dumb, to put it politely.

It's the Odemwingie gambit. Defrouchenkeane isn't good enough, so we need a new striker. We can't get Llorente, so let's get Odemwingie. Whether they are better than our existing players by a sufficient margin to justify the expense is not important.

 

[Dan Ashcroft]

Harry ain't happy people. Just had my gaffer ranting. I seems that he is being ignored. Is this te same old same old? Harry names targets and the board say cheers Harry, then shop elsewhere. Something is a miss here. We've still got a great squad of players but Harry is making it clear to some that they are welcome to stay when it seems the board want shot. Is this the hold up that the journo was alluding to?

I'd expect another "it's gonna be tough to finish 6th" speech anytime soon

Ancelotti's targets :think:

 

[Monkeyface]

Harry ain't happy people. Just had my gaffer ranting. I seems that he is being ignored. Is this te same old same old? Harry names targets and the board say cheers Harry, then shop elsewhere. Something is a miss here. We've still got a great squad of players but Harry is making it clear to some that they are welcome to stay when it seems the board want shot. Is this the hold up that the journo was alluding to?

I'd expect another "it's gonna be tough to finish 6th" speech anytime soon

Thanks Ryan. Get all the info you can now, cos Harry isn't stupid and knows if his time is up and he's gonna get the bullet... Levy has a plan that's why the ITKs on Levys side are so very quiet...imo

 

[pablo73]

You've been on here since 2006 and not seen deeply offended members of the Jermain Defoe Appreciation Society blubbing because I suggested he wasn't all that?

So what you're saying is, we should go out and blow £14m on another Stupor Pav?

Fair point, that had escaped my memory.

I'm not saying that at all, I just can't believe that we are coming to the close of a third transfer window with the same inept strikeforce. I get the impression that there is no real strategy at the moment and we are being opportunist, so hoping for a last minute bargain. Anyway, as a few people have said, 01st September is the time to draw conclusions but I am not optimistic.

 

[tommyt]

Crossbow and a hatchet (but im from Belfast)

Or you could just get the WD40 out for the rusty guns :wink:

 

[InOffMeLeftShin]

Not sure Harry is the kind of person who can be ignored too easily. He's said in the past that he identifies the targets and then the rest is up to the chairman. I'd imagine that is what is happening, but it really isn't so easy to complete deals when there are still big teams offering big money in the market and players waiting to see if they are the one it is spent on. Once that is all sorted Levy may have more of a chance to complete something special.

I can't see that it is really anyone's fault, people can blame Levy all they want but if we want someone who is really better than what we have but if they are all asking for 200K a week then there isn't a lot we can do about it. Until the time comes when the wages people are asking for drop to a more reasonable level there probably isn't much that Levy can say to Harry.

 

[stokesy]

Ancelotti's targets :think:

We can but hope

 

[Paolo10]

What seems to escape some, though, is that the better you get the harder it is to improve, and finding a striker who is significantly better than what we have, who is happy to sign for us, and whose club is happy to sell him at a realistic price isn't exactly straightforward.

The only striker I think could still come good and score a rack of goals is JD and you see how loved/loathed he is on here! Pav, Crouch and Keane can all be easily significantly upgraded IMO.

Our profile has been raised in Europe last season, we have great players (3 or 4 could easily play for the best teams around) and we do have quite a healthy balance. The thing that is grating on everyone is the fact that we are dragging our heels, we were linked with Falcao before the Porto move, Luis Fabiano (bullet dodged), etc. etc. The list of striking targets we have been linked with in the last season and a bit must easily be 70 or so, maybe more.

You mean to tell me that the club can't get 1 out of 70 right? Some kind of fresh blood to compete now? There is something not sitting right, be it wages or penny pinching by DL, poor scouting from the backroom staff, HR being indecisive or whatever. There is something not right (I don't think it's Harry FWIW, our transfer history has been sketchy under DL way before Redknapp).

The fact we fluffed it in January and our strikers misfiring cost us the chance to regain a concurrent CL spot should have ensured that the situation we're in now did not happen again...suddenly, it's like "Whoops, oh shit, it's 2 days until the season starts...". Irons should have been still hot from the fire in January and something (a striker) should have been lined up to put the fanbase's minds at ease.

If you want the best stuff at the Next sale, you queue up all night, if you go on the last day you'll end up with something with a bizarre pattern or fabric and there'll be no Large sizes left. We've been shopping for a good while and have little to show for it besides a nice little orange number (it was a fucking bargain, but it doesn't quite fit right).

 

[thfc1989]

Levy is not wrong here, we have spent a hell of a lot of money over the last few windows, it has just for the most part been wasted on average squad players who we are now failing to shift. I am one of Harry's biggest supporters on here in terms of his achievements, but his record in the transfer window as highlighted in the thread in spurs chat suggests to me that he should not be given autonomy over transfers.

 

[Samson]

Harry ain't happy people. Just had my gaffer ranting. I seems that he is being ignored. Is this te same old same old? Harry names targets and the board say cheers Harry, then shop elsewhere. Something is a miss here. We've still got a great squad of players but Harry is making it clear to some that they are welcome to stay when it seems the board want shot. Is this the hold up that the journo was alluding to?

I'd expect another "it's gonna be tough to finish 6th" speech anytime soon

Harry won't be here come August 2012. Got to be tough on the relationship between the club and manager.