The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - 18 July 2011

[eddiev14]

How old was Michael Owen when he broke onto the scene at Liverpool? Pretty sure he was only just 17. I don't know why people think it's so unlikely this guy will play for two years - it's not like he's a ten year old...

 

[Berglad]

Harry has put the ball in Defoe's court. Told him that he wasnt good enough last season and didnt deserve to start. Like another itk said Harry is giving players a clean slate from pre season... All of the top four have 4 good strikers except Arsenal...and Harry wants to keep Pav,Defoe and Crouch and add 1 more striker... People are silly if they beleive Harry is going to sell at least two of those and re shape our forward line..

Yikes...is Defoe going to buckle down in training and become faster, be able to head the ball, be able to hold the ball up, to frighten defenders, to bring the midfield into play? It's not just that he was out of form and his shooting was off, he just doesn't have the tool-set to be a starting playing in our current team.

 

[kdspur]

dont get me wrong i love harry and best manager we had n 30 years imo but he needs to get fucking ruthless like fergie and bite the bullet on some strikers of ours ad tell them whats what and fucking do one! u cant be liked by everyone which i think there is element of that in harry.

 

[Hot-Spur]

You worry to much :lol:

One of Adebayor and Vucinic will be fine, Might bring the best out in the others.

Ate you sure? it would take someone very special to bring out the best in our lot :roll:

Support the youth team this year. They might win the league with their signings!:grin:

Good idea :wink:

woah. even if we don't sign anyone else we won't finish lower than 6th. Everton and Bolton haven't strengthened and Villa have lost their 2 best players.

I wish I had your confidence in that, just remembering our forward play last year and I get a cold shiver up my spine Eek

 

[ajspurs]

People are silly if they beleive Harry is going to sell at least two of those and re shape our forward line..

The scary thing is that Harry thinks we shouldn't re shape our forward line.

 

[fazza]

How old was Michael Owen when he broke onto the scene at Liverpool? Pretty sure he was only just 17. I don't know why people think it's so unlikely this guy will play for two years - it's not like he's a ten year old...

I agree totally, If he's good enough then age is irrelevant, Rooney, Owen etc, Not saying this kid will be on par with them but we just don't know, He could go on to be the next big thing.

 

[eddiev14]

He's around, just not posting at the moment, I suspect its because the team are thousands of miles aways.

 

[fazza]

You can overhaul to much you know, I'm all for one at a time, bring one striker in now say Adebayor or Vucinic, then wait til January, maybe bring a second in then, If you mess around with the team too much thats just as bad. It will be easier for the new striker to settle if hes part of an established team and forward group.

 

[CorlukaModric]

It's what we basically had the whole of last season though. If Harry intends to continue playing this current system we can't have 4 strikers. VDV may not be a striker but he is a no10 like Keane.

Last year we went from Keane, Defoe, Crouch, Pav to VDV, Defoe, Crouch, Pav. VDV is a guranteed starter which would leave 4 players playing for 1 position unless Harry goes back to 4-4-2.

We can't have:

VDV

Defoe/Crouch/Pav/New Striker​

All i was told is that people need to stop thinking Harry is going to suddenly reshape our whole forward line. Transfers these days are extremely difficult and although it makes sense selling 2 strikers and bringing 2 in, its also very risky...What happens if we suddenly sell Defoe + Crouch and then we cant sign replacements??!! I hope we sell Crouch + Keane and bring in Vucinic/Rossi + Adebayor and give Defoe one last chance till January... Maybe Harry is gonna go back to 4-4-2 which got us into the top 4 and play VDV on the right?? :shrug:

 

[Spurger King]

How old was Michael Owen when he broke onto the scene at Liverpool? Pretty sure he was only just 17. I don't know why people think it's so unlikely this guy will play for two years - it's not like he's a ten year old...

Don't get me wrong...I'd love to see Harry take a risk on one or both of the teenage strikers. Ceballos is 18, which I reckon is old enough. I remember Barmby, Fowler, and later as you mention, Owen all arriving with a bang at around that age.

I just don't see Harry giving them a chance in a Premiership game.

 

[shaqTHFC]

All i was told is that people need to stop thinking Harry is going to suddenly reshape our whole forward line. Transfers these days are extremely difficult and although it makes sense selling 2 strikers and bringing 2 in, its also very risky...What happens if we suddenly sell Defoe + Crouch and then we cant sign replacements??!! I hope we sell Crouch + Keane and bring in Vucinic/Rossi + Adebayor and give Defoe one last chance till January... Maybe Harry is gonna go back to 4-4-2 which got us into the top 4 and play VDV on the right?? :shrug:

He did play VDV on the right more towards the end of the season. I think the balance of VDV - Modric - Sandro - Bale and Walker flying down the right mirrors that of Lennon - Hudd - Palacios - Modric with Bale flying down the left that we had before VDV. The only problem for me is whether that nullifies VDV's goalscoring threat, and whether it's as defensively solid as the older midfield.

 

[eddiev14]

Don't get me wrong...I'd love to see Harry take a risk on one or both of the teenage strikers. Ceballos is 18, which I reckon is old enough. I remember Barmby, Fowler, and later as you mention, Owen all arriving with a bang at around that age.

I just don't see Harry giving them a chance in a Premiership game.

You're right, but sometimes you can't ignore a talent if it is that good.

Owen was given a few sub appearances post New Year in 1997/98. He took them and made such a great impression on the fans and the manager that he couldn't be ignored. Got into the team, did well and was called up by Hoddle to the France 98 squad. The rest is history, and at no point did he look out of his depth. In fact he relished it, even against a World Class team like Argentina.

Let's see how this kid gets on, but it's bloody exciting to have signed him. Sometimes they are just too good.

 

[Mr Pink]

VDV on the right of a 4-4-2 is not what I want to see...unless your talking about two absolute star signings up top, but certainly not to accomodate the likes of Defoe....:bang:

VDV is at his best playing off the striker, we need that uber striker up top - we have the rest of the side sorted, by in large, if we can sort a proper front man.

 

[shaqTHFC]

VDV on the right of a 4-4-2 is not what I want to see...unless your talking about two absolute star signings up top, but certainly not to accomodate the likes of Defoe....:bang:

VDV is at his best playing off the striker, we need that uber striker up top - we have the rest of the side sorted, by in large, if we can sort a proper front man.

VDV on the right will only work in a 4-2-3-1 imo where the "3" can interchange and are expected to be high up the pitch scoring goals as there's only 1 striker. He'd also have less defensive work to do as we'd have a solid base in the 2 defensive midfielders.

 

[ajspurs]

VDV on the right of a 4-4-2 is not what I want to see...unless your talking about two absolute star signings up top, but certainly not to accomodate the likes of Defoe....:bang:

VDV is at his best playing off the striker, we need that uber striker up top - we have the rest of the side sorted, by in large, if we can sort a proper front man.

Agreed.

Only think that would make up for VDV on the right is if we had players like Adebayor and Rossi up top.

 

[Berglad]

You can overhaul to much you know, I'm all for one at a time, bring one striker in now say Adebayor or Vucinic, then wait til January, maybe bring a second in then, If you mess around with the team too much thats just as bad. It will be easier for the new striker to settle if hes part of an established team and forward group.

All i was told is that people need to stop thinking Harry is going to suddenly reshape our whole forward line. Transfers these days are extremely difficult and although it makes sense selling 2 strikers and bringing 2 in, its also very risky...What happens if we suddenly sell Defoe + Crouch and then we cant sign replacements??!! I hope we sell Crouch + Keane and bring in Vucinic/Rossi + Adebayor and give Defoe one last chance till January... Maybe Harry is gonna go back to 4-4-2 which got us into the top 4 and play VDV on the right?? :shrug:

It is tough to entirely overhaul the strike force in one window but we needed to replace one last summer and one in January and we did neither, so we need to do it now. Last summer we blew it and stuck with we had, hoping they'd be good enough to tide us over, but they were an utter embarassment, with the possible exceptions of Pav and Crouch (in the Champ's league). Champions league aside, our form last season was horrific and only an extraordinary goal contribution from VDV and Bale (in the first half at least ) kept up us in the top half.

I wouldn't really have minded if we didn't have Crouch and Defoe available all last season...I would have played happily played Kranjcar up front over Defoe in that form, he couldn't have been any worse. I'm fine with keeping Pav and Crouch who are okay backups/subs and Crouch in particular probably isn't really worth enough to sell, but neither one should be starting for us outside of cups/emergencies and I don't see a use for Defoe at all.

Harry wants us to sign one striker and it be Rossi...£30M and the team balance would only be somewhat better. But not pay another £5-7M net to replace Defoe or Crouch with Vucinic or Berbatov or Adebayor? The risk is in NOT replacing our strikers, not replacing too many of them. They have all had their chances and we know they aren't good enough for the level we want the club to be at.

 

[eddiev14]

I agree about VDV. Hate it when he plays on the right as his greatest ability - his creativity - is completely lost as the team loses shape and basically focusses on hurling it out to Bale or going through an overcrowded middle.

Goals from the side ITK interests me, because I think that if we bought a good technical link up striker like Vucinic, and maybe a wide goal threat like Mata, we would start unlocking teams a lot more and get the most out of VDV in the central position.

Modric Sandro

Mata VDV Bale

Vucinic

Lots of movement, good technical players, and more goals. It sort of makes sense to me.

You guys dig?

 

[matrixity]

Theres an article in Mirror tonight about us willing to pay 75000 a week of the 175000 a week Adebayor earn at City. It mentions that a deal could be done as we are willing to pay a fee for the loan as long as City pay the rest of the wages.
I still prefer Vucinic but maybe we could get both as Adebayor would only be on loan?

 

[CorlukaModric]

It is tough to entirely overhaul the strike force in one window but we needed to replace one last summer and one in January and we did neither, so we need to do it now. Last summer we blew it and stuck with we had, hoping they'd be good enough to tide us over, but they were an utter embarassment, with the possible exceptions of Pav and Crouch (in the Champ's league). Champions league aside, our form last season was horrific and only an extraordinary goal contribution from VDV and Bale (in the first half at least ) kept up us in the top half.

I wouldn't really have minded if we didn't have Crouch and Defoe available all last season...I would have played happily played Kranjcar up front over Defoe in that form, he couldn't have been any worse. I'm fine with keeping Pav and Crouch who are okay backups/subs and Crouch in particular probably isn't really worth enough to sell, but neither one should be starting for us outside of cups/emergencies and I don't see a use for Defoe at all.

Harry wants us to sign one striker and it be Rossi...£30M and the team balance would only be somewhat better. But not pay another £5-7M net to replace Defoe or Crouch with Vucinic or Berbatov or Adebayor? The risk is in NOT replacing our strikers, not replacing too many of them. They have all had their chances and we know they aren't good enough for the level we want the club to be at.

I agree with you...Our strikers were awful last season especially in the premiership...We need to replace Crouch and Pav in my opinion but its not easy. Personally i think we fucked up when we didnt spend big last summer after getting qualification for the CL...That was our time to make a statement and we didn't...

 

[Spurvert]

Vucinic Adebayor



Bale. Modric. VDV


Sandro/Diarra



Would this work do you think? I agree about Rafa being nullified on the right but we'd have a better strike force with that?