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The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - 19th July

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Hoopspur

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Jun 28, 2012
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I was at dinner recently with a highly influential person in the world of PL football (not spurs related) and the subject got on to Spurs as it always does when I talk to football people. This guy was very insightful and he said Spurs have a massive problem at the moment, that they have out performed their wage bill for two-three years now and the upward pressure on wages at the club is immense as players and their agents will only out perform their wage levels for 1-2 years max.

So with transfers we are pretty much reduced to buying players under the age of 25 with potential and lower wages otherwise there will be whole sale revolt in the dressing room with everyone wanting more wages.

He used Kane as an example, apparently Kane's wages are circa £100,000 per week when his true value is £200,000 per week in the current market. How long would anyone stick around in their current job if they were getting paid 1/2 their current rate?

The general feeling is Kyle Walker went as he was the first to make noises about earning potential, and as he had only 3-4 years left at the top he needed to move now and Spurs were not prepared to keep him and upset the wage structure and the dressing room.

With all of this in mind, we are shopping for players in the last year of their contract (Wanyama, Barkley etc.) or unproven players with loads of potential with a success rate of lower than 50:50.

This is why our transfer business is so difficult we are in the 'no-mans land' of transfers. Not rich enough to play at the top table, and too good to buy the shit that the other PL teams are buying.

Look at our team! We lucked out with the fact that young players came good (Rose, Kane), astute buys paid off (Wanyama, Alderviewelrd, Son), Old buys started to perform (Dembele, Vertonghen) and a once in a 20 year occurrence of unearthing Dele Alli!

We have had more than our fair share of luck in the transfer market admittedly offset by Sissoko, Njie, Janssen etc. I get the feeling we will bring in 2-3 max with only 1 impacting the first XI. Looking at past years we have not impacted the first XI by more than 1-2 players each window.
Think it demonstrates really well the importance of Poch. I'm convinced his man management coupled with tactics are key. The system is king. No single player is more important than this.
 

Everlasting Seconds

Well-Known Member
Jan 9, 2014
14,914
26,616
Don't wanna cane levy but feel he's well out of his depth in the current market, that's just my opinion before the abuse starts
He has in a way had this problem for a long time, but it used to only be in relation to strikers. He could still manage the transfer market for other positions, but the market for strikers was set apart from the rest. This year, the same crazy frenzy has spread to all positions, and we find our selves in a bit of a limbo I'm afraid, IMO.
 

easley91

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2011
18,720
53,767
The amount of doom and gloom in here is hilarious to me. We don't need wholesale changes. Just a very few to come in, if that.

IMO we'll get Barkley and at least one more. With the youth we don't need a whole lot.
 

thebenjamin

Well-Known Member
Jul 1, 2008
12,164
38,545
Honestly f*** them all. How crazy is this football market? Sounds like they have trouble to pay their rent or feed their family. "I only earn 100k a week..mimimi"...ffs

It's all relative though. Double your money is double your money, no matter what business you're in.

If a movie star is offered $30M to do one movie, or $60M to do another, which one are they going to do? They may prefer the script and director of the first one, but they're going to do the second.
 

mmillerlight

Member
Jun 16, 2009
59
91
I was at dinner recently with a highly influential person in the world of PL football (not spurs related) and the subject got on to Spurs as it always does when I talk to football people. This guy was very insightful and he said Spurs have a massive problem at the moment, that they have out performed their wage bill for two-three years now and the upward pressure on wages at the club is immense as players and their agents will only out perform their wage levels for 1-2 years max.

So with transfers we are pretty much reduced to buying players under the age of 25 with potential and lower wages otherwise there will be whole sale revolt in the dressing room with everyone wanting more wages.

He used Kane as an example, apparently Kane's wages are circa £100,000 per week when his true value is £200,000 per week in the current market. How long would anyone stick around in their current job if they were getting paid 1/2 their current rate?

The general feeling is Kyle Walker went as he was the first to make noises about earning potential, and as he had only 3-4 years left at the top he needed to move now and Spurs were not prepared to keep him and upset the wage structure and the dressing room.

With all of this in mind, we are shopping for players in the last year of their contract (Wanyama, Barkley etc.) or unproven players with loads of potential with a success rate of lower than 50:50.

This is why our transfer business is so difficult we are in the 'no-mans land' of transfers. Not rich enough to play at the top table, and too good to buy the shit that the other PL teams are buying.

Look at our team! We lucked out with the fact that young players came good (Rose, Kane), astute buys paid off (Wanyama, Alderviewelrd, Son), Old buys started to perform (Dembele, Vertonghen) and a once in a 20 year occurrence of unearthing Dele Alli!

We have had more than our fair share of luck in the transfer market admittedly offset by Sissoko, Njie, Janssen etc. I get the feeling we will bring in 2-3 max with only 1 impacting the first XI. Looking at past years we have not impacted the first XI by more than 1-2 players each window.
However those players may not of become as good as they are if it were not for our Poch. Also if if we do really well and actually win something players may be willing to sacrifice wages to keep team. This trend is happening with the best NBA team where they sacrifice wages to allow the best chance of trophies within salary cap. We need to show players we have ambition though through our transfers.
 

the yid

Well-Known Member
Dec 14, 2010
2,559
11,473
I was at dinner recently with a highly influential person in the world of PL football (not spurs related) and the subject got on to Spurs as it always does when I talk to football people. This guy was very insightful and he said Spurs have a massive problem at the moment, that they have out performed their wage bill for two-three years now and the upward pressure on wages at the club is immense as players and their agents will only out perform their wage levels for 1-2 years max.

So with transfers we are pretty much reduced to buying players under the age of 25 with potential and lower wages otherwise there will be whole sale revolt in the dressing room with everyone wanting more wages.

He used Kane as an example, apparently Kane's wages are circa £100,000 per week when his true value is £200,000 per week in the current market. How long would anyone stick around in their current job if they were getting paid 1/2 their current rate?

The general feeling is Kyle Walker went as he was the first to make noises about earning potential, and as he had only 3-4 years left at the top he needed to move now and Spurs were not prepared to keep him and upset the wage structure and the dressing room.

With all of this in mind, we are shopping for players in the last year of their contract (Wanyama, Barkley etc.) or unproven players with loads of potential with a success rate of lower than 50:50.

This is why our transfer business is so difficult we are in the 'no-mans land' of transfers. Not rich enough to play at the top table, and too good to buy the shit that the other PL teams are buying.

Look at our team! We lucked out with the fact that young players came good (Rose, Kane), astute buys paid off (Wanyama, Alderviewelrd, Son), Old buys started to perform (Dembele, Vertonghen) and a once in a 20 year occurrence of unearthing Dele Alli!

We have had more than our fair share of luck in the transfer market admittedly offset by Sissoko, Njie, Janssen etc. I get the feeling we will bring in 2-3 max with only 1 impacting the first XI. Looking at past years we have not impacted the first XI by more than 1-2 players each window.

This is my biggest fear!!! I feel we can afford to up our players wages to ATLEAST £150k with bonuses knowone would kick off but unfortunately Levy hasn't moved with the times! I fear it'll shatter around us
 

King of Otters

Well-Known Member
Jun 11, 2012
10,751
36,093
I was at dinner recently with a highly influential person in the world of PL football (not spurs related) and the subject got on to Spurs as it always does when I talk to football people. This guy was very insightful and he said Spurs have a massive problem at the moment, that they have out performed their wage bill for two-three years now and the upward pressure on wages at the club is immense as players and their agents will only out perform their wage levels for 1-2 years max.

So with transfers we are pretty much reduced to buying players under the age of 25 with potential and lower wages otherwise there will be whole sale revolt in the dressing room with everyone wanting more wages.

He used Kane as an example, apparently Kane's wages are circa £100,000 per week when his true value is £200,000 per week in the current market. How long would anyone stick around in their current job if they were getting paid 1/2 their current rate?

The general feeling is Kyle Walker went as he was the first to make noises about earning potential, and as he had only 3-4 years left at the top he needed to move now and Spurs were not prepared to keep him and upset the wage structure and the dressing room.

With all of this in mind, we are shopping for players in the last year of their contract (Wanyama, Barkley etc.) or unproven players with loads of potential with a success rate of lower than 50:50.

This is why our transfer business is so difficult we are in the 'no-mans land' of transfers. Not rich enough to play at the top table, and too good to buy the shit that the other PL teams are buying.

Look at our team! We lucked out with the fact that young players came good (Rose, Kane), astute buys paid off (Wanyama, Alderviewelrd, Son), Old buys started to perform (Dembele, Vertonghen) and a once in a 20 year occurrence of unearthing Dele Alli!

We have had more than our fair share of luck in the transfer market admittedly offset by Sissoko, Njie, Janssen etc. I get the feeling we will bring in 2-3 max with only 1 impacting the first XI. Looking at past years we have not impacted the first XI by more than 1-2 players each window.

Great post. Actually quite worrying when you stop to think about how much our best players could be earning elsewhere.

Doesn't really seem sustainable in the long term, does it?
 

Joshua

Well-Known Member
Jan 31, 2015
2,213
12,952
I was at dinner recently with a highly influential person in the world of PL football (not spurs related) and the subject got on to Spurs as it always does when I talk to football people. This guy was very insightful and he said Spurs have a massive problem at the moment, that they have out performed their wage bill for two-three years now and the upward pressure on wages at the club is immense as players and their agents will only out perform their wage levels for 1-2 years max.

So with transfers we are pretty much reduced to buying players under the age of 25 with potential and lower wages otherwise there will be whole sale revolt in the dressing room with everyone wanting more wages.

He used Kane as an example, apparently Kane's wages are circa £100,000 per week when his true value is £200,000 per week in the current market. How long would anyone stick around in their current job if they were getting paid 1/2 their current rate?

The general feeling is Kyle Walker went as he was the first to make noises about earning potential, and as he had only 3-4 years left at the top he needed to move now and Spurs were not prepared to keep him and upset the wage structure and the dressing room.

With all of this in mind, we are shopping for players in the last year of their contract (Wanyama, Barkley etc.) or unproven players with loads of potential with a success rate of lower than 50:50.

This is why our transfer business is so difficult we are in the 'no-mans land' of transfers. Not rich enough to play at the top table, and too good to buy the shit that the other PL teams are buying.

Look at our team! We lucked out with the fact that young players came good (Rose, Kane), astute buys paid off (Wanyama, Alderviewelrd, Son), Old buys started to perform (Dembele, Vertonghen) and a once in a 20 year occurrence of unearthing Dele Alli!

We have had more than our fair share of luck in the transfer market admittedly offset by Sissoko, Njie, Janssen etc. I get the feeling we will bring in 2-3 max with only 1 impacting the first XI. Looking at past years we have not impacted the first XI by more than 1-2 players each window.
One of the best posts I've seen on here. Sums us up perfectly.
 

thebenjamin

Well-Known Member
Jul 1, 2008
12,164
38,545
Great post. Actually quite worrying when you stop to think about how much our best players could be earning elsewhere.

Doesn't really seem sustainable in the long term, does it?

It isn't. We need to pay them more or they will leave. Really is that simple.
 

Hotspurious

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2016
518
2,072
It's all relative though. Double your money is double your money, no matter what business you're in.

If a movie star is offered $30M to do one movie, or $60M to do another, which one are they going to do? They may prefer the script and director of the first one, but they're going to do the second.
Actors take pay cuts all the time to work with particular directors or on particular projects. Money is a factor and an important one. But it's not the only one and its importance varies by individual. If money was the only factor, half of the PL's players would be in China right now.
 

Spurs' Pipe Dreams

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Aug 14, 2011
20,008
32,728
It's all relative though. Double your money is double your money, no matter what business you're in.

If a movie star is offered $30M to do one movie, or $60M to do another, which one are they going to do? They may prefer the script and director of the first one, but they're going to do the second.

But that's simply not true, many actors have turned down shit roles for lots of money and done other projects. The same can be said for some footballers, yes, money is important but so is happiness, job satisfaction, where you live, family, workmates. If it was just about the money then our whole first team would've been sold a long time ago.....
 

spurslenny

I hate football
Nov 24, 2006
7,543
6,519
We can't afford to pay the going rate of 150k and upward?

So let's play it out logically.....

Scenario 1. We add 1 or 2 to the squad, win the league, get to last 16 of CL. A certain percentage of our first team are likely to say 'well we delivered a trophy, either A, pay us the going rate for League winners (150k upwards), or B, 'time to move on (having achieved something for you)'

Scenario 2. We add a couple of players, we struggle and finish 4th and get to the last 16 of the CL. Players (rightly/wrongly) want to leave to win things and get payed their 150k and upwards.


Basically, we're screwed......unless we start stumping up the going rate for what our players are worth. Which we can't.

Big problems.
 

jolegend

Well-Known Member
Jul 8, 2005
3,888
3,076
Good post that. However, if that is where we are on transfers, why not increase wage budget to retain those we cant afford to replace and reduce the transfer budget?

I would be far more comfortable knowing our players are on a par with their peers and being paid what they deserve. Rather than neither spending on improving our team or paying the going rate of wages to our current squad.

Take the example of Kane. If we lost him because we wouldnt pay him £200k per week, we would end up replacing him with someone like Arnautovic...reportedly on £100k per werk at West Ham.

Levy is a schrewd and highly intelligent chap. I hope he knows what he is doing.
 

carpediem991

Well-Known Member
May 31, 2011
8,836
20,308
It's all relative though. Double your money is double your money, no matter what business you're in.

If a movie star is offered $30M to do one movie, or $60M to do another, which one are they going to do? They may prefer the script and director of the first one, but they're going to do the second.

If money is the key to make you a happier person then so it is. I for myself have another view on life. Passion for what you do and the place where you do it (far away from friends and family or not) could be considered as well. Especially when you earn enough to buy whatever you want anyway. Personally I could earn more so I can relate to the topic and for me it is not even about 1k a week.

I understand this is how it works today, but it still shocks me that so much is just about money and more money...

As the market works I hope our club pays what is necessary to keep the core happy...
 

Spurs' Pipe Dreams

Well-Known Member
Aug 14, 2011
20,008
32,728
All this doom and gloom and exactly the same shit was said last year and the year before and people cheered when we signed Sissoko :banghead:

Truth is we don't know what will happen this season and/or who we'll sign, we're lucky we have an inkling with ITK but salt people, remember salt and the fact we've improved ever since Pochettino has come in.....
 

ginola99

Well-Known Member
Sep 4, 2005
677
1,403
In 2008, most clubs match day revenue, arguably the most stable as fans are generally loyal, was roughly 40% of a top flight club's revenue. This year though that figure is 20%, and falling, as the TV deal kicks in.

If Sky went bust like ITV Digital, highly unlikely, but if they did 80% of the PL's clubs would be liquidated over night.

Also, whilst there is no doubt a danger of players getting fed up of our wage ceiling, it's worth noting that that same policy has seen us improve in each of the last 3 seasons, and significantly so.

New stadium or not, I honestly feel this market is madness and I personally don't want to get us to get involved. All that matters to me is that Poch has players he wants and believes in come the end of August.
 

am_yisrael_chai

Well-Known Member
Feb 18, 2006
6,409
10,931
We can't afford to pay the going rate of 150k and upward?

So let's play it out logically.....

Scenario 1. We add 1 or 2 to the squad, win the league, get to last 16 of CL. A certain percentage of our first team are likely to say 'well we delivered a trophy, either A, pay us the going rate for League winners (150k upwards), or B, 'time to move on (having achieved something for you)'

Scenario 2. We add a couple of players, we struggle and finish 4th and get to the last 16 of the CL. Players (rightly/wrongly) want to leave to win things and get payed their 150k and upwards.


Basically, we're screwed......unless we start stumping up the going rate for what our players are worth. Which we can't.

Big problems.
Who says we can't ? Everyone here seems to forget that just like the other PL clubs we are also getting a huge increase in TV revenues. Yes we are building a stadium but it is funded with long term finance secured by season ticket sales not by us using other commercial revenue. Most importantly, we still haven't signed a stadium naming rights deal, if done correctly this should add a very material new revenue stream. ENIC own half the property around the High Road and are going to make a packet from the regeneration. There is money at Spurs, the only question is whether Daniel Levy and Joe Lewis want to spend it.
 

gerishep

Connected to the Spurs.
Aug 2, 2004
1,159
1,955
The amount of doom and gloom in here is hilarious to me. We don't need wholesale changes. Just a very few to come in, if that.

IMO we'll get Barkley and at least one more. With the youth we don't need a whole lot.
Others are improving their 1st team and squad, we are standing still.
 
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