The Daily ITK Discussion Thread 21st May

[dagraham]

If Wanyama and Dembele go, am I confident that we'll get 3 CMs of sufficient quality in? Nope.

Why would we need 3?

 

[Twizzle]

because 3 is better than 2

 

[Sweetsman]

I'm still on tenterhooks about the most important signing for our club: Pochettino signing a contract extension. Everything else pales in comparison, especially after Mourinho's latest artistic offering and the likes of G Neville touting for Poch.

 

[Hoopspur]

If Wanyama and Dembele go, am I confident that we'll get 3 CMs of sufficient quality in? Nope.

2 will do. The Colombian guy and a top ball player. We have Winks, Dier, Sissoko, Eriksen and these new two to cover those 2 positions. I do think we'd need at least one very decent player though. Maybe a Maddison type at a push as back up too (although he is more of a Eriksen back up).

 

[WiganSpur]

Why would we need 3?

I'd always thought we needed a midfielder as is as we can't rely on Dembele's fitness. Personally i'd wanted us to move Dier back to CB with Toby going but it doesn't seem like we want to go down that route with all the ITK we've had on De Ligt. I think we should keep Wanyama, sell Dembele and get 2 CMs in.

 

[Spurs' Pipe Dreams]

Happy with the Wanyama news, he's a beast but roams too much for me and can leave the back line exposed, his passing is also suspect. A proper all action midfielder will really make the difference in transition and although Dembele can perform this role, we sadly have probably seen the best of him.

Certainly sounds like a summer of transition while moving into the new stadium but De Ligt to replace Toby, 1 or 2 CM's to replace Mouss/sa x2 and Vic makes sense to. Gareth would just be the icing on the cake and would certainly make a statement, that it's being worked on, normally means we haven't been knocked back by RM or his advisors yet

 

[Lilbaz]

because 3 is better than 2

Bollocks!

 

[Yid-ol]

because 3 is better than 2

Is 3 Wenger's better than 1 pochettino?

Quality over quantity.

 

[LeParisien]

Here to echo my worries over the implications of the itk.

Last season Everton made a large number of signings, many of whom were highly rated, but I could tell there would be problems. Bringing in a lot of new players means it takes longer for each one to figure out the culture of the club. The culture risks being diluted or changed.

That might be a good thing if you want the culture to change quickly (bringing in lots of new faces is exactly what you would do) and you scouted thoroughly for personality. But the culture at spurs is very good so we have to be careful.

Everyone wants to upgrade the quality of playing staff in key positions but you have to manage the costs of that change - not all costs are measured in transfer fees and wages.

 

[wrd]

e a large number of signings, many of whom were highly rated, but I could tell there would be problems. Bringing in a lot of new players means it takes longer for each one to figure out the culture of the club. The culture risks being diluted or changed.

None of their signings were highly rated, not a single one of them would get into a top6 club and you could see it from a mile off that their signings showed a lack of thought into who would fit where. They signed 3 players who play the same role for 1 position.

Our itk has led me to believe theres a real specificity about our targets, much similar to Liverpool last season.

 

[wishkah]

because 3 is better than 2

nipples...

 

[LeParisien]

None of their signings were highly rated, not a single one of them would get into a top6 club and you could see it from a mile off that their signings showed a lack of thought into who would fit where. They signed 3 players who play the same role for 1 position.

Our itk has led me to believe theres a real specificity about our targets, much similar to Liverpool last season.

I don’t think that’s correct. Many of their players were highly rated and had played at a high level previously. Everton weren’t a top 6 club and on paper their signings improved them.

Sigurdsson - amazing for swansea
Pickford - phenomenal young keeper. Very good for Sunderland
Michael Keane - brilliant for Burnley
Sandro Ramirez - we were linked to him with many people on here supportive !
Davy Klaasen- just played Europa league final for Ajax

Not every signing was a banger but there was plenty of cause for optimism and Everton have definitely underperformed. I think I offered a coherent reason why.

Anyway - Everton is not the point. The point is that changing a lot of your first team players is rarely (if ever) a successful strategy, for the reasons I gave above.

 

[wrd]

I don’t think that’s correct. Many of their players were highly rated and had played at a high level previously. Everton weren’t a top 6 club and on paper their signings improved them.

Sigurdsson - amazing for swansea
Pickford - phenomenal young keeper. Very good for Sunderland
Michael Keane - brilliant for Burnley
Sandro Ramirez - we were linked to him with many people on here supportive !
Davy Klaasen- just played Europa league final for Ajax

Not every signing was a banger but there was plenty of cause for optimism and Everton have definitely underperformed. I think I offered a coherent reason why.

Anyway - Everton is not the point. The point is that changing a lot of your first team players is rarely (if ever) a successful strategy, for the reasons I gave above.

We will have to agree to disagree but I still think our ITK has been very specific on our targets

De Ligt - Alder replacement
Sessegnon (mostly in jan) - Rose/lwb replacement
Trix 2 cms and herc germany ITK - replacing Dembele
Martial/Bale itk - Filling our final attack spot

I don't see that as a huge overhaul personally as the core of the team remains.

 

[Yid-ol]

I don’t think that’s correct. Many of their players were highly rated and had played at a high level previously. Everton weren’t a top 6 club and on paper their signings improved them.

Sigurdsson - amazing for swansea
Pickford - phenomenal young keeper. Very good for Sunderland
Michael Keane - brilliant for Burnley
Sandro Ramirez - we were linked to him with many people on here supportive !
Davy Klaasen- just played Europa league final for Ajax

Not every signing was a banger but there was plenty of cause for optimism and Everton have definitely underperformed. I think I offered a coherent reason why.

Anyway - Everton is not the point. The point is that changing a lot of your first team players is rarely (if ever) a successful strategy, for the reasons I gave above.

But if the players you have, have taken you as far as they can ( not saying this about all our players) then a good few changes are needed and can be the difference between finishing where we are, or higher.

It's the managers and coaches job to get the team to work together and adapt to each others game.

 

[Univarn]

When did this become the Everton transfer review thread?

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

Here to echo my worries over the implications of the itk.

Last season Everton made a large number of signings, many of whom were highly rated, but I could tell there would be problems. Bringing in a lot of new players means it takes longer for each one to figure out the culture of the club. The culture risks being diluted or changed.

That might be a good thing if you want the culture to change quickly (bringing in lots of new faces is exactly what you would do) and you scouted thoroughly for personality. But the culture at spurs is very good so we have to be careful.

Everyone wants to upgrade the quality of playing staff in key positions but you have to manage the costs of that change - not all costs are measured in transfer fees and wages.

I think you vastly underestimate the strength of the core ethos.

When we sold Bale and brought in seven players - that team lacked a core identity - so it was difficult to assimilate, because nobody knew what to assimilate into. Now, Poch has stamped his identity all through-out the club - players, coaches, staff. The core of Kane, Eriksen, Dele, Jan, Lloris - even Winks, Rose, Trippier, Sanchez, Lamela, Son - all have the same mentality.

It is much easier for players to assimilate when the culture of the club is so strong.

 

[LeParisien]

We will have to agree to disagree but I still think our ITK has been very specific on our targets

De Ligt - Alder replacement
Sessegnon (mostly in jan) - Rose/lwb replacement
Trix 2 cms and herc germany ITK - replacing Dembele
Martial/Bale itk - Filling our final attack spot

I don't see that as a huge overhaul personally as the core of the team remains.

You’re right that the signings seem to have the requisite quality and skill set.

There is a hint that there might be 5 players destined for the starting 11 there. Throw in Lucas as well and that’s a third of a match day squad that will change.

I’m not against that necessarily because I know poch will tell them that you come to train and no one is guaranteed a start. Poch bloods new signings slowly too and he’ll make them earn their place. So I am sure the club are aware of the potential costs to club culture - it just never gets spoken about on here.

And we cannot have more than 5 new players imo.

 

[LeParisien]

When did this become the Everton transfer review thread?

It didn’t. If you read my reply above I said that the point was not Everton but the risjs associated with changing too many elements of the first team at once, even where those players seem to improve the quality.

 

[LeParisien]

I think you vastly underestimate the strength of the core ethos.

When we sold Bale and brought in seven players - that team lacked a core identity - so it was difficult to assimilate, because nobody knew what to assimilate into. Now, Poch has stamped his identity all through-out the club - players, coaches, staff. The core of Kane, Eriksen, Dele, Jan, Lloris - even Winks, Rose, Trippier, Sanchez, Lamela, Son - all have the same mentality.

It is much easier for players to assimilate when the culture of the club is so strong.

I agree with that as my response below shows.

However even very strong cultures need to be wary of significant upheaval. Basically, there is a limit.

You’re right that the signings seem to have the requisite quality and skill set.

There is a hint that there might be 5 players destined for the starting 11 there. Throw in Lucas as well and that’s a third of a match day squad that will change.

I’m not against that necessarily because I know poch will tell them that you come to train and no one is guaranteed a start. Poch bloods new signings slowly too and he’ll make them earn their place. So I am sure the club are aware of the potential costs to club culture - it just never gets spoken about on here.

And we cannot have more than 5 new players imo.

 

[mil1lion]

I think people need to calm down about players being sold. I think the likes of Wanyama are just available if a good offer comes in. Not that we're actively trying to sell. Just that we need to offload some players to bring in some players and Wanyama is one that we can sacrifice if it comes to it.

As for the Bale stuff I think it's just a matter of great if we get him but no big deal if not. What I mean is that we'll still get our other deals done in the meantime and they're independent from the Bale stuff. If Bale is signed in addition then it's a massive bonus. If not we still have Moura who I think will be great next season.