The Daily ITK Discussion Thread 22nd May 2016

[LexingtonSpurs]

I still don't see Wanyama coming though, he will want to play in every game and Dier/Dembele/Alli was a successful midfield 3 this season so Wanyama would spend lot of time on the bench

We are going to have 50+ games next season. Would not be surprised to see Wanyama get 20-25 starts, and 40 appearances.

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

I wont get excited until I hear that Koeman has sanctioned it?

I don't imagine that Koeman will be too worried about who comes/goes from Soton. He'll have his hands full keeping ahold of his players at Everton...

 

[$hoguN]

Is Wanyama really progression ? Evolution ?

He's just a different coloured version of Dier. This is like the defensive ying to the yang of Wenger every year since Petit and Viera departed constantly buying flouncy attacking midfielders instead of just adding what they actually need to compliment instead of fucking supplement what they already have.

We do not need another robust athlete trundling around making rudimentary noises. We need to evolve, we need to find a busy **** who can grasp the fairly simple concept of reading the game defensively who can also apply some forward directional quick wit too.

Did we really upgrade our whole scouting and analytics department just to go back to Southampton for a player who fulfils a remit we already have taken care of ?

I'm not overly blown away by the 30+ mil we spent on Son and Njie either. We'd have been better off just going and blowing all that on Embolo, Fekir or Lacazette. And Alderweireld's been great, but again, we hardly needed a room full of screens and servers watching and analysing the data from every game in the world to sign him. Just a Sky subscription. And according to Pleat he convinced Levy to sign Alli.

I think someone needs to go on to the roof of Levy towers and give the arial connected to Mitchell's black box a good kick.

Please name me a few of these elusive busy playmakers you are describing?

Pochettino's system requires the use of two midfielders capable of doing their defensive duties to a high standard, with one of them being capable of dropping back and sitting very deep to allow our very attacking fullbacks to press on and offer us width. Wanyama, whilst admittedly not being the most glamorous of signings will offer as an alternative to Dier, allowing the lad to rest once and while. He will also increase our likelihood of seeing out the last 20 mins of tough games.

If we can pull this off it will be an extremely shrewd signing. Also remember how important having two technically limited but tenacious players was last time we were in the CL

 

[tony0379]

I wont get excited until I hear that Koeman has sanctioned it?

He will sanction it whilst Everton unveil him.

 

[Drexl]

We are going to have 50+ games next season. Would not be surprised to see Wanyama get 20-25 starts, and 40 appearances.

He would be a great replacement for Mason, without turning this thread into A+C's pet hate, a debate on the merits of Mason, Wanyama would be a massive upgrade, but Dier is an established interntional DCM and Dembele is our most important player so i cant see where Wanyama would fit in, if he was willing to be a replacement for Mason on the bench and start the cup games, then great

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I think you're being unfair personally.

Why should all of our signings represent evolution? We had a midfield three last season who could dominate any team on their day. Why not add more of the same (or similar), so that we can play two DM types when it suits us, or so that we have more cover if someone is missing or knackered?

Personally, if we produced clones of Dier, Dembele and Alli this summer instead of signing any new players for central midfield, then I would consider it good business.

I think Wanyama would be a good start for us this transfer window, ticks some midfield boxes, and also could be considered to give the option of dropping Dier back to centre back if necessary, meaning we can get rid of donkey chops and not have to worry about signing a replacement.

Why should we evolve ? Surely evolving is better than spending money to stand still ? I think it highly unlikely ManU, Chelsea, ManC or even Liverpool will be as poor or inconsistent next year, if we stand still we may find ourselves slipping back down the food chain. I'm not talking revolution, lots of things are very right, but gentle evolution. One or two quality additions that move us forward, not give us repetition of functionary elements we already have.

You watch way too much Barcelona and Bayern. There are other ways of constructing a team, especially on a budget. And power is as important a facet as finesse in the Premier League. The ability to win 50-50s, and contest physically will always be a key part of winning matches in this league.

I have no idea where you get this idea that I believe we should be emulating Barca or Bayern when just about everything I write about our transfer strategy is the antithesis of that. I'd rather we bought nobody and promoted from within than by ordinary players like Wanyama.

If wanyama was gonna sign for Utd. We'd all be saying " why didn't we try sign him etc" no pleasing some fans. We clearly showed a total lack of fight and bottle and that sort of mentality those last few games of the season which has opened poch's eyes I think to certain players. So looks like he's gone out and addressed it nice and early in the window something we've also always complained about with someone he knows has all those characteristics and has Premier league experience seems like a no brainer to me

If Wanyama signed for ManU I'd be saying the same thing I did when they paid 28m for Fellani. Thank fuck they are wasting their money not ours.

It wasn't fight and bottle we lacked at any stage last season, it was intelligent in game management. Wanyama has no more of that than anyone we already have, which was demonstrated by Poch's Southampton losing as many points from winning positions with Wanyama as ours did without him this year.

 

[Larryjanta]

Given its going to be extremely tough to improve on Dier and Dembele as a first choice pair, Wanyama makes perfect sense. Also allows Dier to cover Toby's slot if he got injured without playing an unnatural DM. Perfect, logical signing with experience of the league and the coach as a low(relative) price. Lovely

 

[The Swellhead Spur]

Please name me a few of these elusive busy playmakers you are describing?

I can name one we've been linked to, Roberto Pereyra

 

[ross the saint]

Why should we evolve ? Surely evolving is better than spending money to stand still ?

I just don't agree that the most outstanding elements to of our first XI from last year need to evolve.

Neither do I agree that adding strength in depth when we have CL football coming up, and adding an extra tactical option in midfield, is standing still.

If we managed to sign another striker, similar in type and in quality to Harry Kane, would that count as standing still?

 

[Breezer]

Why should we evolve ? Surely evolving is better than spending money to stand still ? I think it highly unlikely ManU, Chelsea, ManC or even Liverpool will be as poor or inconsistent next year, if we stand still we may find ourselves slipping back down the food chain. I'm not talking revolution, lots of things are very right, but gentle evolution. One or two quality additions that move us forward, not give us repetition of functionary elements we already have.

So you don't see adding Wanyama as evolving? Surely adding him to our squad and possibly selling Mason, Carroll makes us stronger and therefore improving overall. Our current first 11 is good enough to match anyone in the league including the teams you mentioned even if they buy big. It's when we have injuries or suspensions that we struggle. Wanyama is exactly what we need to provide quality depth in our squad. Along with a couple of quality attacking options that will probably be our business for the summer.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

Why should we evolve ? Surely evolving is better than spending money to stand still ? I think it highly unlikely ManU, Chelsea, ManC or even Liverpool will be as poor or inconsistent next year, if we stand still we may find ourselves slipping back down the food chain. I'm not talking revolution, lots of things are very right, but gentle evolution. One or two quality additions that move us forward, not give us repetition of functionary elements we already have.

You're obviously not going to agree, but I think the signing of Wanyama would represent an evolution. Last season, if Dier or Dembele were suspended or had injury problems, most were shitting themselves because Mason and Carroll weren't playing great, and Bentaleb stopped existing. Signing Wanyama would be an evolution because it would mean that we could even rest someone like Dier without a significant drop in performance. Teams like City or Arsenal can get loads of injuries, but still have enough quality depth to win games comfortably. Obviously some players are irreplaceable, but it would be nice if we could rest players like Kane and Dier against weaker teams next season (e.g. after a CL game), but still have enough quality to win.

 

[ross the saint]

We will absolutely need to rotate the midfield 3 next season, no question.

As it stands, Mason, Bentaleb and Carroll don't allow us to do that against quality opposition. Wanyama is a player that would.

 

[danielneeds]

I have no idea where you get this idea that I believe we should be emulating Barca or Bayern when just about everything I write about our transfer strategy is the antithesis of that. I'd rather we bought nobody and promoted from within than by ordinary players like Wanyama.

It's because when we promote these players, and they're not accomplishing the multi-faceted midfield masterclasses that your footballing ethos requires, pretty soon you'll be calling them brainless automatons.

 

[diamond lights]

To be able to slot in a rejuvenated Bentaleb and Wanyama and rest Dier and Dembele in a mid week game is a big improvement on last season.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Please name me a few of these elusive busy playmakers you are describing?

Pochettino's system requires the use of two midfielders capable of doing their defensive duties to a high standard, with one of them being capable of dropping back and sitting very deep to allow our very attacking fullbacks to press on and offer us width. Wanyama, whilst admittedly not being the most glamorous of signings will offer as an alternative to Dier, allowing the lad to rest once and while. He will also increase our likelihood of seeing out the last 20 mins of tough games.

If we can pull this off it will be an extremely shrewd signing. Also remember how important having two technically limited but tenacious players was last time we were in the CL

They don't have to be playmakers, but there are players out there, who I and others have named in other threads (I won't do it in here because it will get classed as wish listing) who have good defensive qualities and a bit of football in them too.

 

[EQP]

Bentaleb will be more as a playmaking midfielder he definitely has the talent and footballing brain to be so

THIS! People forget that he was the defensive minded one when he was paired with Mason, forcing him to play reserved at times. With Wanyama as the DM and Nabil as the more attack/possession oriented CM, we'll have a more dynamic and balanced CM paring to Nabil/Mason.

 

[teok]

Wanyama isn't "ordinary" at all he is just limited. If you want a straight up defensive midfielder who is prem proven and poch knows and obviously wants he does exactly what it says on the tin.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I just don't agree that the most outstanding elements to of our first XI from last year need to evolve.

Neither do I agree that adding strength in depth when we have CL football coming up, and adding an extra tactical option in midfield, is standing still.

If we managed to sign another striker, similar in type and in quality to Harry Kane, would that count as standing still?

See my answer below. We don't have a single other striker here who could do the job Kane does. But I have repeatedly said I don't expect us to. Signing a player with his ready made all round skill set and attitude would be almost impossible. I have said that's one of the reasons I'd not be fussed if we didn't sign Batshuayi but would rather sign someone like Embolo who could develop into a "kane" role but in the meantime can also fulfil other remits in the attack.

So you don't see adding Wanyama as evolving? Surely adding him to our squad and possibly selling Mason, Carroll makes us stronger and therefore improving overall. Our current first 11 is good enough to match anyone in the league including the teams you mentioned even if they buy big. It's when we have injuries or suspensions that we struggle. Wanyama is exactly what we need to provide quality depth in our squad. Along with a couple of quality attacking options that will probably be our business for the summer.

I don't get why all of a sudden Mason, a player who helped us achieve a higher placed finish in the league than Wanyama did at Southampton, despite Wanyama having a superior coach, some excellent players players (including some we wanted to pay good money for) like Schniederlin, Rodriguez, Lallana, Lovren, Shaw, Clyne etc. and Mason playing next to a 20yo rookie an ever changing defence with the likes of Fazio and a a very green and in some cases lazy (Townsend/Chadli) front four, is now considered an inferior CM to Wanyama. Mason was playing really well before getting a serious injury, he then came back into a team that was already stuttering, carrying an injury after barely playing any meaningful consistent games.

Although I think Onomah would be better in a CM3, I think I'd even rather see him given more time in a CM2 than spend money on Wanyama to sit on our bench. Or Lesniak even, kids a right little busy **** and he can play a bit too.

We read glowing testimony from Schneiderlin about how Poch developed his game, we have very talented players here already who need that developing. I'd rather very good footballers like Mason or Onomah are taught how to defend a bit better because we are never going to teach Wanyama how to be a more intelligent footballer.

 

[Drexl]

See my answer below. We don't have a single other striker here who could do the job Kane does. But I have repeatedly said I don't expect us to. Signing a player with his ready made all round skill set and attitude would be almost impossible. I have said that's one of the reasons I'd not be fussed if we didn't sign Batshuayi but would rather sign someone like Embolo who could develop into a "kane" role but in the meantime can also fulfil other remits in the attack.



I don't get why all of a sudden Mason, a player who helped us achieve a higher placed finish in the league than Wanyama did at Southampton, despite Wanyama having a superior coach, some excellent players players (including some we wanted to pay good money for) like Schniederlin, Rodriguez, Lallana, Lovren, Shaw, Clyne etc. and Mason playing next to a 20yo rookie an ever changing defence with the likes of Fazio and a a very green and in some cases lazy (Townsend/Chadli) front four, is now considered an inferior CM to Wanyama. Mason was playing really well before getting a serious injury, he then came back into a team that was already stuttering, carrying an injury after barely playing any meaningful consistent games.

Although I think Onomah would be better in a CM3, I think I'd even rather see him given more time in a CM2 than spend money on Wanyama to sit on our bench. Or Lesniak even, kids a right little busy **** and he can play a bit too.

We read glowing testimony from Schneiderlin about how Poch developed his game, we have very talented players here already who need that developing. I'd rather very good footballers like Mason or Onomah are taught how to defend a bit better because we are never going to teach Wanyama how to be a more intelligent footballer.

Would Mason get in the City, Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool teams? the clear answer is no, he is Spurs through and through i love the guy, but he is a limited player, there is a reason why the team being linked with him is Bournemouth, he is not good enough for a team with title/CL aspirations, he is the modern day Michael Brown, sooner we get rid the better and bring in someone of quality in his position

Likes of Mason, Chadli, Carroll are not good enough for a team with our aspirations

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Would Mason get in the City, Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool teams? the clear answer is no, he is Spurs through and through i love the guy, but he is a limited player, there is a reason why the team being linked with him is Bournemouth, he is not good enough for a team with title/CL aspirations, he is the modern day Michael Brown, sooner we get rid the better and bring in someone of quality in his position

Likes of Mason, Chadli, Carroll are not good enough for a team with our aspirations

Would Wanyama get in any of those teams?