The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - 24th August 2015

[Mr Pink]

Have you seen the job requirements?! Cool job but I'd want half of his wages for all of that!

No lol..;.she just messaged me saying I believe he used to play for the team you support...and wants a brief summary on his footie career... offside rule ought to do it

Back on topic....

Berahino and another midfielder and I'll be more than happy.

 

[dagraham]

I pity the commentator who has to describe a 1-2 with Delle Ali.

Pleat

 

[jezz]

JJ has named the three that are going. That's ITK. Why talk of Lamela and Dembele going when ITK says they won't.

Because they don't like these players?
Just a wild guess

 

[Bill_Oddie]

NB: It has been agreed* that Asier Illarremendi is known as Jack. As in Bauer.


On JJ's ITK, definitely go along with the general wisdom that it means Berahino + Central Midfielder/Dier role, with the third option being if a pacey, direct right-sided forward becomes available in our price bracket, we'd go for him. On the basis of the first three games, he'd be likely of quite a bit of game time. We need to be able to set up, especially in later stages of games, with Kane creating space for two wide inverted wingers to attack like Bolasie and Zaha do at Palace. We have too many technical, tempo-setters/pick-the-lock (piss) artists. Poch wants some drive. Lamela should be providing it, but his confidence is destroyed.


*Yes, it can be "agreed" even if it's only me who has done so.

 

[Stoof]

NB: It has been agreed* that Asier Illarremendi is known as Jack. As in Bauer.


On JJ's ITK, definitely go along with the general wisdom that it means Berahino + Central Midfielder/Dier role, with the third option being if a pacey, direct right-sided forward becomes available in our price bracket, we'd go for him. On the basis of the first three games, he'd be likely of quite a bit of game time. We need to be able to set up, especially in later stages of games, with Kane creating space for two wide inverted wingers to attack like Bolasie and Zaha do at Palace. We have too many technical, tempo-setters/pick-the-lock (piss) artists. Poch wants some drive. Lamela should be providing it, but his confidence is destroyed.


*Yes, it can be "agreed" even if it's only me who has done so.

Pfft. Agreed. You can kiss my Asier.

What gives you the inkling that it's a right-sided pacey forward?

 

[lukadownthelane]

We must be the only premier league team who needs to make a profit on transfers despite all the money in the prem.

I'm not suggesting a splurge, but sure we could afford a net spend this year.

 

[allatsea]

Some crap in this thread again

 

[Bill_Oddie]

Pfft. Agreed. You can kiss my Asier.

What gives you the inkling that it's a right-sided pacey forward?

Because we need one. Our game management has been good - and in Eriksen, Alli, Mason, Carroll, Dembele, and to a lesser extent Chadli we have players to keep ball moving - but we haven't been able to suddenly shift from second gear right up to fourth or fifth. It's generally been painful, laboured, one gear at a time stuff, which is why immediately after half times (and drinks breaks - don't get me started) we've often hit long-ish balls for Kane. It's like Poch is telling them to do anything to put quicker pressure on the opposition backline. Poch clearly wants us to play quicker (or, more accurately, he wants us to be *able* to play quicker while generally holding the ball and switching play to stretch opponents, which we've done very well), but we can't do this effectively with the current personnel. One pacey, direct player on one side of Kane is good. Two is better.

I think at the start of the season, Poch thought he could do this with Townsend, Lamela and one more. We eventually got him N'Jie. But those three hardly hit the button marked "Proven Fit For Purpose", hence I think he'd like another.

 

[WestBelfast Spurs]

We must be the only premier league team who needs to make a profit on transfers despite all the money in the prem.

I'm not suggesting a splurge, but sure we could afford a net spend this year.

with the added TV money this year too ffs

 

[CockOnBall]

1) We've balanced the books every window for 6+ years now, despite 95% of ITKs promising the fabled 'war chest'

2) Yesterday JJ said this:

Evs79 ‏@ChrisEvs79
Need Fazio, Lennon and Townsend sales cash to buy what we need otherwise the books won't balance and we can't have that

The original JJetset ‏@jetsetyid
@ChrisEvs79 correct but you forgot Ade & I doubt AT will go

I've not done the math but how much are Fazio, Lennon and Ade likely to bring in? 10m?

Granted we will save some money on wages but not a lot considering we would need to pay that back out. How much do we have net of spend so far?

 

[Insomnia]

Well I like @Bill_Oddie & I like @Stoof , but which one is the best?
There's only 1 way to find out, FIGHT.....

 

[CockOnBall]

To further substantiate JJ's comment that Fazio is likely to leave, sky reporting that WBA are looking at way to revive the deal.

 

[mpickard2087]

Because we need one. Our game management has been good - and in Eriksen, Alli, Mason, Carroll, Dembele, and to a lesser extent Chadli we have players to keep ball moving - but we haven't been able to suddenly shift from second gear right up to fourth or fifth. It's generally been painful, laboured, one gear at a time stuff, which is why immediately after half times (and drinks breaks - don't get me started) we've often hit long-ish balls for Kane. It's like Poch is telling them to do anything to put quicker pressure on the opposition backline. Poch clearly wants us to play quicker (or, more accurately, he wants us to be *able* to play quicker while generally holding the ball and switching play to stretch opponents, which we've done very well), but we can't do this effectively with the current personnel. One pacey, direct player on one side of Kane is good. Two is better.

I think at the start of the season, Poch thought he could do this with Townsend, Lamela and one more. We eventually got him N'Jie. But those three hardly hit the button marked "Proven Fit For Purpose", hence I think he'd like another.

You don't just go through the gears by having pacier players though. Often it comes about by upping the tempo of the passing, short sharp interchanges etc. We are competent at 'keep ball' and holding onto possession, but very rarely identify moments to show some urgency, go through the gears, pass and move and really go at the opposition. So then, do we need more creative players? The buying (and selling) will never end...

I'd also say he's had options for the counter attack on the bench, against Stoke particularly, in Rose and Trippier. Yes I'm not saying for one second these are ideal, but if he wants pace in the team, particularly late in games, then go to players with at least some of the skillset rather than very like for like swaps. Often all you need to counter towards the end of game is people who can run into the open spaces. He's just unimaginative as a tactician.

I think the main problem is that Poch is struggling with a team that finds itself up against teams who put up the brick wall every single week, partly because we are a bigger club and also because in recent years it's been shown to be successful tactic against us. These kill his key components, such as 'fast transitions' and being able to play forward quickly. At Southampton games would have been more open, so they could play early passes through the lines into Lambert. Release Lallana into space, send Rodriguez through on goal etc. For us now with the situations we face you either go 'back to basics' and play wider and commit more men to the box, or there has to be much greater intricacy and tactical understanding of pass and move and where and when we try to open teams up. It's not just going to be down to getting fast individuals such as Berahino + a Usain Bolt clone.

 

[Oshi]

To substantiate JJ's comment that Fazio is likely to leave, sky reporting that WBA are looking at way to revive the deal.

I would view @JJetset as the substantiate, not the other way around

 

[RobjDerby]

 

[Nigel Spinal]

I've not done the math but how much are Fazio, Lennon and Ade likely to bring in? 10m?

Granted we will save some money on wages but not a lot considering we would need to pay that back out. How much do we have net of spend so far?

£17.5m net profit so far. £10m for Faz and AL leaves us change after Berahino for a CM, but not that much.

It's why I can only see JJ's 'the third man' being a loan or free.

 

[WestBelfast Spurs]

£17.5m net profit so far. £10m for Faz and AL leaves us change after Berahino for a CM, but not that much.

It's why I can only see JJ's 'the third man' being a loan or free.

Joey Barton im telling ya right up Levy's street

 

[CockOnBall]

£17.5m net profit so far. £10m for Faz and AL leaves us change after Berahino for a CM, but not that much.

It's why I can only see JJ's 'the third man' being a loan or free.

Sadly it appears Illaramendi is on his way back to Sociedad, Linked with us on a loan. Spanish press saying he's going back home.

 

[Bill_Oddie]

You don't just go through the gears by having pacier players though. Often it comes about by upping the tempo of the passing, short sharp interchanges etc. We are competent at 'keep ball' and holding onto possession, but very rarely identify moments to show some urgency, go through the gears, pass and move and really go at the opposition. So then, do we need more creative players? The buying (and selling) will never end...

I'd also say he's had options for the counter attack on the bench, against Stoke particularly, in Rose and Trippier. Yes I'm not saying for one second these are ideal, but if he wants pace in the team, particularly late in games, then go to players with at least some of the skillset rather than very like for like swaps. Often all you need to counter towards the end of game is people who can run into the open spaces. He's just unimaginative as a tactician.

I think the main problem is that Poch is struggling with a team that finds itself up against teams who put up the brick wall every single week, partly because we are a bigger club and also because in recent years it's been shown to be successful tactic against us. These kill his key components, such as 'fast transitions' and being able to play forward quickly. At Southampton games would have been more open, so they could play early passes through the lines into Lambert. Release Lallana into space, send Rodriguez through on goal etc. For us now with the situations we face you either go 'back to basics' and play wider and commit more men to the box, or there has to be much greater intricacy and tactical understanding of pass and move and where and when we try to open teams up. It's not just going to be down to getting fast individuals such as Berahino + a Usain Bolt clone.

But we have quite a few players who can change tempo through passing - and Pritchard makes another when he comes into the side. Presently you could argue we have zero who change tempo with runs, either with or without the ball (N'Jie isn't ready, Townsend is unfit, Lennon is not in the squad, Lamela is, well, Lamela). Alli perhaps is the only player who looks to drive forward directly at the moment. Chadli does it from time to time, which is why he scores more goals than his displays otherwise probably merit.

We just need a mix. And from the evidence of the first three games, I think Poch - even if he is, as you somewhat harshly describe him as, an unimaginative tactician - will want another option with high pace.

But the reason it's only a "possible" is if we can't get a great deal, we should still be fine without one - N'Jie, Alli, Townsend, Berahino and even Onomah can play that role. Whereas ignoring the need for a back-up centre forward and first choice central midfielder would be much more negligent.

 

[CockOnBall]

£17.5m net profit so far. £10m for Faz and AL leaves us change after Berahino for a CM, but not that much.

It's why I can only see JJ's 'the third man' being a loan or free.

Have you added the brook house sale in that? Apparently the 10m or so is set for the transfer fund.