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The Daily ITK Discussion Thread 28th May

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Indisguise

Well-Known Member
Jun 9, 2012
7,996
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I have some news on Toby from someone very close to the club with some details on the contract stand off and why we find ourselves in this situation:

He initially agreed a new contract around October time that would put him on around £120,000 a week. Levy was happy to pay him this as its around the wage ceiling that is currently in place and set to be broken this summer. However his father then got involved in negotiations and despite Toby ‘agreeing’ on the initial terms proposed by Levy, his father then persuaded him to go back and ask for north of £200,000 per week. Understandably Levy said no (for a number of reasons including that the current wage ceiling would be smashed earlier than was planned, this summer, and therefore would involve a number of other first team players immediately demanding those figures) and sent him on his way. Levy was particularly pissed off that after agreeing terms he turned round and asked for more. Other discussions have taken place but because of the sour taste left in Levy’s mouth they have been to no avail. Ironically it looks as though 2/3 players will be around that figure come the end of the summer.
So far he's done himself out of 30 to 35 weeks increase in pay and no sign of a pay rise on the horizon for a while yet. Isn't he supposed to be on £50,000 a week? If so, that's over £2 million. Daddy should have put a sock in it.
 
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slartibartfast

Grunge baby forever
Oct 21, 2012
18,320
33,955
I have some news on Toby from someone very close to the club with some details on the contract stand off and why we find ourselves in this situation:

He initially agreed a new contract around October time that would put him on around £120,000 a week. Levy was happy to pay him this as its around the wage ceiling that is currently in place and set to be broken this summer. However his father then got involved in negotiations and despite Toby ‘agreeing’ on the initial terms proposed by Levy, his father then persuaded him to go back and ask for north of £200,000 per week. Understandably Levy said no (for a number of reasons including that the current wage ceiling would be smashed earlier than was planned, this summer, and therefore would involve a number of other first team players immediately demanding those figures) and sent him on his way. Levy was particularly pissed off that after agreeing terms he turned round and asked for more. Other discussions have taken place but because of the sour taste left in Levy’s mouth they have been to no avail. Ironically it looks as though 2/3 players will be around that figure come the end of the summer.
What is it with our players who've been injured for long periods and contributing very little being the first ones knocking on the door asking for a fkin ridiculous wage increase?
Walker, Rose and now Toby. Must be contagious.
 

robertgoulet

SC Resident Crooner Extraordinaire
Jul 23, 2013
3,610
12,552
I have some news on Toby from someone very close to the club with some details on the contract stand off and why we find ourselves in this situation:

He initially agreed a new contract around October time that would put him on around £120,000 a week. Levy was happy to pay him this as its around the wage ceiling that is currently in place and set to be broken this summer. However his father then got involved in negotiations and despite Toby ‘agreeing’ on the initial terms proposed by Levy, his father then persuaded him to go back and ask for north of £200,000 per week. Understandably Levy said no (for a number of reasons including that the current wage ceiling would be smashed earlier than was planned, this summer, and therefore would involve a number of other first team players immediately demanding those figures) and sent him on his way. Levy was particularly pissed off that after agreeing terms he turned round and asked for more. Other discussions have taken place but because of the sour taste left in Levy’s mouth they have been to no avail. Ironically it looks as though 2/3 players will be around that figure come the end of the summer.

Might want to run that by the big bosses before you get hit with the whoopin stick!
 

Streetspur77

Happy Clapper
Jul 20, 2017
2,792
9,404
I have some news on Toby from someone very close to the club with some details on the contract stand off and why we find ourselves in this situation:

He initially agreed a new contract around October time that would put him on around £120,000 a week. Levy was happy to pay him this as its around the wage ceiling that is currently in place and set to be broken this summer. However his father then got involved in negotiations and despite Toby ‘agreeing’ on the initial terms proposed by Levy, his father then persuaded him to go back and ask for north of £200,000 per week. Understandably Levy said no (for a number of reasons including that the current wage ceiling would be smashed earlier than was planned, this summer, and therefore would involve a number of other first team players immediately demanding those figures) and sent him on his way. Levy was particularly pissed off that after agreeing terms he turned round and asked for more. Other discussions have taken place but because of the sour taste left in Levy’s mouth they have been to no avail. Ironically it looks as though 2/3 players will be around that figure come the end of the summer.

The cheek of levy to get annoyed when someone moves the goalposts lol
 

lazypoodle

Well-Known Member
Aug 19, 2017
58
470
What is it with our players who've been injured for long periods and contributing very little being the first ones knocking on the door asking for a fkin ridiculous wage increase?
Walker, Rose and now Toby. Must be contagious.

I've heard some suggest that because we offer the most generous incentives in the Premier League, when players aren't getting playing time and their take home earnings significantly drop, it reminds them of what they could be earning elsewhere without the incentives complicating their wages. This in turn leads to discontent over their situation, particularly from an older player who may only have one or two contracts left in their career.
 

doctor stefan Freud

the tired tread of sad biology
Sep 2, 2013
15,170
72,169
I have some news on Toby from someone very close to the club with some details on the contract stand off and why we find ourselves in this situation:

He initially agreed a new contract around October time that would put him on around £120,000 a week. Levy was happy to pay him this as its around the wage ceiling that is currently in place and set to be broken this summer. However his father then got involved in negotiations and despite Toby ‘agreeing’ on the initial terms proposed by Levy, his father then persuaded him to go back and ask for north of £200,000 per week. Understandably Levy said no (for a number of reasons including that the current wage ceiling would be smashed earlier than was planned, this summer, and therefore would involve a number of other first team players immediately demanding those figures) and sent him on his way. Levy was particularly pissed off that after agreeing terms he turned round and asked for more. Other discussions have taken place but because of the sour taste left in Levy’s mouth they have been to no avail. Ironically it looks as though 2/3 players will be around that figure come the end of the summer.
One of the immutable laws of the universe that all monotheistic religions agree upon is that you do not slap the bald leader’s monkey
 

arunspurs

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
8,807
35,543
I standby Poch & Levy decision making in general on the 'project' in last 4 years. But sometimes, these decisions which is based on their ideology is proving detriment to progress of the club: Poch not selecting Toby in cup semis & Levy showing hypocrisy when someone other than him is moving the goal post.

We have arguably the best CB in the league and we are going to lose him because our club cant come to terms with current market situation. Instead of going from strength to strength, we are again rebuilding. This is not sustainable because players will figure it out that, to get out to richer club, all they need to do is to throw the toys out of the pram.
 

tiger666

Large Member
Jan 4, 2005
27,978
82,214
I standby Poch & Levy decision making in general on the 'project' in last 4 years. But sometimes, these decisions which is based on their ideology is proving detriment to progress of the club. Poch in terms of not selecting Toby in cup semis because of this issue & Levy showing hypocrisy when someone other than him is moving the goal post.

We have arguably the best CB in the league and we are going to lose him because our club cant come to terms with current market situation. Instead of going from strength to strength, we are again rebuilding. This is not sustainable because players will figure it out that, to get out to richer club, all they need to do is to throw the toys out of the pram.

No player should agree a deal then come back and ask for 80k a week more. Fuck them, we won't and shouldn't bend over for them.
 

arunspurs

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
8,807
35,543
No player should agree a deal then come back and ask for 80k a week more. Fuck them, we won't and shouldn't bend over for them.

I have no problem with this moral stand. I have been supporting it since the AVB & Sherwoood season.

But lets be honest : If we take this line, we have to prepare ourselves for the longhaul of waiting years to win the PL. At the very minimum, we cannot sell these players to PL club. But if we do sell Toby like Walker to a PL club, gap to the likes of City will only grow ;we will really be the next Arsenal interms of fighting just for 4th and going no further.
 

Tottenhamboys

Well-Known Member
May 16, 2018
85
6,408
I standby Poch & Levy decision making in general on the 'project' in last 4 years. But sometimes, these decisions which is based on their ideology is proving detriment to progress of the club: Poch not selecting Toby in cup semis & Levy showing hypocrisy when someone other than him is moving the goal post.

We have arguably the best CB in the league and we are going to lose him because our club cant come to terms with current market situation. Instead of going from strength to strength, we are again rebuilding. This is not sustainable because players will figure it out that, to get out to richer club, all they need to do is to throw the toys out of the pram.
Disagree. Nobody is bigger than the club.
 

arunspurs

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
8,807
35,543
Disagree. Nobody is bigger than the club.

Ofcourse I didnt say that...

My line is simple : Its a true and good moral line to take. But if you stand by it, then you need to take it on the chin when other club overtakes our growth. Fergie swallowed his pride with Rooney contract extension. It was not the correct thing to do, but he did it anyway because he didnt want to lose the edge in PL
 

rossdapep

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2011
21,905
78,640
I standby Poch & Levy decision making in general on the 'project' in last 4 years. But sometimes, these decisions which is based on their ideology is proving detriment to progress of the club: Poch not selecting Toby in cup semis & Levy showing hypocrisy when someone other than him is moving the goal post.

We have arguably the best CB in the league and we are going to lose him because our club cant come to terms with current market situation. Instead of going from strength to strength, we are again rebuilding. This is not sustainable because players will figure it out that, to get out to richer club, all they need to do is to throw the toys out of the pram.
Simultaneously, players will understand that they can be easily cast aside should they become incredibly selfish and they will be unable to hold the club at ransom, especially as it's likely they will have long contracts running.
 

robertgoulet

SC Resident Crooner Extraordinaire
Jul 23, 2013
3,610
12,552
Ofcourse I didnt say that...

My line is simple : Its a true and good moral line to take. But if you stand by it, then you need to take it on the chin when other club overtakes our growth. Fergie swallowed his pride with Rooney contract extension. It was not the correct thing to do, but he did it anyway because he didnt want to lose the edge in PL

There's obviously a line that has to be drawn, and a certain type of player for which that line can be stepped over. Toby isn't that player. Harry is. Ronaldo is. Messi is.
 

Tottenhamboys

Well-Known Member
May 16, 2018
85
6,408
Ofcourse I didnt say that...

My line is simple : Its a true and good moral line to take. But if you stand by it, then you need to take it on the chin when other club overtakes our growth. Fergie swallowed his pride with Rooney contract extension. It was not the correct thing to do, but he did it anyway because he didnt want to lose the edge in PL

Disagree. If we replace Toby with a player like De Ligt who is already top class and about 10 years younger, then we are certainly not going to be surpassed. If anything it gives us the chance to grow further.
 

longtimespur

Well-Known Member
Sep 10, 2014
5,830
9,949
I have no problem with this moral stand. I have been supporting it since the AVB & Sherwoood season.

But lets be honest : If we take this line, we have to prepare ourselves for the longhaul of waiting years to win the PL. At the very minimum, we cannot sell these players to PL club. But if we do sell Toby like Walker to a PL club, gap to the likes of City will only grow ;we will really be the next Arsenal interms of fighting just for 4th and going no further.

I can understand where you're coming from but.... with Poch seemingly wanting players to be friendly and gentlemanly, how would you rate a player that agrees a deal then comes back and tries to change.
Yes I know Daniel has probably done this but that's not the point. Toby apparently agreed a deal @ £120,000 then came back and asked for an extra £80,000.
Sorry I wouldn't take kindly to that if I were a player and would be knocking on Daniels door very loudly.
Would set a precedent we couldn't sustain.
 

bc205

Well-Known Member
May 10, 2005
3,577
6,274
I standby Poch & Levy decision making in general on the 'project' in last 4 years. But sometimes, these decisions which is based on their ideology is proving detriment to progress of the club: Poch not selecting Toby in cup semis & Levy showing hypocrisy when someone other than him is moving the goal post.

We have arguably the best CB in the league and we are going to lose him because our club cant come to terms with current market situation. Instead of going from strength to strength, we are again rebuilding. This is not sustainable because players will figure it out that, to get out to richer club, all they need to do is to throw the toys out of the pram.

I don't understand how anyone can be critical of the club's stance on this. As the ITK has stated, Toby agreed a 140% pay rise with the club, and then at the last minute came back and asked for a raise of 75% on that. Do you think any club owner/chairman would agree to that? Especially one trying to balance the books while funding a new stadium.

Also, you need to remember that the club also has to negotiate new contracts with pretty much every key member of the team this summer. All of their agents will have been watching the negotiations with Toby. What message would it have sent to them if we had caved in to his demands? You would see every one of those agents asking for more money for their clients, because they have seen the club already cave in once. An extra 80k a week for Toby would have translated to an extra 100s of thousands a week in additional wages for the club. It would have been financial suicide and Levy was quite right to tell them to go and swivel.
 

Krafty

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2004
4,768
2,099
Well, Toby has been badly advised there it seems, but he is a grown adult so he has to take responsibility.

Fair play to Levy, he doesn’t take any nonsense.
 

Tottenhamboys

Well-Known Member
May 16, 2018
85
6,408
I can understand where you're coming from but.... with Poch seemingly wanting players to be friendly and gentlemanly, how would you rate a player that agrees a deal then comes back and tries to change.
Yes I know Daniel has probably done this but that's not the point. Toby apparently agreed a deal @ £120,000 then came back and asked for an extra £80,000.
Sorry I wouldn't take kindly to that if I were a player and would be knocking on Daniels door very loudly.
Would set a precedent we couldn't sustain.
Not only did it sour Levy’s mouth but he knew if he gave in, then he’d have the likes of Alli and Eriksen saying hold on I want 200k a week then. Not worth the risk. Would cause unprecedented instability. The club needs to and will grow sustainably. We are very much on the up.
 
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