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The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - 31st May 2014

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SpurSince57

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2006
45,213
8,229
With good reason.
Fact of the matter is he has history as a troublemaker, do we let that continue or do we chance that he feels "ok" next season.

We don't really know that, do we? We've had one story that it was an argument over a beanie and a mobile, which is ridiculously trivial enough to be true, and another that Ade told the Bearded Wonder his tactics wouldn't work, which is also believable and also happened to be on the money. One can equally well argue that AVB acted like a dick.

Yes, he has a history of going off on one, right back to when he left Monaco (which is a good reason why he's not too likely to go back there). Again—and this really can't be stressed too much—that's the reason he's with us and not a CL club. Every window since 2009 we've had people banging on about how appalling it is we can't sign a top-class striker, apparently oblivious to the fact that we can't offer CL on a regular basis, or the insane wages City offer to compensate. We've done better out of him than some of his clubs, and he's contributed far more as a team player than Berbatov ever did.

And what's the alternative? Soldado, who seems to need his chances served up on a silver salver? Remy, whose form has been erratic all through his career and really isn't in the same class? Lukaku? Yes, of course Chelsea will flog him to us. Bony? Arsenal are already in, apparently, and I'd like a little insurance anyway. Kane? I really rate him, but I don't see him turning into a 15-20 goal a season striker just yet.

So, yes, I think it would be a good idea for Pochettino to humour Ade, because he really hasn't earned the right to be a 'My Way Or The Highway' boss in the Ferguson or van Gaal style.
 

zzz

Active Member
Aug 21, 2013
197
294
Harsh on Bony there BC, he just had a 26 goal season, tidy finisher, more than just a battering ram.

I think sometimes these players can be slightly deceptive as teams will put absolutely everything through them, so their statistics get buffered. When they come into a team that plays as a team and are expected to function more than "wait for service in box", they can be slightly disappointing.
 

gazzeh

Well-Known Member
Jan 31, 2011
2,143
5,085
He is by and large a hybrid finisher style striker, has more in common with Soldado than Benteke IMO, just happens to be good in the air too and a bit beefy.


I know you love carpet football BC but we need a Mickey Quinn :oops:
Bony also has crazy good feet. Watch the elastico on chiriches...
 

Gbspurs

Gatekeeper for debates, King of the plonkers
Jan 27, 2011
26,945
61,824
I think sometimes these players can be slightly deceptive as teams will put absolutely everything through them, so their statistics get buffered. When they come into a team that plays as a team and are expected to function more than "wait for service in box", they can be slightly disappointing.

Darren bent is a good example of this.
 

sandros kung fu kick

Well-Known Member
Jul 1, 2013
733
1,269
Thought he was on here before last summer ? If not, think his info was being copied across from other sites. But we're agreed that about a year ago the mods couldn't verify hios sources and his info not allowed as ITK.

I also post on the other site looklikemodric uses, his info was good and he did seem legit. As a poster I respect his opinion (as I do with everybody) but he did have to move away from the area, not sure why, but maybe that's why his info dried up.

Who knows though!
 

only1waddle

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2012
8,150
12,294
We don't really know that, do we? We've had one story that it was an argument over a beanie and a mobile, which is ridiculously trivial enough to be true, and another that Ade told the Bearded Wonder his tactics wouldn't work, which is also believable and also happened to be on the money. One can equally well argue that AVB acted like a dick.

Yes, he has a history of going off on one, right back to when he left Monaco (which is a good reason why he's not too likely to go back there). Again—and this really can't be stressed too much—that's the reason he's with us and not a CL club. Every window since 2009 we've had people banging on about how appalling it is we can't sign a top-class striker, apparently oblivious to the fact that we can't offer CL on a regular basis, or the insane wages City offer to compensate. We've done better out of him than some of his clubs, and he's contributed far more as a team player than Berbatov ever did.

And what's the alternative? Soldado, who seems to need his chances served up on a silver salver? Remy, whose form has been erratic all through his career and really isn't in the same class? Lukaku? Yes, of course Chelsea will flog him to us. Bony? Arsenal are already in, apparently, and I'd like a little insurance anyway. Kane? I really rate him, but I don't see him turning into a 15-20 goal a season striker just yet.

So, yes, I think it would be a good idea for Pochettino to humour Ade, because he really hasn't earned the right to be a 'My Way Or The Highway' boss in the Ferguson or van Gaal style.


Which is why i have said further back in this thread it is quite an impossible decision with Ade, i am also well aware that we can't get a better striker than him, i have maintained all along he is an enigma and simply unplayable on his day.

Out of interest though, if Ade had had his beef with Billy Nich would your opinion still be the same?
 

only1waddle

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2012
8,150
12,294
I think sometimes these players can be slightly deceptive as teams will put absolutely everything through them, so their statistics get buffered. When they come into a team that plays as a team and are expected to function more than "wait for service in box", they can be slightly disappointing.


Although he would be amongst 3 or so forwards of decent ability in a better team, offering a different option as opposed to being the main man, admittedly his season took off because Michu was injured for such a long period.
 

zzz

Active Member
Aug 21, 2013
197
294
Disciplinarian's don't have rules that can be bent dependent on who you are. They have an ethos that they get to run through their team, if they don't enforce it, it breaks the atmosphere in which they mold success. It is counter productive to their coaching methods.

It is for these reasons that when Balance is talked of by Grey Fox, i hope that as well as a balanced squad of ability in all positions, it also applies to balanced mentality.

Everyone singing off the same hymn sheet and pushing in the same direction. From articles and videos that have been released on poch and his team building excercises. I believe this will be high on his priority list. To balance the squad through unity of purpose.
 
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HappySpur

You Can't Unfry Things Jerri
Jan 7, 2012
7,666
19,601
Is there ITK on Bony? I looked about on SO and in the RO and I can't see anything. I'm confused.
 

Spursidol

Well-Known Member
Sep 15, 2007
12,636
15,834
Which is why i have said further back in this thread it is quite an impossible decision with Ade, i am also well aware that we can't get a better striker than him, i have maintained all along he is an enigma and simply unplayable on his day.

Out of interest though, if Ade had had his beef with Billy Nich would your opinion still be the same?

I don't think Billy Nick would have allowed the situation to get out of control (and ditto Alex Ferguson) - and that's the difference. AVB was not mature enough to deal with it, whereas Billy Nick knew how to deal with them
 

SpurSince57

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2006
45,213
8,229
Which is why i have said further back in this thread it is quite an impossible decision with Ade, i am also well aware that we can't get a better striker than him, i have maintained all along he is an enigma and simply unplayable on his day.

Out of interest though, if Ade had had his beef with Billy Nich would your opinion still be the same?

Different era. You might as well ask how Sandro's tweets and Bruce Lee tributes would have gone down. But as SpursIdol says, Nicholson wouldn't have been so insecure.
 

Spursidol

Well-Known Member
Sep 15, 2007
12,636
15,834
Disciplinarian's don't have rules that can be bent dependent on who you are. They have an ethos that they get to run through their team, if they don't enforce it, it breaks the atmosphere in which they mold success. It is counter productive to their coaching methods.

It is for these reasons that when Balance is talked of by Grey Fox, i hope that as well as a balanced squad of ability in all positions, it also applies to balanced mentality.

Everyone singing off the same hymn sheet and pushing in the same direction. From articles and videos that have been released on poch and his team building excercises. I believe this will be high on his priority list. To balance the squad through unity of purpose.


All good managers learn how to be pragmatic. So Poch will make his decision if/when he gets in suitable alternative strikers, not before.
 

only1waddle

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2012
8,150
12,294
I don't think Billy Nick would have allowed the situation to get out of control (and ditto Alex Ferguson) - and that's the difference. AVB was not mature enough to deal with it, whereas Billy Nick knew how to deal with them


For the record i am not defending AvB to the hilt on this one, i can see he had issues with authority himself what with the Anelka thing at Chelsea.
I agree that Bill Nich would have dealt with it, my point was that people wouldn't have thought anything of backing him over Ade had it been discussed on a forum.
 

SpurSince57

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2006
45,213
8,229
Disciplinarian's don't have rules that can be bent dependent on who you are. They have an ethos that they get to run through their team, if they don't enforce it, it breaks the atmosphere in which they mold success. It is counter productive to their coaching methods.

It is for these reasons that when Balance is talked of by Grey Fox, i hope that as well as a balanced squad of ability in all positions, it also applies to balanced mentality.

Everyone singing off the same hymn sheet and pushing in the same direction. From articles and videos that have been released on poch and his team building excercises. I believe this will be high on his priority list. To balance the squad through unity of purpose.

I just love inflexibility.
 

Twizzle

The Alpha Male
May 25, 2008
4,955
4,735
I would have thought it was obvious at the start of the TW that we had to sell before we could buy, our squad is busting at the seems and we got players out on loan every where, we gotta make room some how.

Therein lies the problem.

Imagine wanting to buy a player from Levy with the valuations and add ons that he would want. So many times we have been unable to move players on because we wanted too much money for them. Look at Gomes, now he is a free man we got noting for him yet other clubs have been after him in the last few seasons.
 

SpurSince57

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2006
45,213
8,229
For the record i am not defending AvB to the hilt on this one, i can see he had issues with authority himself what with the Anelka thing at Chelsea.
I agree that Bill Nich would have dealt with it, my point was that people wouldn't have thought anything of backing him over Ade had it been discussed on a forum.

Would a forum have backed his constant selection of Johnny Pratt?

This board would have wanted him out by Easter 1958.
 

zzz

Active Member
Aug 21, 2013
197
294
All good managers learn how to be pragmatic. So Poch will make his decision if/when he gets in suitable alternative strikers, not before.


If we discount the possibility that the club have not already decided the fate of Ade, i truly believe that Poch will make his mind up having had his first conversation with Ade, if he has not already.

I think the respect aspect is too ingrained into his football being to compromise who he is, for any player. People who are wired like that don't change. It's a basic tenant of their mentality.

It would not be pragmatic to his methodology of team work to place individuals on pedestals. It fundamentally breaks the team cohesion that is needed to get everyone fighting for each other and leaving everything on the pitch.

Though Ade may play ball and we get the best of both worlds.
 
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