The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - 7th and 8th June 2014

[DaSpurs]

Can see why you'd say that and I would have thought keeping Vert would be a priority but based on his attitude and performances last season I can understand being open to selling if we get offered top many. I'm not suggesting he will definitely be sold but just telling you what I was told.

This is totally opinion:
If we need to generate cash to spend then who out of our current squad would generate most? After all, this has been ENIC's model at Spurs. So if we could sell Vert for £20m and buy Lovren for £15m what do you think levy would do?

With regards to Daws it may have more to do with his importance off the field as well as in the dressing room. We got rid of a lot if players who understood the PL last summer (Parker, Caulker, Hudd). These players also knew the club. Again this part is opinion as I don't honestly know why the club would rather keep him than sell.

Completely agree with you. In fact, your second paragraph (while not intending for you to comment on this example) is precisely my logic for why we would possibly sell Paulinho, not because I think he's a crap player as I've been accusing of believing while trying to point this out. If two sizable offers came in, one each for Paulinho and Vertonghen, given what we currently have and what we could acquire in terms of replacements with reasonable fees for each, I would still prefer Paulinho as the one selected if a "fund-generator" were to be used this summer.

I also agree on the bit about Daws. Somewhat similar to such a situation of Verts going over Daws, people were left baffled a couple weeks ago because Friedel was handed another contract, and in their "bewilderment" they didn't stop once to consider the why. These decisions are not as simple as an even-keel, "who's better?" There are an incredible amount of underlying factors, some more important than others that people have to take into account beyond how each player is simply performing on the pitch.

Cheers Yid1987, your input has been straight gold today.

 

[Dazza86]

Can see why you'd say that and I would have thought keeping Vert would be a priority but based on his attitude and performances last season I can understand being open to selling if we get offered top many. I'm not suggesting he will definitely be sold but just telling you what I was told.

This is totally opinion:
If we need to generate cash to spend then who out of our current squad would generate most? After all, this has been ENIC's model at Spurs. So if we could sell Vert for £20m and buy Lovren for £15m what do you think levy would do?

With regards to Daws it may have more to do with his importance off the field as well as in the dressing room. We got rid of a lot if players who understood the PL last summer (Parker, Caulker, Hudd). These players also knew the club. Again this part is opinion as I don't honestly know why the club would rather keep him than sell.

I think he'd look at David Luiz being sold for £50m and think to himself "why the shit am I selling Vertonghen for £20m?"

 

[SpurSince57]

See, going by this reasoning, we are just saying to any player who has a good season for us, stop trying, mooch about a bit and you'll get your move... It create a dangerous precedent.

Which suggests there may be quite a bit more to it, if 1987's info is correct. Let's face it, to say we've only a hazy idea of what happens behind the scenes is gilding the lily somewhat.

 

[Dirty Ewok]

I think he'd look at David Luiz being sold for £50m and think to himself "why the shit am I selling Vertonghen for £20m?"

Already seeing the aftermath of that move...Didn't the Roma DoF basically say that because Luiz went for £50m that he would listen to offers for Benatia starting at £60m?

I would imagine Levy would take a similar stance especially if Jan performs at the WC.

 

[Yid1987]

Completely agree with you. In fact, your second paragraph (while not intending for you to comment on this example) is precisely my logic for why we would possibly sell Paulinho, not because I think he's a crap player as I've been accusing of believing while trying to point this out. If two sizable offers came in, one each for Paulinho and Vertonghen, given what we currently have and what we could acquire in terms of replacements with reasonable fees for each, I would still prefer Paulinho as the one selected if a "fund-generator" were to be used this summer.

I also agree on the bit about Daws. Somewhat similar to such a situation of Verts going over Daws, eople were left baffled a couple weeks ago because Friedel was handed another contract, and in their "bewilderment" they didn't stop once to consider the why. These decisions are not as simple as an even-keel, "who's better?" There are an incredible amount of underlying factors, some more important than others that people have to take into account beyond how each player is simply performing on the pitch.

Cheers Yid1987, your input has been straight gold today.

No problem. I get a snippet of info. The goings on at a club are much bigger. There's more to a football club that what happens on the field. We as fans only get to see that bit though and therefore evaluate everything based on that.

Having a happy camp is massively important and Dawson is never one to kick off or cause problems. I agree that he should be a bit part player. Perhaps he's agreed to be this? I don't know.

Dawson against some teams can be an asset. I know lots will disagree but he'll put his body on the line a lot more often than our other CBs. Sometimes you need that in a CB. Therefore a bit part player who's a top pro off the field may suit all.

 

[Yid1987]

&

I think he'd look at David Luiz being sold for £50m and think to himself "why the shit am I selling Vertonghen for £20m?"

£20m was an example. If he performs at WC the offer is likely to be more, making it even more likely Levy would be happy to deal.

 

[DaSpurs]

No problem. I get a snippet of info. The goings on at a club are much bigger. There's more to a football club that what happens on the field. We as fans only get to see that bit though and therefore evaluate everything based on that.

Having a happy camp is massively important and Dawson is never one to kick off or cause problems. I agree that he should be a bit part player. Perhaps he's agreed to be this? I don't know.

Dawson against some teams can be an asset. I know lots will disagree but he'll put his body on the line a lot more often than our other CBs. Sometimes you need that in a CB. Therefore a bit part player who's a top pro off the field may suit all.

Good stuff. ITK, and you genuinely know your football. Mad respect, and I'll be looking for your valued input in the future.

 

[Sandros Shiny Head]

Good stuff. ITK, and you genuinely know your football. Mad respect, and I'll be looking for your valued input in the future.

Does it smell nice?

 

[PhezTHFC]

how many times does @Yid1987 have to rerpeat the section of its his opinion ffs. I got it in the first read and info as always just cause it is new doesnt mean it needs to be questioned. It all seems genuine at least the mods are aware of it so it can't be just be someone making it up...

Thx for the info mate much appreciated! Keep it up, ITK's are thin on the ground and its nice to see people willing to share with the SC users

 

[Barry Mead]

Can see why you'd say that and I would have thought keeping Vert would be a priority but based on his attitude and performances last season I can understand being open to selling if we get offered top many. I'm not suggesting he will definitely be sold but just telling you what I was told.

This is totally opinion:
If we need to generate cash to spend then who out of our current squad would generate most? After all, this has been ENIC's model at Spurs. So if we could sell Vert for £20m and buy Lovren for £15m what do you think levy would do?

With regards to Daws it may have more to do with his importance off the field as well as in the dressing room. We got rid of a lot if players who understood the PL last summer (Parker, Caulker, Hudd). These players also knew the club. Again this part is opinion as I don't honestly know why the club would rather keep him than sell.

On performances last season Dawson was the better player of him and Verts. For sure our defence was poor last season, although without a full back at the club who has a scooby how to defend and the desire to play a high line regardless any CB would struggle. So both Daws and Verts struggled in a constantly changing line up along with the players around them, but Daws always tries always keeps going and trying to get the team going, Verts runs around with a face like a smacked arse.

I say that as someone who rates Verts, who wanted us to sign him before we were ever linked and a player of undoubted quality-when he's up for it, but sadly Verts doesn't always appear to be up for it and when not his performances suffer and instead of looking a real quality CB we know he can be he becomes at best distinctly average. It's not enough to be good when you feel like it, it's OK to have a poor game when you are trying, every player will make a few mistakes and have an odd bad game over a season, but it's not good when you don't appear to be trying or staying focussed

All last season we showed that apart from quality in key positions we lacked a lot in the character, drive and desire departments. We need to add to it not reduce it and keeping Dawson is a key part of that, we need his experience, character, leadership, drive and desire and we need to add some of those qualities in other players we bring in

 

[Flynn]

I think Belgium are the team in the WC this year that's quietly expected to do well but just won't rise to the occasion. There's always one and I've a feeling it's them. I wouldn't be expecting Dembele's or Vert's value to face a sudden £10M hike in the next few weeks.

I do think this is why we were flirting with so many Brazilians last summer though, Levy had half an eye on their value this summer.

 

[yojambo]

I don't know about getting rid of Dawson. I think I remember hearing that Mourinho bought Parker and Smertin to Chelsea because of the intensity they brought to training sessions. Which I thought was interesting and something often overlooked. It's all very well having world class players but you need a number of those in your squad with a strong work ethic, that are going to put in 100% everyday and bring the best out of others.

 

[TH1239]

Why are we in need of selling players like Vertonghen or Paulinho in order to generate funds? The Premier League is awash in cash from the lucrative television deal, which netted us 30+ million pounds of additional revenue this past season. That money is only going to increase in the coming years, so there is no reason for us to open holes and weaken our squad by selling first XI players.

The players that should be sold are those who are almost certain not to start, but who have value in the transfer market. That would be Sigurdsson, Lennon, and Livermore, who combined could probably fetch us between 20-25 million pounds. That's almost enough to sign Konoplyanka and either Schar or Lovren.

The bottom line: keep all of our key players, add 3 players that can slot in as starters at LWF, CB, LB, and have a real go at the top of the table. If you fail, then you can turn around and sell Vertonghen, Paulinho, or whoever next summer. For once, let's see what happens if we simply add to what is a very strong squad.

 

[rawhide]

Why are we in need of selling players like Vertonghen or Paulinho in order to generate funds? The Premier League is awash in cash from the lucrative television deal, which netted us 30+ million pounds of additional revenue this past season. That money is only going to increase in the coming years, so there is no reason for us to open holes and weaken our squad by selling first XI players.

The players that should be sold are those who are almost certain not to start, but who have value in the transfer market. That would be Sigurdsson, Lennon, and Livermore, who combined could probably fetch us between 20-25 million pounds. That's almost enough to sign Konoplyanka and either Schar or Lovren.

The bottom line: keep all of our key players, add 3 players that can slot in as starters at LWF, CB, LB, and have a real go at the top of the table. If you fail, then you can turn around and sell Vertonghen, Paulinho, or whoever next summer. For once, let's see what happens if we simply add to what is a very strong squad.

New stadium.

 

[PhezTHFC]

New stadium.

Am guessing you mean in revenue and not player sales. A lot of Brazilians are disliking Paulinho ATM. Be intriguing to see who or if we sign anyone from Southampton but am crossing fingers for Lovren. Also this will please Lloris as they are good friends my main hope for this summer is keeping him. Hoping the ITK on Vorm was wrong as he isn't a number 2....

 

[SpurSince57]

Why are we in need of selling players like Vertonghen or Paulinho in order to generate funds? The Premier League is awash in cash from the lucrative television deal, which netted us 30+ million pounds of additional revenue this past season. That money is only going to increase in the coming years, so there is no reason for us to open holes and weaken our squad by selling first XI players.

The players that should be sold are those who are almost certain not to start, but who have value in the transfer market. That would be Sigurdsson, Lennon, and Livermore, who combined could probably fetch us between 20-25 million pounds. That's almost enough to sign Konoplyanka and either Schar or Lovren.

The bottom line: keep all of our key players, add 3 players that can slot in as starters at LWF, CB, LB, and have a real go at the top of the table. If you fail, then you can turn around and sell Vertonghen, Paulinho, or whoever next summer. For once, let's see what happens if we simply add to what is a very strong squad.

In the first place, there are other calls on the TV money. There's the stadium, for beginners, and then there are wages: in the year ending June 2008, our turnover was £114m, with £52m (or 46% of it) going on wages; five years on, turnover had risen to £147m, but wages had shot up to £96m, or 65%.

On top of that, transfer fees are inflating. Arsenal signed Cazorla for £16m/£17m two years ago; now, with £25m being talked about for the likes of Lallana, that's starting to look like a real snip.

 

[yankspurs]

So what have I missed this weekend? Any ITK for me to wank off to? Your boy was busy losing $1000 in Atlantic City.

 

[jedimonkey]

So what have I missed this weekend? Any ITK for me to wank off to? Your boy was busy losing $1000 in Atlantic City.

Ah man, now your going to be all pissed and grumpy instead of being your normal cheerful self.

 

[yankspurs]

Ah man, now your going to be all pissed and grumpy instead of being your normal cheerful self.

Oh im still cheerful

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

New stadium.

Think that's a bit melodramatic.

I mean if we are having to sell two of our best players to help finance the new gin palace then let's just ground share with Stevenage.

Makes just as much sense.