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The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - 7th July

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Hotspurious

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Aug 29, 2016
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We're not a fucking franchise, that's the point.
yeah, but you knew what the guy meant (or at least do now) so being a twat about it doesn't really accomplish much. As for polluting good sports with bullshit phrases...I'm kind of with you on that although again it's just easier to appreciate the differences in language. There are a lot of fine sports in America by the way. If you don't like them...that's cool. I don't really get Cricket or Rugby and don't get me started on Australian rules football. But that's cool...I don't begrudge fans of these sports.
 

thebenjamin

Well-Known Member
Jul 1, 2008
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I think talk of him being on 350k after tax is slightly irrelevant. If he leaves Madrid he isnt getting near that anywhere from any club in the world (that he would want to go to) and if he is told he is surplus to requirements he doesnt strike me as the type to stay for the wages.

As for who he would replace (if by some miracle he signed) I would like to see Eriksen drop back deeper.

Then he just won't leave. That's what happens with people on massive contracts. They stay where they are unless someone offers them more.
 

mugpunt

Active Member
Mar 7, 2006
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Interesting that you should comment on my linguistic exposure without knowing a thing about me. As an Englishman living in America and working with languages on a professional level, I feel I'm quite well placed to judge whether something is only used in the UK, America or both. I'm not saying I'm the leading authority on all things English language but given my exposure to both I feel I'm able to make a fairly educated judgement without having to "trawl through soccer forums" as you put it.

I'm fully aware that language changes over time. As you pointed out, using "literally" in the way I did has now become fairly commonplace. But that's just it. It's now so commonplace that who is anyone, including yourself, to say it's wrong. Calling a football/soccer player in Europe a "franchise player" on the other hand is not at all commonplace. In fact, as I mentioned, I've never heard anyone use that term outside of talking about North American sports. Presumably because, as I already pointed out, football teams in Europe are not franchises so the term doesn't make even the least bit of sense.

Feel free to trawl through forums but I'm afraid you'll find very little evidence to back up your claim, except perhaps for a few Americans who are new to football and so they fall back on the terminology they know because they haven't yet picked up on the vernacular of football in Europe, which is what I suspect you are..? There's nothing wrong with that at all. But just admit that you made a mistake rather than floundering about trying to save a sinking ship by trying to make out like it's a perfectly normal phrase to use.

The phrase you're probably looking for is "star player". Honestly, you can call it what you like as long as it makes sense. But you can't talk about someone being a "franchise player" when they don't play for a franchise.

This is the ITK thread and this conversation becomes a derailment of it (not that today's has been on the topic in any fashion), but as you chose to make a 'definitional' linguistic point here I shall make my final attempt to respond politely before exiting it stage left...And not that my background is relevant but it apparently mirrors your own.

As you now note, you could expect to see the term franchise player used (albeit uncommonly) on forums! And as 'soccer' becomes increasingly globalised the language of the world's biggest sports market and producer of sports video games will apply itself irrespective of the English original roots. And though our club isn't a franchise, the concept of a 'star player' fronting a franchise/club's publicity in new markets (recall the Bale in times square Billboard for example) is far more common in US sports than in European ones until the Galactico (another borrowed term) period at Real Madrid when the brand-marketing arms race kicked off on a whole new level.

Therefore it is the phrase which IMO (and in my experience) best describes, what is a relatively new phenomenon in English/European sports. Rooney was a 'star player', but was ugly and consequently less front and center in their club marketing in the US and elsewhere, in the same, way that Pogba, for example, is tall and handsome and will increasingly become Manchester United's 'franchise player'. This phenomenon is best described and indeed is increasingly used by the term 'franchise player' (though as you note most football clubs Mk Dons excepted, are not franchises) and not adequately described by the term 'Star Player' which describes primarily their on the field value.

Eriksen may soon become our star player but based on personality/appearance won't become our 'brand front man' to coin a more clumsy term that explains my point in the face of I'm interpreting as pedantry at this point. Unless your dual professional role is to edit dictionaries you don't have the standing and cannot (as the 'literally' example was brought to demonstrate) dogmatically define what is 'sensical' to describe newly evolving phenomena even if it lacks optimal precision.

So anyway Juna forth eh... what a soccer-baller linked with us now ;)
 
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TEESSIDE1

Married, new job and Spurs on the up!
Jul 3, 2006
15,089
18,780
The sad thing about the mass influx of contradictory ITK is that it was most likely done on purpose by the club but it is unclear whether it has been done with the intention to mask what the club is up to (e.g. to complete signings without the media having a clue what is going on) or as a PR exercise, which sadly the club has done before. If the latter then Levy and co don't just risk the wrath of the players and Poch but also the massive fan base. I hope it's the former.
 

robertgoulet

SC Resident Crooner Extraordinaire
Jul 23, 2013
3,610
12,552
Did we ever get confirmation on that 2nd but of ITK that A&C mentioned last night (the good news bit)?
 

WiganSpur

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
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Don't know about anyone else but i'm struggling to believe which side of this story is true.

For all the negative stuff, I honestly can't believe DL would be such a dimwit to renege on promises with arguably one of our greatest managers. Surely from both a footballing and financial perspective MP is hands down the right man for this job. It absolutely perplexes me that he would do anything to put a strain on the relationship, especially when we are told targets are affordable and willing to come. Why would he (or any rational chairman) do this unless there was some underlying motive to do so?

However, a lot of this kind of stuff has come out about DL over the years. He seems like a man who likes to wield power, does anyone not think that there is no smoke without fire to all of these reports?

One explanation that fits into both of these theories is that DL is a man who wants to feel in control and does not want to let Pochettino gain too much influence within the club. Politics at play possibly.
 

nailsy

SC Supporter
Jul 24, 2005
30,536
46,628
When bales transfer leaked I'm sure there was a clause that if Madrid accepted an offer we had the right to match it.

So I guess technically it is in our hands.

That has to be the worst clause ever.
 

arunspurs

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
8,807
35,543
Mawson will be a very good signing for us. Instead of comparing to Wimmer to Mawson, just looking at Mawson in isolation:
His career trajectory is similar to Dele. In last 4 years, he has played for Conference, League 2, League 1 and last season PL.
He has also proving to be very good goal scorer, scoring 16 in last 3 seasons (4 in PL).

He has risen to the challenge every single year including replacing Williams at CB. Based on it, would say he will again step up in a better Spurs side.
 

faze_coys

Well-Known Member
Dec 14, 2010
3,138
4,796
yeah, but you knew what the guy meant (or at least do now) so being a twat about it doesn't really accomplish much. As for polluting good sports with bullshit phrases...I'm kind of with you on that although again it's just easier to appreciate the differences in language. There are a lot of fine sports in America by the way. If you don't like them...that's cool. I don't really get Cricket or Rugby and don't get me started on Australian rules football. But that's cool...I don't begrudge fans of these sports.

Franchise is not 'bullshit phrase' tbh, most american sports teams are franchises (e.g MLS own all the teams and player contracts and franchise the teams out)

This is not the case in england, so calling it a franchise is just plainly wrong, and not a difference in language.
 

Spurger King

can't smile without glue
Jul 22, 2008
43,881
95,147
So just to clarify...Nike are paying to bring Bale to Spurs Franchise™ to advertise Adidas and be our new Awesome Soccer MVP all star, because Levy is a tight bastard?
 

doctor stefan Freud

the tired tread of sad biology
Sep 2, 2013
15,170
72,169
wow not sure where to start . . As far as Barkley is concerned I 've been told nothing agreed. Like Breezer I was told something about Bale back in May but refused to believe it until it was explained that the financials could work. Bale would not be sold for anywhere near what we sold him for he is with Nike so large sponsorship deal I.e. personal image rights bonus and a load of other spin offs. Not saying it will get done but not totally put of the realms of possibility.
Just did a double dribble. Not done that since 1993
 

chinaman

Well-Known Member
Jul 19, 2003
17,974
12,423
Bale will be 29 by the time we move into the new stadium, if his injury record doesn't improve this year we could get him on the cheap (relatively speaking) and he may be willing to give us a discount on his wage demands (unlikely but you never know). But would it be worth it, big money for an injury prone 29 year old
What a load of bollocks, Bale loves the club and would play for £30k a week and he'd give half of that to the Tottenham Hotspur Foundation.


So he literally bails out the Foundation.
 
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