The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - 9th June 2019

[George94]

Spot on, brilliant post.

Recent ITK etc hugely promising however as you say the mooted signings would still leave us slightly short.

Ndomble
Sessengon x2
Clarke
+ upgrade tripper
+ extra AM competition Ora fully fit and firing lamela.

That's the problem you leave yourself in when you don't do business for two transfer windows - we're now having to find solutions to multiple positions in one window rather than over two or three.

 

[JKendall13]

I remember games last year where on our subs bench would be Davies, Foyth, KWP, Wanyama, Dier, and Llorente. You'd be looking at it wondering how we could possibly make a sub to change the game if we were trailing. At least with Clarke and Sessengnon you have a pair of young attackers you can bring on to run at defenders. That will be immediate impact even if it takes a couple years for them to start consistently.

 

[JayB]

Nowhere in the ITK did they say that we won't make further signings after the 3 mentioned (4 if Steven Sessegnon comes). In fact it even says we will get a RB once we sell one. There have been reports we are willing to sell Wanyama or Dier too, which suggests we'd be keen to add there too.

One step at a time. The signing of Ndombele will be seismic if we complete it. Finally delivering a top target for Poch. A real statement of intent and proof of our arrival as a serious player on the European scene.

A recommitted Eriksen would be as good a signing as we can make this season too IMHO.

That's all true but my reading of the ITK is that we'll be more conservative than had previously been believed. Before it was looking possible that we might bring in both Ndombele and Lo Celso regardless of outgoings, which would have given us the squad depth in CM and competition for Eriksen that we're crying out for and left us with only right back as a glaring issue to be addressed.

If it's the case that incomings aside from the three/four seemingly imminent transfers will be based on revenue generated from sales then I think it's realistic to say that we ought to temper our expectations somewhat from the hope that we'd held before in bringing in both Ndombele and Lo Celso. Of course it remains to be seen what will happen and it's always possible that Levy will pull a rabbit out of the hat.

All I'm saying is that even if we do leave ourselves a bit short, which IMO seems likely, at the end of the day it appears that we will be making major progress and we should appreciate that for what it is.

 

[Timberwolf]

I remember games last year where on our subs bench would be Davies, Foyth, KWP, Wanyama, Dier, and Llorente. You'd be looking at it wondering how we could possibly make a sub to change the game if we were trailing. At least with Clarke and Sessengnon you have a pair of young attackers you can bring on to run at defenders. That will be immediate impact even if it takes a couple years for them to start consistently.

Good point. Other than one great cameo and assist against Fulham when we were neck deep in injuries, Nkoudou was essentially a placeholder with no chance of ever coming on. With players like Clarke and Sessegnon, while there's no guarantee of output, at least we'd be developing young homegrown talent for the future.

(Weird to think that were it not for that Nkoudou cross we might not have got into the Champions League)

 

[mill]

Spot on, brilliant post.

Recent ITK etc hugely promising however as you say the mooted signings would still leave us slightly short.

Ndomble
Sessengon x2
Clarke
+ upgrade tripper
+ extra AM competition Ora fully fit and firing lamela.

Yeah Rita isn’t bad but I think lamela’s already got a mrs

 

[Bulletspur]

I remember games last year where on our subs bench would be Davies, Foyth, KWP, Wanyama, Dier, and Llorente. You'd be looking at it wondering how we could possibly make a sub to change the game if we were trailing. At least with Clarke and Sessengnon you have a pair of young attackers you can bring on to run at defenders. That will be immediate impact even if it takes a couple years for them to start consistently.

You must not have seen KWP play, as being a young attacking defender, he does run at opposite defenders and has created numerous assists both for us and the England under 21 when he plays. I am just puzzled why Poch does not use him more.

 

[SpartanSpur]

That's all true but my reading of the ITK is that we'll be more conservative than had previously been believed. Before it was looking possible that we might bring in both Ndombele and Lo Celso regardless of outgoings, which would have given us the squad depth in CM and competition for Eriksen that we're crying out for and left us with only right back as a glaring issue to be addressed.

If it's the case that incomings aside from the three/four seemingly imminent transfers will be based on revenue generated from sales then I think it's realistic to say that we ought to temper our expectations somewhat from the hope that we'd held before in bringing in both Ndombele and Lo Celso. Of course it remains to be seen what will happen and it's always possible that Levy will pull a rabbit out of the hat.

All I'm saying is that even if we do leave ourselves a bit short, which IMO seems likely, at the end of the day it appears that we will be making major progress and we should appreciate that for what it is.

Ah ok - I get that. I never really believed that would be the case with Lo Celso if Eriksen stayed, so no hopes crushed for me. I do agree that would probably push us over the edge, but a £50m+ rotation player is probably still out of our financial reach. However no one has said it's dead yet either.

I'm pretty hopeful if we get the 3 mooted done before preseason, we'll add another 1-2 before the window closes, including the key one at RB. I have a feeling DM will be the area we have to 'make do' in, which I think Poch can work around.

It'd still be the best squad Poch has had to work with regardless IMHO, I wouldn't write off a challenge personally.

 

[Luka Van der Bale]

That's all true but my reading of the ITK is that we'll be more conservative than had previously been believed. Before it was looking possible that we might bring in both Ndombele and Lo Celso regardless of outgoings, which would have given us the squad depth in CM and competition for Eriksen that we're crying out for and left us with only right back as a glaring issue to be addressed.

If it's the case that incomings aside from the three/four seemingly imminent transfers will be based on revenue generated from sales then I think it's realistic to say that we ought to temper our expectations somewhat from the hope that we'd held before in bringing in both Ndombele and Lo Celso. Of course it remains to be seen what will happen and it's always possible that Levy will pull a rabbit out of the hat.

All I'm saying is that even if we do leave ourselves a bit short, which IMO seems likely, at the end of the day it appears that we will be making major progress and we should appreciate that for what it is.

There’s been no suggestion from ITK that those additional transfers were based on the revenue from sales. I had taken it to mean that they’d be coming in to take their squad places e.g. we’ll sign a right-back if Trippier leaves, a CB if Toby leaves etc.

 

[JayB]

Ah ok - I get that. I never really believed that would be the case with Lo Celso if Eriksen stayed, so no hopes crushed for me. I do agree that would probably push us over the edge, but a £50m+ rotation player is probably still out of our financial reach. However no one has said it's dead yet either.

I'm pretty hopeful if we get the 3 mooted done before preseason, we'll add another 1-2 before the window closes, including the key one at RB. I have a feeling DM will be the area we have to 'make do' in, which I think Poch can work around.

It'd still be the best squad Poch has had to work with regardless IMHO, I wouldn't write off a challenge personally.

Completely agreed. Just feel that adding Lo Celso would enable Winks and Sissoko to paper over the cracks if Dier and Wanyama don't perform, but without stretching the midfield too thin in terms of a lack of rotation. Signing Lo Celso would kill two birds with one stone in that he'd give us the central midfield squad depth we are lacking and also provide the competition/rotation for Eriksen that we need.

Without him we'd probably be leaving ourselves that one player short, but who knows -- maybe Poch will be able to get more out of what he already has, or it could be the case that we manage to shift enough of the deadwood to make the Lo Celso signing possible. It should be an exciting squad either way.

 

[JKendall13]

You must not have seen KWP play, as being a young attacking defender, he does run at opposite defenders and has created numerous assists both for us and the England under 21 when he plays. I am just puzzled why Poch does not use him more.

None of the names referenced were a comment on the specific players, but rather our lack of attacking options. KWP attacks very nicely from the RB position. But when you're down 1-0 to Burnley in the 70th minute and looking to make a change, it's not ideal that the best attacking option on your bench is a fullback.

 

[JayB]

There’s been no suggestion from ITK that those additional transfers were based on the revenue from sales. I had taken it to mean that they’d be coming in to take their squad places e.g. we’ll sign a right-back if Trippier leaves, a CB if Toby leaves etc.

I hope that's the case but with the ITK that we won't be splashing out £40m for a RB -- which isn't even the going rate for a top prospect -- I read it to mean that a lack of funds could be a limiting factor for us this summer. That wouldn't be surprising given how we've operated for the past decade and the long list of business we need to get done, but it would obviously be great if it were only a lack of space in the squad that was holding us back.

 

[SpartanSpur]

Completely agreed. Just feel that adding Lo Celso would enable Winks and Sissoko to paper over the cracks if Dier and Wanyama don't perform, but without stretching the midfield too thin in terms of a lack of rotation. Signing Lo Celso would kill two birds with one stone in that he'd give us the central midfield squad depth we are lacking and also provide the competition/rotation for Eriksen that we need.

Without him we'd probably be leaving ourselves that one player short, but who knows -- maybe Poch will be able to get more out of what he already has, or it could be the case that we manage to shift enough of the deadwood to make the Lo Celso signing possible. It should be an exciting squad either way.

I hope we find a way to get him. ITK has dried up but that's understandable with him playing in the Copa and Betis hoping to get the highest fee possible. Makes sense to walk away for now. I hope Levy ends up doing a madness and gets him still. By all accounts Poch has won the player over.

It is a shame that we don't seem to have any real saleable assets aside from Trippier. Maybe we could somehow shift Lamela back to Italy to fund GLC.

It just seems a bit crazy to think we could make a £90-100m net spend on the 3 mentioned (whilst keeping the services of Toby and Eriksen) and not be happy about it, especially after recent years!

 

[Led Revolver]

Hope this helps people catch up with the flurry of ITK today. Please delete/edit/move if necessary, @Archibald&Crooks

POTENTIAL INCOMINGS
Clarke- close’ (Ali Z) / done (Ghostofarmo) / imminent deal (Hercules) / no loan back apparently & ‘won’t be the only one’ in relation to buying players for the future (ValenciaYid)
Ndombele- Chased for 12mths, not yet completely over the line (Ali Z) / medical tomorrow (Ghostofarmo) / imminent deal (Hercules) / (Grey Fox) / Sky Sports suffering from ‘premature announcelation’ (JJ)
Sessegnon bros- ‘close’ (Ali Z) / imminent deal (Hercules)
Potential right back- any incoming deals dependant on outgoings (Ali Z) / Trippier most likely to leave, but we won’t be spending £40m on a right back as things stand (Hercules)
Aarons- club keen for a while, doubt Norwich will sell this summer (Ali Z)
Lo Celso- someone will need to leave first, Poch likes a small squad. Maybe Lamela (Ali Z) / all about the finances, Betis sticking to what they want. The club is using a strategy, if it doesn’t work, we’ll look elsewhere (Hercules)
Zaha- strong interest from us (Poch). Talks ongoing (Breezer) / Given us the run around the previous 2 seasons, classed as unlikely (Trix) / wants CL (Hercules)
Bale- possible unknown signing (speculative) (Ali Z)

CURRENT CONTRACT SITUATIONS
Alderweireld- no concrete offers, will probably see out deal (Ali Z)
Eriksen- only wants the 2 Spanish giants, no concrete offer so will likely sign new deal (Ali Z)

POTENTIAL OUTGOINGS
Janssen- departure ‘nearly complete’ (Ali Z) / a deal is not close (The Goat)
Trippier- departure ‘nearly complete’ (Ali Z)
Carter-Vickers, Nkoudou & Onomah- trying to be shifted by club (Ali Z)

OTHER TRANSFER NEWS
Wan-Bissaka to complete £50m move to Manchester United (BBC) (to comment on this, please do so via the Aaron Wan-Bissaka thread)

FINANCIAL SPECULATION
Sky Sports say Poch was given 70% of our Champions League revenue, and chose to spend it all on Tanguy Ndombele - ‘incorrect’ (Hercules)

Still updating.. someone else can do tomorrow’s!

 

[rajmak]

I think kwp and aurier will get their season to impress with tripper being sold and if either of them don’t cut it we will look to replace next season

 

[Sandros Shiny Head]

How can we simultaneously say that selling ‘shit’ Trippier for £25m is great business and also replacing someone so awful for under £40m is impossible?

 

[JayB]

How can we simultaneously say that selling ‘shit’ Trippier for £25m is great business but and also replacing someone so awful for under £40m is impossible?

It depends what standard you're applying to his replacement. I think a lot of us were hoping that we'd bring in a genuine first choice-quality player to slot in immediately in the starting XI, and with the market what it is it seems unlikely that we'll be able to find that without being willing to spend. If your standard is that you'd be happy with a young talent or unheralded signing who can compete with Aurier(or no signing at all and letting KWP stake his claim) then obviously getting shot of Trippier and replacing him with a budget signing would suffice.

 

[hutchiniho]

Re Ali Z, So basically Ndombele, Clark, & the Sessegnon’s. Everything else depends on outgoings and so far it seems like none are really close. Have I got that tight?

I’m fine with keeping Toby if what he says is the case. But i cant imagine nobody comes in for him. It’s £25m. For a player like Toby, that is an insanely good price. Someone will come in for him eventually. Just hope it isnt an English club.

Exactly this. And it worries me a little.
All clubs know the picture and if I was an opposing club I would leave triggering the release fee as late as possible to obviously give Spurs as little time as possible to react and replace.
I guess this year we will muddle through with Dier and Foyth as CBS if Toby does go.

RB has to be a priority.
AWB seems like an expensive deal but as has been said, that’s what you have to pay for a Prem league RB. His tweet in a Utd shirt says this one has gone. I do think we need to be dropping bigger bucks on A* talent not just getting by with a category B type player. Not that many A* out there for £40m tho. Young talent to develop for us it seems.

 

[ThereIsOnlyOneBent]

Leaving it late with a huge risk that another club triggering it first ? Doesn’t make sense to me

 

[JamieSpursCommunityUser]

Exactly this. And it worries me a little.
All clubs know the picture and if I was an opposing club I would leave triggering the release fee as late as possible to obviously give Spurs as little time as possible to react and replace.
I guess this year we will muddle through with Dier and Foyth as CBS if Toby does go.

RB has to be a priority.
AWB seems like an expensive deal but as has been said, that’s what you have to pay for a Prem league RB. His tweet in a Utd shirt says this one has gone. I do think we need to be dropping bigger bucks on A* talent not just getting by with a category B type player. Not that many A* out there for £40m tho. Young talent to develop for us it seems.

No so sure about that.

In case of a PL team, signing Toby late gives them no pre-season to organise their defence, and runs the risk of being gazumped.

And whoever we sign, Sanchez will likely be the starter anyway, at least early on. So doesn't really destabilise us like the Berbatov days.

My theory as I posted in the player thread is that clubs aren't bidding as his people have told them he's seeing out his contract for a final pay day.

To make up for the £10-15m in lost earnings by staying on £60k p/w for 2-3 years.

If so, his agent or advisors are absolutely useless.

 

[m*****73]

Exactly this. And it worries me a little.
All clubs know the picture and if I was an opposing club I would leave triggering the release fee as late as possible to obviously give Spurs as little time as possible to react and replace.
I guess this year we will muddle through with Dier and Foyth as CBS if Toby does go.

I could be wrong, but I thought Toby's release clause expired with 2 weeks remaining in the transfer window - therefore, if it was triggered, we would have those final two weeks to sign a replacement.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...hotspur-toby-alderweireld-deal-release-clause