The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - Ooooh! FRIDAY the 13th June 2014

[DaSpurs]

I know managers like signing players from their old clubs, but I'm not sure about Lovren.

I think he's just ok. Plus, he looked utter dogshit when they played us at the Lane.

We should definitely not spend more than 5-6m on him.

There are many advantages to him specifically that have been repeated far too many times as of this point for me to do so again, but these advantages certainly give him an edge in my book in a head-to-head comparison against other potential CB options.

Also, you cannot hold that game against him. Soldado clearly fouled him to get the ball to set up our second goal. That along with Vertonghen pantsing Helenius at Villa in the League Cup are far and away two of the luckiest calls I've ever seen in our favor, considering they so often go the other way (our three rescinded red cards for instance in the course of two months).

 

[SpurSince57]

Agreed....and honestly as much as we all love to jump on an bash a player for doing something like this, and as much as we would all love to jump up and say we would play anywhere for free....put in their shoes, would we really?

In the end for most of these guys this is a job....they may love what they do, but it is in the end a job and a job with a very small window to capitalize on earning potential.

How many non-footballers jump to new jobs in their chosen profession for a higher salary or better benefits without batting an eye?

Effectively, that is what these players are doing...especially guys from outside the UK (or in Europe outside the country of the league), very few will have any deep rooted emotional connection to the team they are playing for and in the end, regardless of how they actually feel about the club and its supporters it is still a job.

Could they handle it better than going on strike and forcing a move?...yes, absolutely. But these guys are doing what anyone else in the world does, looking out for their own self interest. Guy like Lovren probably got a raise moving from Ligue 1 to Soton and now Soton has fired his boss that he liked and seems direction-less, meanwhile he knows if he can move to another squad further up the footballing totem pole he is likely to get yet another raise. So he is going to try and do everything he can think of to move elsewhere to help his own interests.

It may seem greedy, it may seem cold and tactless. But in the end how many of us have moved jobs for a chance at a better paycheck? Shorter commute? Better boss?...the way it is done differs but the result is very similar.

It seems to me that a lot of fans look back to a Golden Age when players stayed with their clubs season in, season out, showing a loyalty that just doesn't exist today.

Bollocks. They were tied to their clubs, with a £20 a week maximum wage until 1961. Once you'd signed on the dotted line, that was your lot. You were with the club for life, until the club decided otherwise. The clubs didn't always show much loyalty to their players, either.

 

[MunkoSpurs]

Lovren is under contract to play for Southampton though and only last year was happy to sign a 4 year contract. If we go on strike with our jobs or don't fulfil our duties, we wouldn't get paid. Is it any different for footballers?

 

[SpurSince57]

Lovren is under contract to play for Southampton though and only last year was happy to sign a 4 year contract. If we go on strike with our jobs or don't fulfil our duties, we wouldn't get paid. Is it any different for footballers?

Not as far as I'm aware, but you'd seriously miss a few weeks' salary whereas it's one less Bentley to a footballer (and he can get it with his pay rise from his new club).

This is just ITK, remember, and the question isn't going to arise until August anyway.

 

[MunkoSpurs]

Not as far as I'm aware, but you'd seriously miss a few weeks' salary whereas it's one less Bentley to a footballer (and he can get it with his pay rise from his new club).

This is just ITK, remember, and the question isn't going to arise until August anyway.

Fully aware that it's ITK (pinch of salt and all that) so I'm not judging Lovren specifically. Just the attitude of footballers in general who decide to do this. They are happy to sign long term contracts when it suits them but want to jump ship as soon as they like. I understand that everyone looks to better themselves but if a player signs a long contract, they should be prepared to stay for that duration. If they want to leave then it's up to the club to receive the value they want and not try and push a move by going on strike.

 

[Lancaster Spur]

Long term contracts work both ways remember, clubs like long term deals to make sure if they are 'forced' to sell they get a decent return fee. A player with only a year left on his contract simply doesn't command the same premium as a plyer with 3+ years left.

 

[chinaman]

Whilst it's good news he loves Poch which would help us, I don't like how he is willing to go on strike to get his move. What if performs well here and then does same thing to us?

Then Levy will make a bundle.

 

[Dirty Ewok]

Lovren is under contract to play for Southampton though and only last year was happy to sign a 4 year contract. If we go on strike with our jobs or don't fulfil our duties, we wouldn't get paid. Is it any different for footballers?

Very true....keep in mind two things.

First, clubs often will not offer short contracts because it doesn't help them in the least bit if they need/want to sell down the line. Even worse if the player turns good then they can potentially lose the player for nothing.

Second...players effectively can't just give notice and quit and move to a better situation. For most (obviously not all) people outside of a profession like footballing if they have a better opportunity elsewhere they can give a set amount of notice (with my company it is 3 weeks) and go take that better opportunity, most of the time if you don't give the full notice it still isn't a harsh penalty, maybe you sacrifice a bonus if you are very unlucky some of your upcoming pay.

However if a player were to "give notice" and quit it would turn into a huge legal fight and more often than not they would have to repay wages already earned in some manner to the team. Even then in most cases the club would have to give up rights to the player....so a player can quit but he may end up owing wages to the team, sacrificing bonuses and on top of it if the team doesn't forfeit their rights to the player he can't sign with another team.

 

[DaSpurs]

Fully aware that it's ITK (pinch of salt and all that) so I'm not judging Lovren specifically. Just the attitude of footballers in general who decide to do this. They are happy to sign long term contracts when it suits them but want to jump ship as soon as they like. I understand that everyone looks to better themselves but if a player signs a long contract, they should be prepared to stay for that duration. If they want to leave then it's up to the club to receive the value they want and not try and push a move by going on strike.

Everything here is right, but you have to also consider what the club told or promised him to elicit him signing such a long contract. While not excusing a player for "striking," I think it is fair for him to want out after only a year if he feels the club has reneged on their end of that guarantee.

A year ago when he signed, they had a determined and highly involved chairman, a new coach, and had made several acquisitions suggestive of winning intent. Is it so hard to blame him now for feeling that the circumstances he was led to believe would be there for that contract duration are now gone, and consequently allow him to feel he is no longer of any obligation to wish to remain under such circumstances for the remainder of the duration of his contract?

 

[MunkoSpurs]

Everything here is right, but you have to also consider what the club told or promised him to elicit him signing such a long contract. While not excusing a player for "striking," I think it is fair for him to want out after only a year if he feels the club has reneged on their end of that guarantee.

A year ago when he signed, they had a determined and highly involved chairman, a new coach, and had made several acquisitions suggestive of winning intent. Is it so hard to blame him now for feeling that the circumstances he was led to believe would be there for that contract duration are now gone, and consequently allow him to feel he is no longer of any obligation to wish to remain under such circumstances for the remainder of the duration of his contract?

I can understand your points and see the reasons why he would want to leave and understand that the circumstances now are different to when he signed. Maybe he feels that this would be reason enough not to fulfil his contract and justify striking.
I think that we all agree that this shouldn't be the way to instigate a move though. In general, wouldn't it be better for clubs and players to discuss these eventualities before signing contracts and have clauses submitted? Both to protect the club and the player should circumstances within the club change. It should be able to work both ways.

 

[DaSpurs]

I can understand your points and see the reasons why he would want to leave and understand that the circumstances now are different to when he signed. Maybe he feels that this would be reason enough not to fulfil his contract and justify striking.
I think that we all agree that this shouldn't be the way to instigate a move though. In general, wouldn't it be better for clubs and players to discuss these eventualities before signing contracts and have clauses submitted? Both to protect the club and the player should circumstances within the club change. It should be able to work both ways.

I completely agree, but the sheer degree to which their project looked promising and has now fallen apart could never have been predicted, or even given favorable odds of happening. What has happened to Saints has been a very unusual and extraneous situation, but I do agree with you nonetheless that threatening a strike (if true) is not the way he needs to go about this.

 

[Qualsonic]

I completely agree, but the sheer degree to which their project looked promising and has now fallen apart could never have been predicted, or even given favorable odds of happening. What has happened to Saints has been a very unusual and extraneous situation, but I do agree with you nonetheless that threatening a strike (if true) is not the way he needs to go about this.

Bollocks.
I predicted it.

 

[DaSpurs]

Bollocks.
I predicted it.

Well tou-fuckin-ché sir. I wish I had your skillz

 

[Hoddle&Waddle]

I completely agree, but the sheer degree to which their project looked promising and has now fallen apart could never have been predicted, or even given favorable odds of happening. What has happened to Saints has been a very unusual and extraneous situation, but I do agree with you nonetheless that threatening a strike (if true) is not the way he needs to go about this.

Not really. Small, ambitious Club attempts to build something, big Clubs see whats happening and strip their assets, also ensuring that small Club does not become big. It's happened thousands of times.

 

[Parkie]

It's very simple: he wants to go on strike because he wants to join us? All for it!
He wants to go on strike to leave us? I hate him and curse his family!

 

[DaSpurs]

Not really. Small, ambitious Club attempts to build something, big Clubs see whats happening and strip their assets, also ensuring that small Club does not become big. It's happened thousands of times.

No, not to this extent mate. This case isn't that simple that it can be logged in even with the trend of modern football. The sheer velocity of this club's meteoric rise is dwarfed only be the stunning rate at which it's now deteriorating. This couldn't have been expected a year ago, and it's consequently why so many of their fans have trekked over here and other Spurs boards to express their pain.

 

[Lilbaz]

No, not to this extent mate. This case isn't that simple that it can be logged in even with the trend of modern football. The sheer velocity of this club's meteoric rise is dwarfed only be the stunning rate at which it's now deteriorating. This couldn't have been expected a year ago, and it's consequently why so many of their fans have trekked over here and other Spurs boards to express their pain.

Please show me the posts. I need cheering up.

 

[DaSpurs]

Please show me the posts. I need cheering up.

Maybe after the game, but until then I'd like to encourage you to have a look at saintsweb. Really great way to feel better about your life, football club, and sense of reality.

Spoiler

there are some very sensible posters amidst all this, and they deserve credit, but the majority is pretty shocking

 

[Hoddle&Waddle]

No, not to this extent mate. This case isn't that simple that it can be logged in even with the trend of modern football. The sheer velocity of this club's meteoric rise is dwarfed only be the stunning rate at which it's now deteriorating. This couldn't have been expected a year ago, and it's consequently why so many of their fans have trekked over here and other Spurs boards to express their pain.

Hardly a meteoric rise, what is it 11th and 8th or something? I'd say what happened to Leeds United far eclipses this situation.

 

[DaSpurs]

Hardly a meteoric rise, what is it 11th and 8th or something? I'd say what happened to Leeds United far eclipses this situation.

Mate... try administration five years ago, League One three years ago, and now to 8th in the Barclays Premier League a year after buying starters from Roma, Lyon, and Celtic. Come now my good man, be reasonable.