The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - The 19 edition 26th May 2014

[Dirty Ewok]

Would suggest a big deal IMO.

And maybe a few contracts.
He doesnt normaly fly in.

Would be a big one (though wasn't Poch also the one Uncle Joe favored?).....when was the last time Joe even flew in?...normally its a case of Levy et al going to the mountain, not the mountain coming to London.

 

[Franchise60]

Southampton fans seem gutted to lose him but they have a different level of expectation to us, we expect CL qualification and rightly so, just hope he can deliver that

crux of the problem right here

we don't spend enough in wages or the transfer market to expect CL considering the 5 other teams we are competing with for those spots.

 

[TEESSIDE1]

Just onion but he normaly does not fly in for deals. So there is a reason for it. Maybe not just staff deals need to be signed? Or maybe a big outlay. Just onion.

You're very onionated aren't you lol

 

[wpd659]

Would be a big one (though wasn't Poch also the one Uncle Joe favored?).....when was the last time Joe even flew in?...normally its a case of Levy et al going to the mountain, not the mountain coming to London.

Exactly this.....

 

[Franchise60]

Champions League should always be the target/expectation/intention.
And as long as we're in there pitching, as Redknapp was and Villas Boas was, providing other issues don't cause chaos, then he'll continue.

What other suggestion should Levy make?

CL can be the target but not the expectation. Our wage bill is 40+ million less than the teams ahead of us and we expect to finish above those five teams?

Levy firing managers for not getting top 4 with the 6th best resources every year would be ludicrous.

 

[arunspurs]

If "the man" is coming to sign deals, let that be for a contract extension to Lloris & Sandro and may be when he leaves, let him sign Poch as well...

 

[arunspurs]

CL can be the target but not the expectation. Our wage bill is 40+ million less than the teams ahead of us and we expect to finish above those five teams?

Levy firing managers for not getting top 4 with the 6th best resources every year would be ludicrous.

Disagree...
Looking at salary figure is bit simplistic view.
How did we end up with a multi million dollar valued squad, practically no net investment for last 4 years ? Going by your view, we have no right to be in top half ,given we spent 200,000 net over the last 4 years.

Fact is, last season our squad had lots of injuries & lot of under performing players. And YET, we were one of the few teams who had a impeccable away record.

I agree that there was a world of difference between us & likes of Liverpool & City. But inspite of it we were in with a chance much of the season.

Player for player (except may be for Suarez), we have arguably more talented squad than Liverpool . Yet, they had a manager, who transformed their mediocre players to good ones and made the good ones look great. Same is true for Everton as well. Everton had no right to be in 5th place start of season with few loan players. In the end, they fell short but it is undeniable that their manager made a huge difference.

So, I have no problem with board asking new manager to push hard and expect to finish 4th.

 

[spurs9]

Technically, AY clarified that his "man" is the lawyer who signs the deals - not THE MAN.

Carry on.

Did every-one miss this post? It's not Joe Lewis coming over.

 

[coyspurs18]

Did every-one miss this post? It's not Joe Lewis coming over.

I went back and edited my post as well. It was odd how AY posted the lawyer bit. It looks like he went in and removed it, it could only be seen in somebody's response to him. I'm still honing my whoring skills.

 

[SpursSince1980]

I guess I'm lucky, 'cos I was equally happy with FDB or Pooch. Was less thrilled about Benitez to tell the truth. Any of the older guard feels like a temporary hire. Someone a bit younger, with a long term vision is what we need. AVB should have been that guy, but as we all know he struggled with man management and was just too inflexible in the end. I really like both of the aforementioned, but would lean toward Pooch, as he has already demonstrated that he has a handle on the PL. It will be a smoother transition for sure. Not really sure why so many on here are lukewarm or outright peeved at this hire... I think he will be a lovely breath of fresh air, and will have my utmost support!

 

[arunspurs]

We are 10th in league in terms of goals conceded. This is inspite of Lloris, probably our player of the season. We have one good CB and a bunch of mediocre players who don't defend as a team.If there is one department, where there is huge scope for improvement its our defense.

If it is Poch, I want him to be installed ASAP. Give him tickets to World cup and let him scout and find some defenders.

 

[Franchise60]

Disagree...
Looking at salary figure is bit simplistic view.
How did we end up with a multi million dollar valued squad, practically no net investment for last 4 years ? Going by your view, we have no right to be in top half ,given we spent 200,000 net over the last 4 years.

Fact is, last season our squad had lots of injuries & lot of under performing players. And YET, we were one of the few teams who had a impeccable away record.

I agree that there was a world of difference between us & likes of Liverpool & City. But inspite of it we were in with a chance much of the season.

Player for player (except may be for Suarez), we have arguably more talented squad than Liverpool . Yet, they had a manager, who transformed their mediocre players to good ones and made the good ones look great. Same is true for Everton as well. Everton had no right to be in 5th place start of season with few loan players. In the end, they fell short but it is undeniable that their manager made a huge difference.

So, I have no problem with board asking new manager to push hard and expect to finish 4th.

Wages have by far the biggest correlation with league finish.

The point is that if you are spending a distant 6th in wages to the top 5, then your best way to get into the top 4 is through doing everything else better than those 5 clubs, which can be difficult. You need stability and a top manager/set up. Even with those things, it is unrealistic to get top 4 every year. Compete for it yes, expect it no.

By sacking managers for not achieving an unrealistic goal (expecting too 4 every year), you are going to actually decrease your chances of having the long term success you are looking for.

4th or bust mandate would be a terrible way to run the club.

 

[yiddopaul]

I guess I'm lucky, 'cos I was equally happy with FDB or Pooch. Was less thrilled about Benitez to tell the truth. Any of the older guard feels like a temporary hire. Someone a bit younger, with a long term vision is what we need. AVB should have been that guy, but as we all know he struggled with man management and was just too inflexible in the end. I really like both of the aforementioned, but would lean toward Pooch, as he has already demonstrated that he has a handle on the PL. It will be a smoother transition for sure. Not really sure why so many on here are lukewarm or outright peeved at this hire... I think he will be a lovely breath of fresh air, and will have my utmost support!

Whichever one we hire, we're better off than last season. I'm quite excited by either of them (Ponch or FdB). But then, I feel excited/optimistic every 18 month anyway . I really hope that the fans, whatever their preference, will get behind fully the new manager from the off, and not post negative comments in the match day threads because a particular player wasn't picked. Lets just support whoever starts, and allow the manager to manage as I think we can all agree, he might know a little bit more about what he's doing than us.

 

[mw828]

Not sure Atlanta Yid's man will be the man much longer if he blatantly reveals his identity in a way the club will surely find out.

 

[arunspurs]

Wages have by far the biggest correlation with league finish.

The point is that if you are spending a distant 6th in wages to the top 5, then your best way to get into the top 4 is through doing everything else better than those 5 clubs, which can be difficult. You need stability and a top manager/set up. Even with those things, it is unrealistic to get top 4 every year. Compete for it yes, expect it no.

By sacking managers for not achieving an unrealistic goal (expecting too 4 every year), you are going to actually decrease your chances of having the long term success you are looking for.

4th or bust mandate would be a terrible way to run the club.

Let me clairfy.
I don't agree with sacking as well. But I stand by my point that 'there is nothing wrong in expecting to finish in top4 with the kind of squad we have'.

When Harry was there, he wasn't backed with money but he finished 4th twice. Remember, City/Chelsea & Liverpool at that time paid fatter salaries than us.

Today, Liverpool except for a select few (Gerrard, Suarez), pay less than what we pay as salary. Enlighten me, where they are in the league now.

Time & again teams have proved, that money doesn't decide the league positions.

Need more examples ? Go to Spain. Athletico Madrid, a team that was built on mere 35m. Where did they finish ?
CL runner up & won the league.

How did they do it ? They have a manager who made a talented squad play as a team.

All I want is this - Give our squad to a manager who can get the best of them. AVB failed miserably in 2nd season and Sherwood was even worse, alienating senior players.

Poch is coming with a good reference interms of player management. This is one of the reasons I will stand by Poch. He genuinely comes across someone who isnt afraid of throwing in youngsters and at the same time, make their senior players (like Lambert) play better than what they did previously.

 

[Franchise60]

Liverpool's wage bill was 132 million in 12/13, ours was 96. They also spent 89.4 million on transfers net the past 5 seasons while we were break even.

They aren't paupers.

Listing a bunch of teams that punched above their weight in specific scenarios is meaningless. The discussion is whether we should EXPECT top 4 each season which is just an irresponsible outlook that is a detriment to the success of the club.

CL should be the goal, not the complete barometer of success or failure.

 

[arunspurs]

I don't want to comment on this further and get the angry look from A&C.
Back to the topic, hope Poch is in by end of the week as ITKs seems to suggest.

 

[Lilbaz]

I went back and edited my post as well. It was odd how AY posted the lawyer bit. It looks like he went in and removed it, it could only be seen in somebody's response to him. I'm still honing my whoring skills.

Don't worry sweetie, all it take's is practice... and lube, plenty of lube

 

[mill]

No point bringing him in then, Harry delivered two fourths and a fifth place finish in his last three years and was sacked because Levy wanted better than that. Top four has to be the minimum, lets not start making excuses before we even start, we are supposedly looking for a manager who can deliver CL football on a consistent basis, anything less has to be considered failure, Jol got us 5th place first 8 years ago now and but for the Ramos screw up we have been treading water around fifth place since, stage by stage approach now is OK but 4th and above

Enic won't/can't put the money on the table to really make us compete, sure we can have a good season and get top 4 but we've really taken a step back over the past couple of seasons and it'll be hard to get back

 

[mill]

Liverpool have the CL to deal with and will have to significantly invest in their squad to cope. Also, Suarez might leave, which would be a huge blow to them. They could also be a one season wonder for all we know. It's also hard to tell how Utd will adapt to LVG's personality. They also need to sign a few players and they might take time to gel.

The fact most of your post is based on 'might' just proves we can't expect top 4 rather than hope for it