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The Daily ITK Discussion Thread THE DALZIEL & PASCOE EDITION 1st July 2016

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Lilbaz

Just call me Baz
Apr 1, 2005
41,363
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Not sure what the wtf and doh ratings are for. Toby, alli and dier were not marquee signings when we got them.
We scouted and got good deals. Toby had done well at soton but was a bench warmer for atletico. Alli and dier were only just getting on the radar.
I'd be happy with low key signings that can prove themselves. We don't have to go for world famous players that would cost a fortune in transfer fee and wages and have just as much chance of not working out.
 

Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2012
38,247
104,143
Not sure what the wtf and doh ratings are for. Toby, alli and dier were not marquee signings when we got them.
We scouted and got good deals. Toby had done well at soton but was a bench warmer for atletico. Alli and dier were only just getting on the radar.
I'd be happy with low key signings that can prove themselves. We don't have to go for world famous players that would cost a fortune in transfer fee and wages and have just as much chance of not working out.

Totally on board with this, our low key signings have turned out to be our most successful ones, we've obviously changed our M.I we sign players who are the best fit for the club and the system.

Obviously if a marquee player became available that the manager wants then that is slightly different but I don't see much chance of that happening.
 

poc

Well-Known Member
Aug 6, 2004
3,235
3,652
Not sure what the wtf and doh ratings are for. Toby, alli and dier were not marquee signings when we got them.
We scouted and got good deals. Toby had done well at soton but was a bench warmer for atletico. Alli and dier were only just getting on the radar.
I'd be happy with low key signings that can prove themselves. We don't have to go for world famous players that would cost a fortune in transfer fee and wages and have just as much chance of not working out.
Maybe it's because you say we don't need them at all and there are other perspectives out there that to truly break into the top tier you occasionally need to push the boat out. As I said with VJ and VW I'm fine with that I mean Christ in my lifetime this is the best we've been, but a near top tier player that would almost guarantee a positive impact and that touch of class I would love to see.
 

Lilbaz

Just call me Baz
Apr 1, 2005
41,363
74,893
Maybe it's because you say we don't need them at all and there are other perspectives out there that to truly break into the top tier you occasionally need to push the boat out. As I said with VJ and VW I'm fine with that I mean Christ in my lifetime this is the best we've been, but a near top tier player that would almost guarantee a positive impact and that touch of class I would love to see.

No player will guarantee a positive impact. No matter how much they cost.

Look at last summer. Depay, benteke, scniederlin, frimino, sterling were the biggest deals. None of them did better than alli or dier.
 

poc

Well-Known Member
Aug 6, 2004
3,235
3,652
No player will guarantee a positive impact. No matter how much they cost.

Look at last summer. Depay, benteke, scniederlin, frimino, sterling were the biggest deals. None of them did better than alli or dier.
Hence the "almost" :)
 

Parkie

Huge member
Jun 9, 2012
1,964
4,772
Anyone see the irony in VJ's transfer being held up by the Moneyball theory. Precisely the strategy that Levy has been accused of practising in the past.
Apparently PSG have bid for him too - had a fee agreed but he turned them down as he wants to come to us. Means there is a clear price tag there now so should be quick to do now.
Bring me rainbows!
 

TheHood

.................................
Jan 17, 2006
1,671
2,104
Maybe it's because you say we don't need them at all and there are other perspectives out there that to truly break into the top tier you occasionally need to push the boat out. As I said with VJ and VW I'm fine with that I mean Christ in my lifetime this is the best we've been, but a near top tier player that would almost guarantee a positive impact and that touch of class I would love to see.

It amazes me that this is still said when virtually of of marquee signings in recent years have failed to do that. Not only that but it is happening across the league as well. Just look at the number of high profile failures from last summer and yet still there is talk about these being almost guaranteed successes. The key, as always is signing the right player, his price or high profile status is largely irrelevant.
 

SpartanSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2011
12,552
43,063
It amazes me that this is still said when virtually of of marquee signings in recent years have failed to do that. Not only that but it is happening across the league as well. Just look at the number of high profile failures from last summer and yet still there is talk about these being almost guaranteed successes. The key, as always is signing the right player, his price or high profile status is largely irrelevant.

At lot of transfers don't work out, the reason we have had more success with lower fees is because we make many more signings in that price range. For every Alli there is a Dos Santos or Holtby or Routledge or Bostock, for every Dier a Stambouli or Capoue (attitude) or Fazio. The prices for Modric and Dembele were not too dissimilar to Paulinho and Bentley. Even Lamela is starting to come good (although not pricetag worthy yet). Yes Son wasn't as good as hoped but the cheaper N'Jie looks worse to me.

Yes we made some mistakes with the Bale money but I'm more confident in our current setup to highlight a suitable player. I think Lacazette would be one of those that could make the difference. Or someone like Gotze who could be a star again under someone like Poch.

Hopefully we are scouting some on the downlow, following on from our unsuccessful interest in Ousmane Dembele. Add a player that could step up like Mahrez did this season to our current setup and we could finish even higher IMHO.
 

Lilbaz

Just call me Baz
Apr 1, 2005
41,363
74,893
At lot of transfers don't work out, the reason we have had more success with lower fees is because we make many more signings in that price range. For every Alli there is a Dos Santos or Holtby or Routledge or Bostock, for every Dier a Stambouli or Capoue (attitude) or Fazio. The prices for Modric and Dembele were not too dissimilar to Paulinho and Bentley. Even Lamela is starting to come good (although not pricetag worthy yet). Yes Son wasn't as good as hoped but the cheaper N'Jie looks worse to me.

Yes we made some mistakes with the Bale money but I'm more confident in our current setup to highlight a suitable player. I think Lacazette would be one of those that could make the difference. Or someone like Gotze who could be a star again under someone like Poch.

Hopefully we are scouting some on the downlow, following on from our unsuccessful interest in Ousmane Dembele. Add a player that could step up like Mahrez did this season to our current setup and we could finish even higher IMHO.

Yet for the cheaper players if they don't make it we can regain most of the cost, then reinvest it. If a massive signing on big wages fails we lose most of the price and then may even have to subsidise their wage. Or even worse (ala bentley) keep them till their contract runs down.
 

SpartanSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2011
12,552
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Yet for the cheaper players if they don't make it we can regain most of the cost, then reinvest it. If a massive signing on big wages fails we lose most of the price and then may even have to subsidise their wage. Or even worse (ala bentley) keep them till their contract runs down.

The best example of this was a £5m signing in adebayor.

We do better than most at selling flops (Darren Bent for example was sold for profit I believe), and the last batch of flops probably earned us £100m+ of hungry breakthrough players that may have otherwise not got the chance.

I'm all for speculative cheap signings, but only for developing players, Stambouli sticks out to me as 'get what you paid for'. We have to try for the odd first XI ready player, we were fortunate to get Wanyama below market value.

Bringing it back though, get Janssen in this week and it's been a cracking start, after that I'm happy for the club to try and pull some rabbits out of hats between now and September in whatever way they see fit.
 

millsey

Official SC Numpty
Dec 8, 2005
8,735
11,504
At the end of the day id rather we bought jenssen for £15m and he scores 20 goals next season than spending £50m on muller who gets the same.
What? If Jansen scores 20 goals he will be worth 50 mill. If we thought he was going to do that he would our player by now
 

Spursidol

Well-Known Member
Sep 15, 2007
12,636
15,834
The best example of this was a £5m signing in adebayor.

We do better than most at selling flops (Darren Bent for example was sold for profit I believe), and the last batch of flops probably earned us £100m+ of hungry breakthrough players that may have otherwise not got the chance.

I'm all for speculative cheap signings, but only for developing players, Stambouli sticks out to me as 'get what you paid for'. We have to try for the odd first XI ready player, we were fortunate to get Wanyama below market value.

Bringing it back though, get Janssen in this week and it's been a cracking start, after that I'm happy for the club to try and pull some rabbits out of hats between now and September in whatever way they see fit.

So how did you regard the acquisitions of the cheap signings Alli and Dier.

Alli of course stepped straight into Spurs first team, Dier spent most of his first season as RB cover when his pedigree was clearly CB (and DM) before strutting his stuff as 1st choice DM in his second season ?

Were they cheap signings for development ?
 

SpartanSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2011
12,552
43,063
So how did you regard the acquisitions of the cheap signings Alli and Dier.

Alli of course stepped straight into Spurs first team, Dier spent most of his first season as RB cover when his pedigree was clearly CB (and DM) before strutting his stuff as 1st choice DM in his second season ?

Were they cheap signings for development ?

Yes, I'm pretty confident when we signed those players they weren't expected to be star players already. I put them in the same category as Walker, Lennon, Hudd and Rose, even Bale, ones we need to keep making but also ones we can't simply bank on, see Naughton, Gunter, Routledge, Reid, Bostock, etc...

I believe at one point these sort of signings were suggested to be from a separate budget entirely. (Halilovic summer maybe)

We were in a unique situation before where a lot of players with potential had a great opportunity to earn a place in this side (the cream rose), this isn't the case any more. They don't even get EL run outs (in 2016 at least).
 

Spursidol

Well-Known Member
Sep 15, 2007
12,636
15,834
Yes, I'm pretty confident when we signed those players they weren't expected to be star players already. I put them in the same category as Walker, Lennon, Hudd and Rose, even Bale, ones we need to keep making but also ones we can't simply bank on, see Naughton, Gunter, Routledge, Reid, Bostock, etc...

I believe at one point these sort of signings were suggested to be from a separate budget entirely. (Halilovic summer maybe)

We were in a unique situation before where a lot of players with potential had a great opportunity to earn a place in this side (the cream rose), this isn't the case any more. They don't even get EL run outs (in 2016 at least).

Maybe but perhaps our scouting is now better at assessing players who can (or might) make an instant impact (Alli and Dier being the prototypes).

But I'd agree we may also make signings who the scouts think may need longer to break through - but that's also fine by me.
 

Spurger King

can't smile without glue
Jul 22, 2008
43,881
95,147
Ossie Ardiles & Ricky Villa seem to have been forgotten too.

Considered mentioning him but that was well before my time. My entire knowledge of Ardiles amounts to him being in a world cup winning team, having a terrible singing voice, and playing a suicidal form of attacking football.
 

ljinko888

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2016
2,080
5,376
Juan Mata for 20m? I'd be happy with that.

If he reverts to the form he showed at Chelsea we'll have a hell of a player on our hands. Great technique, excellent passer and pops up with goals. He is not a fast, strong player but he could add another dimension with his skill-set.

Either way him going to Everton is such a weird destination. I'd have thought continental clubs would be all over that deal.
 

Flashspur

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2012
6,882
9,068
I think it depends who we sell. Vorm, fazio, de yedlin Carroll, bentaleb, mason, son, Chadli, Pritchard even Clinton if the right offer comes in. I doubt we will sell all of these players, but 4-5 could go.

I think 3-4 top class signings are needed. Man city man Utd and Chelsea are going to be a lot stronger next season. Top 4 won't be easy next year.

Sorry...4-5 could go? You are kidding right? We have a paper thin squad as it is.
 

Flashspur

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2012
6,882
9,068
Not sure what the wtf and doh ratings are for. Toby, alli and dier were not marquee signings when we got them.
We scouted and got good deals. Toby had done well at soton but was a bench warmer for atletico. Alli and dier were only just getting on the radar.
I'd be happy with low key signings that can prove themselves. We don't have to go for world famous players that would cost a fortune in transfer fee and wages and have just as much chance of not working out.

Perhaps in defense and MF but not strikers...there is a dearth of good strikers worldwide that is why Ighalo is 38m and Troy Deeney 25m etc. Crazy stupid prices yes, but plausible in the circumstances.
 
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