The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - THE GOAT'S HAT-TRICK! 25th July 2014

[Yid-ol]

Are stats important or not on SC this week?

I asked a handful of people, 20% said yes, 30 % said maybe 21% said no, and 29% said goat.

 

[DaSpurs]

He's only bloody 18. No player is fully developed physically by that age. I'd much rather a player with technical ability at 18 who needs to bulk up than a physical freak with an awful first touch.

Yeah, I should have mentioned "at the moment" in there somewhere, because reading back that post does appear a bit ridiculous considering his age.

That having been said though, from what I've seen, he does not seem the aggressive type to get stuck in. I may be entirely wrong, but even were he to fill out with age I'm still not sure he'll be the "physical type" I was alluding to. He should be showing signs of that by now even at his age, and I just don't see it whatsoever as of yet. I get he's going to be timid in such circumstances, but he's still just too much so from what I've seen. Point is, I think it much more likely he ends up at defensive mid rather than CB.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Milos was a DM at Basle before coming to Spurs and playing as a CB fo a couple of years in the NextGen u19 series (after looking pretty good as a old CB playing in a pre-season against I think Brighton under HR) before reverting back to being a DM in Spurs u21's

He does pretty well i both positions - although might struggle to be a topo CB as I guess he's 5' 11'' so slightly short. However reads the game very well to make up for any shortfalls elsewhere.

But what did you think was his 2nd position ?

I like this. Some of the best CB's I've seen over the years have played as CM's.

 

[Norvern Munkey]

Yeah, I should have mentioned "at the moment" in there somewhere, because reading back that post does appear a bit ridiculous considering his age.

That having been said though, from what I've seen, he does not seem the aggressive type to get stuck in. I may be entirely wrong, but even were he to fill out with age I'm still not sure he'll be the "physical type" I was alluding to. He should be showing signs of that by now even at his age, and I just don't see it whatsoever as of yet. I get he's going to be timid in such circumstances, but he's still just too much so from what I've seen. Point is, I think it much more likely he ends up at defensive mid rather than CB.

Think Its too early to judge him, 2 years of loans to the lower leagues before we will find out whether he will cut It...

 

[DaSpurs]

Think Its too early to judge him, 2 years of loans to the lower leagues before we will find out whether he will cut It...

Yeah I figured I'd get a response like this, and I don't blame you. Hoped I made it clear I too agree it's too early to make complete judgements, but simply weighing in on my take of an 18 year old in relation to other players at his age and in his position.

 

[spurs9]

He's 6 feet as far as I know. It sounds like nitpicking, I know, but margins are of quite some importance. A few centimetres might make all the difference. In other words, just as tall as Chiriches. IMO, the kid is primarily a CB. That doesn't change the fact that we need some good signings, and juicy CB-ITK soon.

Veljkovic see's himself as a DMC than can play CB rather than the other way round.

“I’ve always seen myself as a defensive midfielder,” the Switzerland-born youngster explained. “But I’ve played centre-back loads of times and I think it’s good to play both positions.

http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/news/versatility-is-key-says-milos-200614/

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

Veljkovic see's himself as a DMC than can play CB rather than the other way round.

“I’ve always seen myself as a defensive midfielder,” the Switzerland-born youngster explained. “But I’ve played centre-back loads of times and I think it’s good to play both positions.

http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/news/versatility-is-key-says-milos-200614/

Yeah, well that's about HIS opinion, I wrote abut my opinion on him. I see myself as a poet, sadly, that doesn't mean that I am one.
Is there any ITK other than possibly price about why we backed off from Lovren? Given the indications on what Liverpool got accepted, I'm a bit surprised.

 

[fatpiranha]

I like Schneiderlin. He's an intelligent footballer who knows Poch's system and would be good alongside Capoue in our midfield.

The problem is buying off of a club who don't want or need to sell. He might be worth £20M at a push but for that sort of money there are more talented players out there. For comparison Porto spent €8M on Hector Herrera last season who is the same age as MS, performs a similar role and is IMHO a better player and proven at the highest level.

Schneiderlin is good but he's not £20M+ good.

 

[sak11]

you're forgetting chris perry at 5'9 too

And Jose Dominguez at 4'10 .... Oops wrong game. Sorry.

 

[Mr Pink]

I like Schneiderlin. He's an intelligent footballer who knows Poch's system and would be good alongside Capoue in our midfield.

The problem is buying off of a club who don't want or need to sell. He might be worth £20M at a push but for that sort of money there are more talented players out there. For comparison Porto spent €8M on Hector Herrera last season who is the same age as MS, performs a similar role and is IMHO a better player and proven at the highest level.

Schneiderlin is good but he's not £20M+ good.

This is what I just don't get though.

How do you put a figure on what he's worth to Pochettino? Its his vision in terms of the team he's trying to build and the style he's trying to implement.

If he sees him as integral who cares what price we have to pay? I mean that in the sense that Levy worry about the financials. We should be much more concerned that Pochettino gets in who he wants not what the exact figure amounts to.

 

[nayimfrom50]

Sorry but 20m plus for MSchneid? No chance- he isn't that much better than what we have in that area. While everyone has their favourites Sandro, Capoue, Bentaleb, Dembele and Paulinho is not a bad selection by any means. Add Carroll and Holtby to that too. Jesus they just need coaching to a system.
As for 25m for Griezmann.. Again not convinced. Do we really need that type of player? Decent as he is. I'd argue we're well enough stocked given Lamela's fitness, Erickson's form etc.
I'd far rather we chucked that cash at Lukaku. Raw and at times a lump but he could be the game changer we have lacked for a long time.
Oh, and a centre half/leader of course. Controversial, but I'd have signed Rio....

 

[Disconosebleed]

If he sees him as integral who cares what price we have to pay?

Because from having seen a lot of football it's reasonable to suggest that there are better players available for smaller fees, and having a vague idea of how much Spurs have to spend it's reasonable to worry that overspending on Schneiderlin might hamper our abilities to strengthen in other, weaker areas of the side?

 

[Gedson100]

When we sold Modric & immediately paid Dembele's release clause of £15m, that seemed a fair enough deal & price.

Two years on, what value a premium central midfielder from a non top-6 club, as Dembele was, such as Schneiderlin?

Factor in increased prices due to daft TV money & suddenly £20m seems the going rate.

Whether Chief Dan sees it that way is a moot point.

 

[ShaunL84]

Rather go in for Moutinho If Schneirderlin is around £27 million.

 

[chinaman]

I like this. Some of the best CB's I've seen over the years have played as CM's.

And our King became a much better CD after playing half a season at CM under Hoddle.

 

[Mr Pink]

Because from having seen a lot of football it's reasonable to suggest that there are better players available for smaller fees, and having a vague idea of how much Spurs have to spend it's reasonable to worry that overspending on Schneiderlin might hamper our abilities to strengthen in other, weaker areas of the side?

You honestly think Pochettino and Levy wouldn't be capable of working out if getting Schneiderlin was going to compromise other areas of the team...

Sorry the managers judgement is more important than what you, I or any other fan thinks. Its his vision and his methods and ideas that count - and that obviously applies to who he wants to get in, so citing there are better players out there for smaller fees counts for shit I'm afraid, unless you're picking and building the team that is.

 

[Disconosebleed]

You honestly think Pochettino and Levy wouldn't be capable of working out if getting Schneiderlin was going to compromise other areas of the team...

Sorry the managers judgement is more important than what you, I or any other fan thinks. Its his vision and his methods and ideas that count - and that obviously applies to who he wants to get in, so citing there are better players out there for smaller fees counts for shit I'm afraid.

As fatpiranha already hinted at, Porto are one of a few teams (Atletico and Dortmund the most notable others) who consistently unearth top players for low fees. Herrera was one of the stars of the World Cup up to the point that Mexico got knocked out, and will make a huge for Porto when he leaves. He cost less than half (possibly less than a third) of what Schneiderlin will cost. How is there no value in making that point? And if not, what IS worth discussing? We're all pissing into the wind here, nothing we say has any bearing on the club's decisions, so...close the forums down? Or just carry on enjoying the debate on its own merits?

 

[THFCSPURS19]

Interesting development which could be good for us. It looks like Arsenal will be signing Callum Chambers (£7m-16m being mentioned) and some Arsenal fans are speculating that this could mean that they won't go after Schneiderlin. Fingers crossed.

 

[Yid1987]

Interesting development which could be good for us. It looks like Arsenal will be signing Callum Chambers (£7m-16m being mentioned) and some Arsenal fans are speculating that this could mean that they won't go after Schneiderlin. Fingers crossed.

Why would this mean they won't go for Schneiderlin? Chambers is a RB!

 

[Mr Pink]

As fatpiranha already hinted at, Porto are one of a few teams (Atletico and Dortmund the most notable others) who consistently unearth top players for low fees. Herrera was one of the stars of the World Cup up to the point that Mexico got knocked out, and will make a huge for Porto when he leaves. He cost less than half (possibly less than a third) of what Schneiderlin will cost. How is there no value in making that point? And if not, what IS worth discussing? We're all pissing into the wind here, nothing we say has any bearing on the club's decisions, so...close the forums down? Or just carry on enjoying the debate on its own merits?

I'm not saying there's no value in at such, I'm just emphasising the point that a player a new manager really wants to bring in, for many reasons, shouldn't be dismissed as easily as just saying I wouldn't pay x amount for. To me that's just being way too dismissive and I don't think many who state as such are thinking of the potential true value behind such a signing. For instance the fact that Poch knows this player, has developed him, trusts him, and was obviously a crucial component in his system at Southampton.

Even though I think he'll get time its still a very pressurised job. Having Schneiderlin could speed up our transition in terms of playing style which could release some pressure.

I just don't think its as simple as saying, nah he's not worth that in a flippant sort of way, but each to their own.

If you don't fine, we just disagree.