The dilemma with Dier

[2bearis2do]

Of our starting X1 - Dier seems to fit into the either great or needs a kick up the backside camp - Here's what Ledley says...

Read the full article at 90mins

 

[yid-down-under]

His best position in cm by a mile.

 

[alamo]

Amazes me that there is continual news speculation over someone coming in for Dier and yet Wanyama never gets a mention. The latter had a blinding season and I can't think of a team he wouldn't walk into.

 

[TottenhamMattSpur]

Love him. But he's only first 11 when we play 343
If it's 4231 he's behind Wanyama as the DM.

 

[Japhet]

Love him. But he's only first 11 when we play 343
If it's 4231 he's behind Wanyama as the DM.

The thing with Dier is that we don't stick to either formation when he plays. It's that versatility that makes him so important, plus I think Poch really likes him.

 

[Shadydan]

His versatility and mentality is why he's so important, the guy is a solider but he needs to improve his ability on and off the ball which he will in time.

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

Dier is possibly third pick in midfield and only a back up at CB. He has talent and i believe that Poch likes his adaptability, but at the moment he is a jack of all trades rather than the master of one.

 

[Lilbaz]

Dier is possibly third pick in midfield and only a back up at CB. He has talent and i believe that Poch likes his adaptability, but at the moment he is a jack of all trades rather than the master of one.

As japhet said, with him we can switch formations during the game. He gives the team fluidity in attack and defence.
With him we switch from 4231 to 343 to 3313. It makes us unpredictable and very hard to play against. We switch continuously through games attacking and defending.

He might not be the greatest cb or dm but doing both roles during a game he is very good.

 

[yid-down-under]

His best position in cm by a mile.

@davidmatzdorf- why spam my post? I thought you intelligent enough to at least provide an argument against my opinion

 

[jamesinashby]

Because of his versatility, he is constantly called on to step in ~ it is also possibly a reason why some consider he is more a jack of all trades rather than a master in one and why he is a constant inclusion every week. I feel having someone with this ability is a massive bonus in a team. As one man he is cover for 3 or 4 players which we don't need to buy in. For me he is worth his weight in gold.

COYS

 

[davidmatzdorf]

@davidmatzdorf- why spam my post? I thought you intelligent enough to at least provide an argument against my opinion

I don't "disagree". The post is "spam": no content. It's an unsupported statement of opinion with no argument. That's basically spam. No one cares what my "opinion" is, unless I post an argument to explain and support it.

 

[dannythomas]

As japhet said, with him we can switch formations during the game. He gives the team fluidity in attack and defence.
With him we switch from 4231 to 343 to 3313. It makes us unpredictable and very hard to play against. We switch continuously through games attacking and defending.

He might not be the greatest cb or dm but doing both roles during a game he is very good.

He can also do an efficient job at RB which is another reason that we don't have to buy a Walker replacement.

 

[yid-down-under]

I don't "disagree". The post is "spam": no content. It's an unsupported statement of opinion with no argument. That's basically spam. No one cares what my "opinion" is, unless I post an argument to explain and support it.

Then ask me to elaborate...........

Two seasons ago dier had a blinder in cm, and was along with alli, one of the finds of the season for us.

We got waynama as further cover in cm and initially dier was among him until dembele returned.

After that he was used to cover injuries to both our first choice cbs and then in the back three, but often whilst at the back got turned easily and exposed on one in ones.

All this time waynama remained in cm, allowing him to develop the role as dier had the previous season

 

[Shadydan]

Then ask me to elaborate...........

Two seasons ago dier had a blinder in cm, and was along with alli, one of the finds of the season for us.

We got waynama as further cover in cm and initially dier was among him until dembele returned.

After that he was used to cover injuries to both our first choice cbs and then in the back three, but often whilst at the back got turned easily and exposed on one in ones.

All this time waynama remained in cm, allowing him to develop the role as dier had the previous season

I think we've moved on as a team with Wanyama in midfield, we press better, we retain the ball better and our ball recycling is better, I think what Dier has over Wanyama is long passes but I think we look more comfortable with Wanyama in there especially when we're put under pressure.

Dier in my mind is a better centre back and that's where his future lies, I think the mistakes he made last season were magnified by the fact that we had two of the best defenders playing next to him but IMO if he carries on playing there he will get much better and in time turn into a very fine centre back.

 

[Maske2g]

Dier's best position by far is centre midfield, he isn't as good as Wanyama or Dembele, and when he played with Wanyama, it coincided with our worst run of form of last season. They do not compliment each other at all.

If you could name Spurs best 12 players last year, most spurs fans would have Dier and Walker in 11th and 12th in one order or another.

Lloris, Rose, Toby, Jan, Wanyama, Dembele, Son, Eriksen, Alli, Kane. Any order you like, I take them as better performers.

What he has going for him to our benefit, is that he does a fair job playing next to Toby and Jan as well, and can play Right back, where he actually has a good delivery. But he isn't a 60 million pound player in any one position.

If you could have said we get 100 million for them two, I would never have believed you, and it could very well have happened.

 

[davidmatzdorf]

I don't think there's a game that goes by when Dier doesn't play defensive midfield some of the time and central defence some of the time, irrespective of his nominal starting position.

It's reminiscent of the arguments [on every bloody match thread, before kickoff] about whether Eriksen or Lamela or Dele or Son should play as a "no. 10" in the centre, with two others playing wide. Once the game is underway they rotate all over the place and cover each other.

Similarly, we have these interminable jousts about 4-2-3-1 vs. 3-4-2-1. In practice, we play both "formations" in every game, depending on the state of the transition from minute to minute - and the scoreline.

Formations and positions, as fans debate them, are semi-obsolete. Pochettino's whole "philosophy" has been based on positional flexibility, from the time he arrived at Southampton and probably before - which is one reason why he rates Dier more highly than many fans.

The notional/nominal starting "position" of our midfield and defensive players - well, the whole team except for the goalkeeper - is just a guide. But people treat it as if it's ironclad and thus to blame or to credit for failure and success. It's an entirely specious discussion.

 

[DCSPUR]

I don't think there's a game that goes by when Dier doesn't play defensive midfield some of the time and central defence some of the time, irrespective of his nominal starting position.

It's reminiscent of the arguments [on every bloody match thread, before kickoff] about whether Eriksen or Lamela or Dele or Son should play as a "no. 10" in the centre, with two others playing wide. Once the game is underway they rotate all over the place and cover each other.

Similarly, we have these interminable jousts about 4-2-3-1 vs. 3-4-2-1. In practice, we play both "formations" in every game, depending on the state of the transition from minute to minute - and the scoreline.

Formations and positions, as fans debate them, are semi-obsolete. Pochettino's whole "philosophy" has been based on positional flexibility, from the time he arrived at Southampton and probably before - which is one reason why he rates Dier more highly than many fans.

The notional/nominal starting "position" of our midfield and defensive players - well, the whole team except for the goalkeeper - is just a guide. But people treat it as if it's ironclad and thus to blame or to credit for failure and success. It's an entirely specious discussion.

well said...and just to add, it makes me doubt the summer media claims re: Dier wants to move to Man U to play the DM position

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

As japhet said, with him we can switch formations during the game. He gives the team fluidity in attack and defence.
With him we switch from 4231 to 343 to 3313. It makes us unpredictable and very hard to play against. We switch continuously through games attacking and defending.

He might not be the greatest cb or dm but doing both roles during a game he is very good.

Somebody has to be dropped to make way for him, and that in general weakens the team. If i am wrong on this who would you drop?

 

[yid-down-under]

I don't think there's a game that goes by when Dier doesn't play defensive midfield some of the time and central defence some of the time, irrespective of his nominal starting position.

It's reminiscent of the arguments [on every bloody match thread, before kickoff] about whether Eriksen or Lamela or Dele or Son should play as a "no. 10" in the centre, with two others playing wide. Once the game is underway they rotate all over the place and cover each other.

Similarly, we have these interminable jousts about 4-2-3-1 vs. 3-4-2-1. In practice, we play both "formations" in every game, depending on the state of the transition from minute to minute - and the scoreline.

Formations and positions, as fans debate them, are semi-obsolete. Pochettino's whole "philosophy" has been based on positional flexibility, from the time he arrived at Southampton and probably before - which is one reason why he rates Dier more highly than many fans.

The notional/nominal starting "position" of our midfield and defensive players - well, the whole team except for the goalkeeper - is just a guide. But people treat it as if it's ironclad and thus to blame or to credit for failure and success. It's an entirely specious discussion.

I don't think there's a game that goes by when Dier doesn't play defensive midfield some of the time and central defence some of the time, irrespective of his nominal starting position.

It's reminiscent of the arguments [on every bloody match thread, before kickoff] about whether Eriksen or Lamela or Dele or Son should play as a "no. 10" in the centre, with two others playing wide. Once the game is underway they rotate all over the place and cover each other.

Similarly, we have these interminable jousts about 4-2-3-1 vs. 3-4-2-1. In practice, we play both "formations" in every game, depending on the state of the transition from minute to minute - and the scoreline.

Formations and positions, as fans debate them, are semi-obsolete. Pochettino's whole "philosophy" has been based on positional flexibility, from the time he arrived at Southampton and probably before - which is one reason why he rates Dier more highly than many fans.

The notional/nominal starting "position" of our midfield and defensive players - well, the whole team except for the goalkeeper - is just a guide. But people treat it as if it's ironclad and thus to blame or to credit for failure and success. It's an entirely specious discussion.

Much of what you say is completely correct, but even in flexable systems such as ours players have a brief.

As I said earlier diers performances two seasons ago when identified with the holding role, were better than last seasons with waynama also in the team.

 

[Lilbaz]

Somebody has to be dropped to make way for him, and that in general weakens the team. If i am wrong on this who would you drop?

I never said i'd drop anyone for him, just that he gives us fluidity.