The England Thread

[dondo]

Sorry, I forgot we are only allowed scapegoats from other clubs. Because that's all you were doing. What does Dier do better than Henderson that would improve a game like this? Better movement ? More incisive passing ? Quicker tempo ? More dynamic ?

Calling for Dier to play instead of Henderson is nothing but childish Spurs bias, and it's tedious.

Dier is better defensively, he tracks runners, is better positionally and he is stronger in the air and tackle

 

[mpickard2087]

Our midfield options shouldn't be Winks, Dier or Henderson though. We should have more than three players to choose from.

Dier, Henderson, Winks, Alli, Lallana, Barkley, Delph, Wilshere, even people like Drinkwater, Tom Carroll, Loftus-Cheek, Shelvey, Surman, even pensioners like Carrick, or those coming through at youth level led by the likes of Onomah.

That's just plucking some names off the top of my head. Most of those names might not be very exciting, they might indeed be bang average and will never amount to much, and most people would think 'wtf how are they international players?'..... But there are options out there to play people offering a mix of qualities in their proper positions and to attempt to play progressive, pass and move football whether we win, lose or draw but at least more aesthetically pleasing than the last few games (which is what the England set-up repeatedly tell us is the aim).

England still try and shoehorn 'the best' people in to the team, so you get silly unbalanced bollocks like three erratic wingers playing the other night, or similarly not making a choice between Alli/Rashford tonight and so putting them both in and having the same sort of (abilities and) flaws and tendencies in a crucial area of the pitch. England probably need to look further down the food chain and make logical selections until they ever get development paths sorted and players coming through, rather than trying to force square pegs into round holes.

 

[heelspurs]

Didn't Henderson create the best two chances in the match? The knock down for Alli when he was fouled for the penalty and the cross for Dele's header that he put wide.

Not disputing this. I am referring to the safe passing and overall turgid play. removing Henderson would open space for Winks to pass and drive into.

 

[Buggsy61]

I agree with Hoddle there. We struggle to break most teams down so we need to learn to play a different way.

Would much rather have Hoddle than Southgate next summer and that's genuinely with no pro Spurs bias. I think he knows how to set up a team better than Gareth. Hate to say it but I think we can already write the script for next summer.

 

[nailsy]

Dier, Henderson, Winks, Alli, Lallana, Barkley, Delph, Wilshere, even people like Drinkwater, Tom Carroll, Loftus-Cheek, Shelvey, Surman, even pensioners like Carrick, or those coming through at youth level led by the likes of Onomah.

That's just plucking some names off the top of my head. Most of those names might not be very exciting, they might indeed be bang average and will never amount to much, and most people would think 'wtf how are they international players?'..... But there are options out there to play people offering a mix of qualities in their proper positions and to attempt to play progressive, pass and move football whether we win, lose or draw but at least more aesthetically pleasing than the last few games (which is what the England set-up repeatedly tell us is the aim).

England still try and shoehorn 'the best' people in to the team, so you get silly unbalanced bollocks like three erratic wingers playing the other night, or similarly not making a choice between Alli/Rashford tonight and so putting them both in and having the same sort of (abilities and) flaws and tendencies tonight. England probably need to look further down the food chain and make logical selections until they ever get development paths sorted and players coming through, rather than trying to force square pegs into round holes.

Yeah, I meant in this squad rather than English players in general. I'd forgotten about The Ox and Livermore being in the squad though. I will say in Southgates defence that we've got a lot of injuries at the moment and the team would probably look quite different with Lallana in it.

I still haven't seen any sign of progress on the pitch since Southgate took over though. I'm sure a lot of us said we'd be willing to take a few defeats if it meant that we started to play with pride and purpose, but I haven't seen any of that yet.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I feel that this is a reason for Dier. Henderson carries the conceit that he is in fact a footballer when everyone can see he is not. His 'dynamism' does not include passing that is incisive nor accurate. Dier would at least sit and give Winks the security to roam and take chances.

Winks was doing that anyway, in a 2cm system against a bus park of mediocre footballers the last thing that England team needed was a CM in that two "sitting". It needed two players to be dynamic and take a little more risk, and at least Henderson does that a bit better than Dier and is used to playing a quick tempo, pressing system feeding fast forwards

 

[thinktank]

https://twitter.com/dreamteamfc/status/916040676713701376

Henderson.

 

[mpickard2087]

Yeah, I meant in this squad rather than English players in general. I'd forgotten about The Ox and Livermore being in the squad though. I will say in Southgates defence that we've got a lot of injuries at the moment and the team would probably look quite different with Lallana in it.

I still haven't seen any sign of progress on the pitch since Southgate took over though. I'm sure a lot of us said we'd be willing to take a few defeats if it meant that we started to play with pride and purpose, but I haven't seen any of that yet.

I too have sympathy with him as I have said before - there aren't many options at all in that No.10 role and an injury to Lallana leaves a massive hole.

But then I do blame Southgate for not working with what he has got/selected (as well as what's being coached - but that's a different topic). He carries on with the same approach regardless with little thought. When he's picked a load of erratic wingers who want space to run with, defensive midfielders, and central strikers, then how does he see them playing pass and move with fluidity? One thing I do agree with Glenn Hoddle about, as I said myself the other day after the game, is that, whether as a fan it's your ideal way of playing or not,with those players surely you sit deeper (appreciate that isn't easy to do against minnow teams) and look to play on the counter which is when these players have their best moments or old-fashioned wing play. But we just seemingly keep banging our heads against a brick wall expecting to eventually master it, despite all evidence to the contrary.

The England manager needs a lot more help from the whole of 'football' in this country, but the manager has also got to help himself and he isn't doing that.

 

[spursfan77]

I agree with Hoddle there. We struggle to break most teams down so we need to learn to play a different way.

I've more confidence in hoddle coaching these players than Southgate listening to his commentary and Southgate's interview.

 

[DiscoD1882]

I've more confidence in hoddle coaching these players than Southgate listening to his commentary and Southgate's interview.

I was thinking exactly this. Hoddles knows what he is talking about. And understands flair. And how to use it. Not these paint by numbers managers who are ruining team England. I want to gouge my eyes watching England for the last 10 years.

 

[Bobbins]

That was the worst England game I've seen since Thursday.

 

[Marty]

That was the worst England game I've seen since Thursday.

This was better than Thursday - not that that says much.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Dier is better defensively, he tracks runners, is better positionally and he is stronger in the air and tackle

Yeah, because that’s what that game needed, for England to be better defensively.

 

[riggi]

Well that's just rude...

 

[Johnny J]

Well that's just rude...

View attachment 33199

I don't get it.

 

[riggi]

I don't get it.

Because of the way he talks...

 

[Johnny J]

Because of the way he talks...

Oh OK. Lame tweet.

 

[TheHoddleWaddle]

Oh OK. Lame tweet.

Quackers.

 

[spursfan77]

I was thinking exactly this. Hoddles knows what he is talking about. And understands flair. And how to use it. Not these paint by numbers managers who are ruining team England. I want to gouge my eyes watching England for the last 10 years.

I've never been one to advocate his appointment as he's been out the game for too long but maybe that's what we need. Someone who understands the game and not Southgate who is just another manual coached manager appointed by Ashworth and his jobs for the boys network.

 

[dondo]

Yeah, because that’s what that game needed, for England to be better defensively.

What does/did Henderson offer going forward?
Team always play with at least one dm no Matter who they play
For me it's either dier or Henderson, not both