The England Thread

[kmk]

England really need all players fit then a front four of Kane, Dele, Lallana and Rashford would be great to see. I would have Dier and Winks in the central midfield roles

I'm not convinced that Rashford is good enough to start yet. He is a good option to have on the bench.

 

[nailsy]

I don’t understand really why players like Cook, Onomah and even TOB or McEchran shouldn’t be given a game as reward for winning world cups. Clearly all are more talented and more likely to be the future than Livermore.

How can the FA criticise clubs for not giving the recent WC winning players a pathway when for decades England managers haven’t.

Best player out there last night for England was the youngest.

Should you be looking at the future or concentrating on the now though? Look at previous tournaments where players like Walcott or Shaw were taken because they were the future and experienced players like Defoe and Cole were left behind. Did that really help us? Livermore is a limited player, but we don't have many options at DM if Dier gets injured or suspended so it's fair enough that he's in the squad. Who plays the DM role in the U21's? Is he ready to step up? If Southgate thinks the players are ready I'm sure he'll give them a chance, he's doing pretty well with that side of things at the moment.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Should you be looking at the future or concentrating on the now though? Look at previous tournaments where players like Walcott or Shaw were taken because they were the future and experienced players like Defoe and Cole were left behind. Did that really help us? Livermore is a limited player, but we don't have many options at DM if Dier gets injured or suspended so it's fair enough that he's in the squad. Who plays the DM role in the U21's? Is he ready to step up? If Southgate thinks the players are ready I'm sure he'll give them a chance, he's doing pretty well with that side of things at the moment.

They were poor examples when I heard someone else give them this week and are still poor now. Of course it was stupid taking Walcott, he’d never played at senior level, that’s why I’m saying play some of the kids now, against Germany and France etc, see how they do. Get them that experience. Go into the WC with some a different mentality.

The best player on the pitch against Germany was the young debutant Loftus-Cheek.

As far as cm/dm goes, England already have Henderson or Dier who can do it, they could also try Cook who won the U20 wc and has PL experience. Or they could be really brave and try Onomah, who was outstanding in the u20 wc final as a playmaking DM.

Look at what Germanydid last summer, won the confed cup with their U21’s and the U21 euro with their reserve U21/u20 side. Who’s more likely to go further next WC?

 

[spursfan77]

I'm not convinced that Rashford is good enough to start yet. He is a good option to have on the bench.

I'm still not quite sure what Rashford is good at. I know he's still young but he just seems to lose the ball or run down blind alleys every time I see him play.

 

[WiganSpur]

Would love to see Southgate be brave:

Pickford

Dier
Stones
Maguire

Trippier
Loftus Cheek
Winks
Rose

Dele
Sterling

Kane


Henderson, Cahill et al, just no, please no.

He'll go for Walker, but the understanding Trippier has with Kane is immense.

Maybe our best team imo, but a very strong argument for Lallana in there somewhere, depends on the opposition I suppose.

 

[kmk]

Maybe our best team imo, but a very strong argument for Lallana in there somewhere, depends on the opposition I suppose.

Lallana with Alli & Kane is quite similar to our tried and trusted trio of Eriksen, Alli & Kane.

Lallana is another disciple of Poch and should be on the same wavelength as Alli & Kane.

I would like Dier and Winks in CM against stronger teams with Rose & Trippier as wingbacks.

Kyle Walker could play on the right of a 3 man central defence.

 

[nailsy]

They were poor examples when I heard someone else give them this week and are still poor now. Of course it was stupid taking Walcott, he’d never played at senior level, that’s why I’m saying play some of the kids now, against Germany and France etc, see how they do. Get them that experience. Go into the WC with some a different mentality.

The best player on the pitch against Germany was the young debutant Loftus-Cheek.

As far as cm/dm goes, England already have Henderson or Dier who can do it, they could also try Cook who won the U20 wc and has PL experience. Or they could be really brave and try Onomah, who was outstanding in the u20 wc final as a playmaking DM.

Look at what Germanydid last summer, won the confed cup with their U21’s and the U21 euro with their reserve U21/u20 side. Who’s more likely to go further next WC?

You're basically agreeing with Southgate then as that's exactly what he's doing - giving the young players a chance to see what they can do - but you're still calling him out because he's selected Livermore who you don't like. Southgate keeps getting accused of a lack of imagination and of picking the same old players, but there were six or seven players in the England team against Germany that have received their debut under him.

Walcott and Shaw aren't poor examples, they're real world examples that show that taking kids to tournaments for experience won't necessarily pay off. Obviously you've got players like Owen who were ready at a young age so no one's saying don't take the youngsters if they're ready.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

You're basically agreeing with Southgate then as that's exactly what he's doing - giving the young players a chance to see what they can do - but you're still calling him out because he's selected Livermore who you don't like. Southgate keeps getting accused of a lack of imagination and of picking the same old players, but there were six or seven players in the England team against Germany that have received their debut under him.

Walcott and Shaw aren't poor examples, they're real world examples that show that taking kids to tournaments for experience won't necessarily pay off. Obviously you've got players like Owen who were ready at a young age so no one's saying don't take the youngsters if they're ready.

Yes, I am agreeing with Southgate when he picks the best young players, if you read my post on the previous page you'll see me crediting him with that. I just wish he'd picked one of the young U21/U20 players instead of Livermore. Livermore is a really turgid footballer and hasn't brought anything to that role that any number of the tournament winning players from the younger groups couldn't have brought, but with more potential to improve. I even suggested Carroll as a better alternative and to that you could add Wiltshire - with more progressive and positive players.

I don't think anyone has criticised Southgate for picking young players, either on here or even in the media have they ?

My biggest problem with Southgate is that his teams, including his U21 teams, lack much evidence of the type of coached tactical ethos of style or approach that he keeps spouting.

Walcott and Shaw were bad examples because they aren't examples of how to integrate and develop younger layers into a team, they were examples - especially Walcott - of players just parachuted into a tournament, with no prior integration. And they are two examples in 50 years - I could give you a hundred where players should have been integrated and taken to tournaments who would have been more useful than the senior players, often who were 3/3 years past their - usually abject - best.

 

[spursfan77]

Paulinho playing for Brazil. Really interested to see if he's still world class at hiding from the ball.

 

[wishkah]

Really sad it’s not our best vs their best. I guess that means some of the players have a chance which is always what we want. But some of the squad really shouldn’t be there (yet) and you can’t blame Southgate for it.

Would love Dele Kane and winks to have a crack

 

[kaz Hirai]

Really sad it’s not our best vs their best. I guess that means some of the players have a chance which is always what we want. But some of the squad really shouldn’t be there (yet) and you can’t blame Southgate for it.

Would love Dele Kane and winks to have a crack

I'm glad they're well away from England and fully rested for arsenal

 

[LeSoupeKitchen]

Brazil have really got a tasty team together after the last world cup.

 

[wishkah]

Didn’t Helga Postiga go a season without scoring for us then come on for Portugal to score against England?

#PaulinhoWatch

 

[spursfan77]

I'm sorry but I think rashford is useless. Gives the ball away every time he gets it. Seems to have no end product on the whole.

 

[wishkah]

I'm sorry but I think rashford is useless. Gives the ball away every time he gets it. Seems to have no end product on the whole.

We get excited in England when players take other players on. If they fail we call it a risk worth taking and laud them if they beat a man. In other counties it’s more natural so look at intelligence. Interesting methinks

 

[Spurrific]

It's probably true, Chelsea have some serious talent but don't give their young players a chance to showcase it.

It’s not probably true at all. If Loftus Cheek, or any of Chelsea’s youngsters were anywhere near as good as Dele - they’d get minutes.

 

[Cornpattbuck]

Jake Livermore maybe unfashionable and probably not long term international class but he's still a decent player. Proud of him, especially with all the shit he's been through.

 

[Shadydan]

It’s not probably true at all. If Loftus Cheek, or any of Chelsea’s youngsters were anywhere near as good as Dele - they’d get minutes.

Yeah...that's the entire point lol

How do you think Delle Alli got as good as he is now...?

 

[spursfan77]

I know we are a limited team nowadays but our midfield is awful. Nobody in there can pass. The team doesn't thread together well. It's why Winks is going to get in the starting XI. I absolutely hate to say it but if wilshere stays fit for the season (he won't) then Southgate should try them both in central midfield with Dier in the next friendlies. If not that twat then at least Dele would offer more in there.

 

[Chinaspur]

Really sad it’s not our best vs their best. I guess that means some of the players have a chance which is always what we want. But some of the squad really shouldn’t be there (yet) and you can’t blame Southgate for it.

Would love Dele Kane and winks to have a crack

Casemiro requested that they be rested for this game...